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Replying To arock: ""but money pays for the multiple of qualified youth coaches now plying their trades across Dublin, it pays for the strength and conditioning programmes, the skills coaches, the nutritionist and dieticians, the psychologists and physiotherapists all of which help raw talents deliver fully on their potential"
Apart from the FACT this applies to every county, I don't know who these Youth Coaches are, you mean the ones paid for by the clubs/county board? You see i drive a lot around the country and what really amazes me is the amount of GAA clubs outside the capitol with superb facilites. So Dublin invests its money and capitol in participation and quality participation at that at all levels, it seems to me other counties place far greater emphasis and importance on capitol projects. Centres of excellence with tumbleweed swirling around them (we can all exaggerate to make a point no?), millions spent on stadiums with no games for them, beautiful clubhouses, manicured pitches with no teams to fill them. Maybe, just maybe counties will take a long hard look at themselves and say "we got this gig all wrong". Dublin have done at Inter-county level what Slaughtneil have at club level. The template is there, it is proven, but you have no bodies to invest in so you invest in grass and concrete, you have no desire to do the hard work. Most of the better coaches in Dublin BTW are country folk. Maybe this is why no one in Dublin takes anything you have to say seriously." Dublin invests in games development and participation instead of capital projects because it doesn't need facilities. They're already provided. Other counties don't have that luxury so they have to invest in their infrastructure.
Kildare nearly lost home advantage due to the condition of their stadium last year. And Meath have been busy raising money to renovate Páirc Tailteann. Lots of other counties in similar predicaments. They have to split the investment.
HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 03/07/2019 12:50:12
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Croke Park is a millstone for Dublin? I have read some pretty hilariously misinformed comments on here over the years about Dublin funding but that just about takes the biscuit! I presume that was tongue in cheek?
FWIW a €100m plus bill for your own stadium would be a millstone. The use of a state of the art stadium for a nominal fee is not.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/07/2019 13:03:44
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Replying To moc.dna: "Unbelievable that John Horan is out again defending the inequitable funding which has been proven beyond a doubt. Surely this is the role of the Dublin County Board CEO John Costello & not that of the Uachtaran of the Association who is elected to represent all ! Any comparisons between individual counties is only whitewashing, it must be looked at a nationwide basis. The problem is no one is willing to challenge them or stand up as most elected officials are too busy worrying about their own political ambitions & funding within the Association. If they want analysis let them have independent auditors appointed from Sport Ireland, not from within that they can influence. A certain western seaboard county had a GAA appointed investigation into gate money & credit card mismanagement, the details or actions or consequences to individuals never made public. Let's hope that he doesn't appoint the officials from both Croke Park & Cork County Board involved in the PUC story, to this or he will come up with two different figures, just a couple of Million in the difference. Outcome will be GAA appointed investigation, finds no major difference in funding no matter what way it's played, all the sports journalists were wrong, time to move on, lift the carpet, now where's that brush !" Horan, when discussing Dublin in his supposedly neutral capacity as GAA president refers to them as 'us'. That will tell you all you need to know about his agenda.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/07/2019 13:11:44
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Croke Park is a millstone for Dublin? I have read some pretty hilariously misinformed comments on here over the years about Dublin funding but that just about takes the biscuit! I presume that was tongue in cheek?
FWIW a €100m plus bill for your own stadium would be a millstone. The use of a state of the art stadium for a nominal fee is not." I would acknowledge the playing advantage Corke Park brings, we are very familiar with it etc its defacto our home ground, its part of Dublin and vice versa. Also the the two S8 games are wrong.
Its a hypothetical argument of course, but we are caught in a space between Donnycarney and Drumcondra, really neither suiting our needs.
I think many premium tickets and corporate boxes for Croke park are sold with Dublin on the ticket, equally GAA commercial sponsorship. there has to be a motivation for prioritizing Dublni the re and that it in my opinion.
If Dublin developed their own ground, were able to implement a Cairde Maegho system, sell their own premium and corporate ticketing and cultivate their own sponsorship, may be even naming rights over the long term and realise its own commercial value.
I personally believe we woud be in a better position before you look at the normal organic benefits in terms of basic attendances and public or corporate amenities that a stadium like that may generate.
That would be my opinion on it, i believe that why Dublin have explored the opportunity in the past and went down, as flat as a Dublin five in a row in Tralee, with the GAA.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/07/2019 13:40:47
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I see Horan, referencing population per head in relation to the GAA funding model, perhaps my population to GDF model isnt as wide of the mark as i acknowledged and is indeed used by the GAA however loosely.
That model gives us this breakdown of GDF, per head of population:
Monaghan GDF 124.000, Population of Monaghan 60.483 = 2.05 per head.
Dublin GDF 1.3 mill, population 1.34 mill, ratio = 97 cent per head.
Kerry GDF 197.600 euro, population of Kerry 147.000, ratio = 1.34 euro per head.
Mayo GDF 134.29 euro, population of Mayo, 130.5k, ratio = 1.02 euro per head.
Tyrone GDF 119.000 euro, population 177.9k = 66 cent per head
Galway GDF 184.4k euro, population 258.0k = 71cent per head.
Donegal GDF 130.2k euro, population 159.1k = 81 cent per head.
Kildare GDF 341.3k euro, population 222.5k = 1.53 euro per head
Roscommon GDF, 146k euro, population 66.5k = 2.2 euro per head.
Cork GDF, 249k euro, population 542k = 45 cent per head.
Meath GDF, 367.4k, population 195.0 = 1.88 euro per head.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/07/2019 13:51:50
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John Horan wants an analysis of the funding? Are you kidding me!!! I don't think it's that complicated John. A simple balance sheet demonstrating all funding distribution per county should suffice.
'' But if you actually did an analysis, where is the penetration in the schools which a lot of the coaching money in Dublin is going into and that goes into camogie and ladies football as well. So that's where it is.''
What the hell is he on about. That's a nonsense argument.
If there was a bit of honesty on the subject it would help stop the anger other counties are feeling. Yes, the GAA got the balance of funding to Dublin wrong. No, it is not the only reason for the success of Dublin. Dublin put in place professional administrators and started harnessing the vast population and wealth they had. Other counties such as Meath are run by dodgy County Boards who are not capable of providing a framework for Meath footballers to flourish.
A professional administrator would need to be appointed to turn around the fortunes of the likes of Meath, which will take decades to rectify. It is highly unlikely to happen. There's a myriad of issues that need to be solved in order to stop the rot.
In terms of the overall structure of the game, a genuine review of the structure of counties and provinces is needed along with a rebalancing of funds including sponsorship monies. Rejigging the championship will not help struggling counties. It's elitism which the GAA is suppose to oppose.
HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 03/07/2019 14:26:27
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Replying To TheUsername: "I would acknowledge the playing advantage Corke Park brings, we are very familiar with it etc its defacto our home ground, its part of Dublin and vice versa. Also the the two S8 games are wrong.
Its a hypothetical argument of course, but we are caught in a space between Donnycarney and Drumcondra, really neither suiting our needs.
I think many premium tickets and corporate boxes for Croke park are sold with Dublin on the ticket, equally GAA commercial sponsorship. there has to be a motivation for prioritizing Dublni the re and that it in my opinion.
If Dublin developed their own ground, were able to implement a Cairde Maegho system, sell their own premium and corporate ticketing and cultivate their own sponsorship, may be even naming rights over the long term and realise its own commercial value.
I personally believe we woud be in a better position before you look at the normal organic benefits in terms of basic attendances and public or corporate amenities that a stadium like that may generate.
That would be my opinion on it, i believe that why Dublin have explored the opportunity in the past and went down, as flat as a Dublin five in a row in Tralee, with the GAA." There may be a good argument for a 30-35k seater stadium in Dublin or outside it somewhere as with falling attendances Croker is just too big now until you get to the semi finals in all honesty. What it would cost and the knock on effect of less games in Croker would be difficult to gauge without a much more detailed look.
Tbh I can't even imagine what developing a new high spec stadium in dublin would cost with land acquisition and the insane development costs we have now. You are probably looking at double PUC. I'd be very sceptical as to whether the numbers would work for any likely stakeholder.
I think most counties would be happy enough with Dublin's setup right now. There are a lot of county boards looking at dilapidated stadiums and wondering what to do with them as redevelopment is probably not viable with the current championship format. Cork is a good example of what can go wrong. It's a very complicated issue.
For me the future long term should be a summer based league with games spread around the country. Can't happen without the infrastructure though.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/07/2019 14:49:38
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "There may be a good argument for a 30-35k seater stadium in Dublin or outside it somewhere as with falling attendances Croker is just too big now until you get to the semi finals in all honesty. What it would cost and the knock on effect of less games in Croker would be difficult to gauge without a much more detailed look.
Tbh I can't even imagine what developing a new high spec stadium in dublin would cost with land acquisition and the insane development costs we have now. You are probably looking at double PUC. I'd be very sceptical as to whether the numbers would work for any likely stakeholder.
I think most counties would be happy enough with Dublin's setup right now. There are a lot of county boards looking at dilapidated stadiums and wondering what to do with them as redevelopment is probably not viable with the current championship format. Cork is a good example of what can go wrong. It's a very complicated issue.
For me the future long term should be a summer based league with games spread around the country. Can't happen without the infrastructure though." I wouldn't disagree, with much of that Gerry.
We always have hardcore support in the region, of 25-30k and a stadium fitting in around that number is fitting so i dont think we would need anything of the scale of PUC as regional stadium, something like Nowlan Park would be ideal for us and was bear pit when we there there. Id like to see it developed i suspect the DCB would as well for the reasons i mentioned. But realistically i doubt its going to happen for the same reasons i mentioned.
I would be of the persuasion at looking at capital projects as long term projects, all capital projects are massively expensive but need to be built with 100 years and future proofing in mind and eventually pay for themselves (i believe PUC will many times over eventually) and payment/debt/capital should be very well planned to state the obvious.
You are right when you say the cost of a site and building in Dublin would be more expensive, but it does have its benefits as well that other counties would struggle to cultivate given its location and access to population that can be cultivated. The selling cost of the Parnell park site in Donnycarney would fetch a pretty penny and Dublin could develop things like, corporate facilities and amenities, entertainment events and other commercial revenues that others counties would struggle with if they were to develop a multi purpose ground. Thats before looking at the revenue streams from the playing side, i would be pretty confident in striking a funding model for that. Its hypothetical though, as i doubt it will happen for the reasons i mentioned. So we will contue to be Goldilocks in between a stadium to big and to small.
I think we are moving into a phase now of capital expenditure now we have the games development structure in place, the Spawell site will be developed as a COE and a small ground like Abbotstown. Apparently we will look to build other COE's in the county, which seems ambitious.
The senior footballers use Croker and that is high profile, but to be honest Parnell Park has been used far more frequently this summer, we have had two sell out Leinster games in Hurling there. The U20 are there next Tues and the woman in both codes will be there to. So while the senior footballers will use Croke Park, Dublin are maintaining Parnell Park similarly to any other county maintaining a ground.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/07/2019 15:47:54
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Replying To arock: ""but money pays for the multiple of qualified youth coaches now plying their trades across Dublin, it pays for the strength and conditioning programmes, the skills coaches, the nutritionist and dieticians, the psychologists and physiotherapists all of which help raw talents deliver fully on their potential"
Apart from the FACT this applies to every county, I don't know who these Youth Coaches are, you mean the ones paid for by the clubs/county board? You see i drive a lot around the country and what really amazes me is the amount of GAA clubs outside the capitol with superb facilites. So Dublin invests its money and capitol in participation and quality participation at that at all levels, it seems to me other counties place far greater emphasis and importance on capitol projects. Centres of excellence with tumbleweed swirling around them (we can all exaggerate to make a point no?), millions spent on stadiums with no games for them, beautiful clubhouses, manicured pitches with no teams to fill them. Maybe, just maybe counties will take a long hard look at themselves and say "we got this gig all wrong". Dublin have done at Inter-county level what Slaughtneil have at club level. The template is there, it is proven, but you have no bodies to invest in so you invest in grass and concrete, you have no desire to do the hard work. Most of the better coaches in Dublin BTW are country folk. Maybe this is why no one in Dublin takes anything you have to say seriously." Great post!
DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 03/07/2019 18:06:53
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Replying To DUBJOHN: "Great post!" Was it a great post though? Or is it just what you want to hear?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 03/07/2019 21:01:51
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Replying To Joxer: "No they were handed AIs instead. Check their run to the 1980 AI title. Even the current Meath team would have won that one. Of course you do realise that most of this current Dublin team are about 30 years old and were developed about 14-15 years ago. How many millions in GDF was pouring into Dublin in 2004?" A Dublin man questioning the value of Kerry having won the no. of All Ireland's they have is laughable. Dublin had won 15 All Irelands before Dublin first won one with a native team in the 1950's (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/captain-s-log-the-voyage-that-foundered-before-dublin-discovered-route-forward-1.2357113%3fmode=amp and
www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-became-a-football-force-after-the-team-went-only-dubs-need-apply-31536699.html).
Ye won loads shortly after the GAA was founded when clubs were representing counties and many inter county teams competitions were barely organised (6 won before the turn of the 20'th century, another 5 in the first decade of the 20'th century).
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1349 - 03/07/2019 21:05:31
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Was it a great post though? Or is it just what you want to hear?" Yes it was a great post .
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 03/07/2019 21:11:02
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Was it a great post though? Or is it just what you want to hear?" Yes to both.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 03/07/2019 21:13:00
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Was it a great post though? Or is it just what you want to hear?" Generally people like posts they agree with.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 03/07/2019 22:00:04
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Replying To avonali: "Would you ever give over with your "pre-2011 b.s.". Dublin posters know their history and the breadth of Intercounty football well enough. I get the narrative: we all just jumped on the bandwagon after 2011. I met Mick o"Connell as a child and I revered him. I also shook hands with Matt Connor. Stop with your oul narrative that Dubs are noting but bandwagon jumpers who don't appreciate the history of our games. Pathetic horsesh*te." If you look at my posts I always say some or a few or address one or two individuals I'm sure their are plenty of genuine Dublin fans on here but a vocal minority seem to be doing all the talking for ye.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 03/07/2019 22:04:18
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Replying To avonali: "Yes to both." That post would hold water as there's a lot of holes in it.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 03/07/2019 22:05:27
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Yawning
hipster (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 03/07/2019 22:07:27
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "That post would hold water as there's a lot of holes in it." Wouldn't hold water meant to say.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 03/07/2019 22:11:42
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Replying To TheHermit: "If you look at my posts I always say some or a few or address one or two individuals I'm sure their are plenty of genuine Dublin fans on here but a vocal minority seem to be doing all the talking for ye." POT KETTLE BLACK , im sure there are plenty of genuine Kerry fans on here too , but yourself and your buddy Kingdomboy and a few others definitely do all your talking / constant whinging for ye -:)
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 03/07/2019 22:24:29
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Replying To bdbuddah: "A Dublin man questioning the value of Kerry having won the no. of All Ireland's they have is laughable. Dublin had won 15 All Irelands before Dublin first won one with a native team in the 1950's (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/captain-s-log-the-voyage-that-foundered-before-dublin-discovered-route-forward-1.2357113%3fmode=amp and
www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-became-a-football-force-after-the-team-went-only-dubs-need-apply-31536699.html).
Ye won loads shortly after the GAA was founded when clubs were representing counties and many inter county teams competitions were barely organised (6 won before the turn of the 20'th century, another 5 in the first decade of the 20'th century)." Why so bitter ? -:)
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 03/07/2019 22:27:08
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