National Forum

6 Team Leinster Championship?

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "You seriously think Offaly are up to the standard of that group?
As bad as a 6 team proposal is, this one is even worse.
If it is to be 6, then there must be 6 in Munster too."
The purpose of expanding it from 5 to 6 teams is to give an ambitious county a realistic shot at developing into a proper tier 1 hurling team.

The current format has been a huge success in both Leinster and Munster for the tier 1 counties, their supporters, tv networks and financially.
The tier 2 and 3 sides have been thrown in the rubbish bin.

The debate should be:
1. Would 6 teams in either province be welcomed by the tier 2 counties
2. Would it improve, harm or have no impact on the current 5 team format in the provincial championship.
3. When should the change be implemented.

I don't think there are too many in Leinster that would object to an expansion of their championship.
In Munster, if this forum is anything to go by, there are many against it. I'm not really sure why but I'm not convinced that it has anything to do with Kerry's hurling welfare. If I'm mistaken in this regard, maybe the suits up in Dublin and the Munster council could help.

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 12/07/2019 10:37:02    2209843

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Small groups based on geographical locations can be hit or miss.

If the GAA are actually interested in the game and its development, they would get rid of the many leagues that take place during the year and have one as the seasons main competition.

Limerick, Wexford, Tipp, Kilkenny, Cork, Dublin, Galway, Clare, Waterford, Carlow, Laois and Westmeath.

Top 4 sides go into the All-Ireland Semi-finals. Bottom team is relegated. 2nd bottom team goes into a playoff with a team from the 2nd division.

6 matches every 2nd weekend. Have your old style Provincial knock-out Championship run in parallel. Season runs from April to August. Club Championships to run during the summer also.

Every hurler/supporter in the Country would have a fixture list at the start of the season.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 12/07/2019 11:32:05    2209881

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The 5th placed team in Munster have the luxury of a relegation playoff should Kerry ever win the McDonagh Cup.

I think it's fair that Leinster would expand to 6. The 5th place team in Leinster will have a threat of automatic relegation should they dropped to 6.

I think it's a fair compromise.

Kerry still have the short straw but will benefit from a preliminary quarter-final and the promotion-relegation playoff. I think Kerry should be given a promotion-relegation playoff if they make a McDonagh final. It will restore some balance in Kerry's favour.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7821 - 12/07/2019 11:57:40    2209895

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The 5th placed team in Munster have the luxury of a relegation playoff should Kerry ever win the McDonagh Cup.

I think it's fair that Leinster would expand to 6. The 5th place team in Leinster will have a threat of automatic relegation should they dropped to 6.

I think it's a fair compromise.

Kerry still have the short straw but will benefit from a preliminary quarter-final and the promotion-relegation playoff. I think Kerry should be given a promotion-relegation playoff if they make a McDonagh final. It will restore some balance in Kerry's favour."
Why aren't Kerry pushing to enter the Munster championship?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 12/07/2019 12:21:47    2209909

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Why aren't Kerry pushing to enter the Munster championship?"
Sure we have to win the McDonagh Cup first? Full credit to Laois, Westmeath and Antrim for finishing above us. We beat Offaly to avoid relegation to the Ring Cup.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7821 - 12/07/2019 12:43:19    2209918

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Sure we have to win the McDonagh Cup first? Full credit to Laois, Westmeath and Antrim for finishing above us. We beat Offaly to avoid relegation to the Ring Cup."
You have to win the McDonagh and then beat the bottom team in Munster.
An earlier post from someone in Tipp said Kerry wouldn't want to be in the provincial championship. Is that correct or just pure guff

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 12/07/2019 13:07:10    2209934

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Replying To Ej:  "You have to win the McDonagh and then beat the bottom team in Munster.
An earlier post from someone in Tipp said Kerry wouldn't want to be in the provincial championship. Is that correct or just pure guff"
Pure guff. A few years back the Ring winner had the option of joining the provincial championship or remaining in the Ring.

The first two winners under that arrangement took promotion to Leinster. When Kerry won the Ring we declined. It was a different system. We were next in line after two teams were promoted in successive years. It didn't mean we were ready for Munster Championship. The GAA later corrected that by establishing the qualifier group that has subsequently become the McDonagh Cup.

If Kerry had won the McDonagh Cup this year, we will have played Waterford in a promotion-relegation playoff. That result would have determined out promotion or not.

If Leinster is expanded to 6, it will give us a better chance of making the McDonagh final. Then we can dream of taking on the 5th team in Munster. Ciarraí abú!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7821 - 12/07/2019 14:29:45    2209971

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So why aren't Kerry pushing to be the 6th team in Leinster then? If its happening in Leinster, why aren't they so keen?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 12/07/2019 15:28:02    2209997

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Replying To Ban:  "Small groups based on geographical locations can be hit or miss.

If the GAA are actually interested in the game and its development, they would get rid of the many leagues that take place during the year and have one as the seasons main competition.

Limerick, Wexford, Tipp, Kilkenny, Cork, Dublin, Galway, Clare, Waterford, Carlow, Laois and Westmeath.

Top 4 sides go into the All-Ireland Semi-finals. Bottom team is relegated. 2nd bottom team goes into a playoff with a team from the 2nd division.

6 matches every 2nd weekend. Have your old style Provincial knock-out Championship run in parallel. Season runs from April to August. Club Championships to run during the summer also.

Every hurler/supporter in the Country would have a fixture list at the start of the season."
For me this would be the obvious solution.

It's a quirk of the GAA that championship has been traditionally a knockout based competition.

Most sports run them as leagues.

I don't see why in both codes they don't just have a league as the main competition.

It's actually easier to schedule club fixtures also because the fixtures bar the playoffs will be set at the start of the season and everyone can plan around them.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 12/07/2019 18:18:55    2210059

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If Leinster is expanded to 6, it will give us a better chance of making the McDonagh final. Then we can dream of taking on the 5th team in Munster. Ciarraí abú!
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 5941 - 12/07/2019 14:29:45

Why would Leinster being expanded to 6, improve Kerry's chances of wining the McDonagh? Do you mean that the McDonagh cup will be more winnable after another one of the stronger teams is promoted out of it to make it a 6 team Leinster? I think that would work against McDonagh level teams developing to be competitive in the provincial championships. Its the current strong standard of the McDonagh group thats helping these teams develop to the degree Laois showed last week. Remember they didn't even make the top 2 of the McDonagh group last year. I'm not saying increasing Leinster or Munster is necessarily a bad idea, but it would have consequences for the level the McDonagh group is played at, which'd ultimatley undermine the reason for the groups creation in the first place.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 12/07/2019 18:23:21    2210063

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Offaly's demise for me is why there needs to be more opportunity to make sure the second tier teams to progress and play at the top.

If Offaly can fall so far it could happen to Wexford, Waterford or Clare or some other team at some point in the future. If you don't have good teams coming through to replace teams that are struggling then you'll just end up with an uncompetitive championship.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 12/07/2019 19:09:20    2210082

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Offaly's demise for me is why there needs to be more opportunity to make sure the second tier teams to progress and play at the top.

If Offaly can fall so far it could happen to Wexford, Waterford or Clare or some other team at some point in the future. If you don't have good teams coming through to replace teams that are struggling then you'll just end up with an uncompetitive championship."
offalys demise had nothing to do with the championship structures,they have been shipping bad beatings at underage for years.this day was coming and that is just the reality.
as said above these counties need to be winning st underage as a starting point.
this is another result based reactionary decision.give the structure the 3 years and then think about the structure

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 13/07/2019 13:36:29    2210271

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Replying To perfect10:  "offalys demise had nothing to do with the championship structures,they have been shipping bad beatings at underage for years.this day was coming and that is just the reality.
as said above these counties need to be winning st underage as a starting point.
this is another result based reactionary decision.give the structure the 3 years and then think about the structure"
I'm not saying it has been.

I'm saying that with only 9 top teams, if another top team were to go the way of Offaly you'd be down to 8 top teams. It's important for the game that there's a pathway for the next group to develop and become top teams.

A 10 team All Ireland with only 1 spot for a developing county feels like it's 1 or 2 teams too small.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 13/07/2019 14:18:50    2210280

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I'm not saying it has been.

I'm saying that with only 9 top teams, if another top team were to go the way of Offaly you'd be down to 8 top teams. It's important for the game that there's a pathway for the next group to develop and become top teams.

A 10 team All Ireland with only 1 spot for a developing county feels like it's 1 or 2 teams too small."
But there is a pathway to develop and its called the JoeMc and so far has proved to be very successful way more so than when those counties were shipping beatings in Leinster champs

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 13/07/2019 19:50:17    2210332

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Replying To Breezy:  "But there is a pathway to develop and its called the JoeMc and so far has proved to be very successful way more so than when those counties were shipping beatings in Leinster champs"
It does give them a preliminary quarter final and it has been good to Laois this season.

I do think they need to more regularly play the best though.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 13/07/2019 20:40:46    2210360

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It does give them a preliminary quarter final and it has been good to Laois this season.

I do think they need to more regularly play the best though."
Laois will be playing Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, and Clare in the 2020 League.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 13/07/2019 21:04:03    2210377

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