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Replying To Whammo86: "I have to say I really hate that aspect of the competition.
If Kerry were to win the McDonagh should Waterford just lose to them.
They'd have a much better chance of getting to the AI quarterfinals every year. In fact they could also lose the McDonagh final every year from then on and it would be beneficial to them.
It's a loophole that really could disrupt the integrity of the competition.
I really hate that quirk in GAA competitions where lower tier teams get access to the playoffs in the higher tier.
It just doesn't happen in other sports and for good reason.
There should not be incentive for losing." Fair point. This isn't the championship format I'd have chosen, but its almost impossible to come up with a championship format that people will agree on. i.e. if you have lower level teams (teams outside the top 9) playing at the highest level, and getting beaten consistently (sometimes widely), you'll have people say "getting beatings like that isn't helping those counties, they need meaningful games against counties at their own level". And that was the case. Hence the tiered championship, which was a great move.
But then, you'll have people go "these teams are too good for that level, but not good enough for the top level, there should be an intermediary level". Hence the Joe McDonagh group. Again, not a bad move
But after a while, you'll have more people go "these teams won't develop unless they're playing against the top sides, they should really be playing at the top level", and on it goes.
But I think you're right. At some stage, there has to be a line drawn, and people just have to play within the structure thats there. As long as there's ample opportunity for promotion between tiers, its manageable.
And fwiw, I also agree with an earlier statement you made, there are too many tiers. But I think its the Lory Meaghar cup that needs to be subsumed into the Nicky Rackard, and whatever subsequent balancing between Ring and Rackard numbers. Munster, Leinster, and McDonagh counties have a good enough deal at the moment. Its the Ring and Rackard comps that need more attention, those tiers still involve over half the country, and have kind of been forgotten about.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 16/06/2019 18:17:24
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "Fair point. This isn't the championship format I'd have chosen, but its almost impossible to come up with a championship format that people will agree on. i.e. if you have lower level teams (teams outside the top 9) playing at the highest level, and getting beaten consistently (sometimes widely), you'll have people say "getting beatings like that isn't helping those counties, they need meaningful games against counties at their own level". And that was the case. Hence the tiered championship, which was a great move.
But then, you'll have people go "these teams are too good for that level, but not good enough for the top level, there should be an intermediary level". Hence the Joe McDonagh group. Again, not a bad move
But after a while, you'll have more people go "these teams won't develop unless they're playing against the top sides, they should really be playing at the top level", and on it goes.
But I think you're right. At some stage, there has to be a line drawn, and people just have to play within the structure thats there. As long as there's ample opportunity for promotion between tiers, its manageable.
And fwiw, I also agree with an earlier statement you made, there are too many tiers. But I think its the Lory Meaghar cup that needs to be subsumed into the Nicky Rackard, and whatever subsequent balancing between Ring and Rackard numbers. Munster, Leinster, and McDonagh counties have a good enough deal at the moment. Its the Ring and Rackard comps that need more attention, those tiers still involve over half the country, and have kind of been forgotten about." The price demanded by Leinster counties letting Galway in to their championship. The reality is Mcdonagh is a fantastic competition giving teams 11-15 great competition. They are also improving it must be given more than one year. Who would have imagined a year ago Offaly would not even get one draw and a thirteen point drubbing. Mcdonagh and Ring teams need more investment to get to top table
jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1445 - 19/06/2019 10:36:29
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Replying To Brian_Coyote: "Antrim hurlers went to Portugal for a training camp paid for by the fundraising of the Antrim senior hurlers, it cost £40k so it can be done. However it's hard to ask Carlow hurlera to give of their time to train so much and then the same guys asked to fundraise. Carlow needs a committee that will chase money, fundraise, etc.
Although on a different thread, Antrim have been awarded a million to improve Gaelic Games in the country because it has the second biggest city in Ireland, but the facts are that Belfast is about 50-60% unionist, while the rest of Antrim county is about 75% unionist. So we are never going to achieve anywhere as much as the Gaa are suggesting as we don't have the player numbers that the likes of Laios, Westmeath, etc. have." Brian. Antrim have more hurling clubs than Westmeath and Carlow. I can see there are 4 county leagues with about 9/10 teams each. Stripping away the Down (5)Derry (1)/Tyrone (1) teams you must be left with 25/30 clubs playing hurling there.. Kilkenny I think have 38..i only did a quick count there right enough but in hurling you have the raw potential to do more.. In football too.. And so do Cork before you point out that we have Division 3 football team!
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 19/06/2019 23:22:01
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Replying To EndaKenny: "Paul Coady is spot on but to be fair the investment in so-called 'weaker' counties should not be limited to Carlow and Joe McDonagh Cup teams...it should be extended across the board and not cherry-picked amongst the elite.
For example, Kildare won the Christy Ring Cup in 2014 and 2018 yet instead of gaining automatic promotion both years (which should be the case after winning a championship) they had to play a promotion/relegation play-off, the second against Antrim (seven days after CRC final and sixth championship game in 8 weeks) who are still perceived to be some sort of hurling (albeit sleeping) giant. So the highs of winning a championship were taken straight back off them and instead of going into the following season with a pep in their step, Kildare went into it stuck in limbo and short of a number of players who obviously lost interest off the back of structure, while Antrim - who lost all their games that year in the JMcDC to prove that they weren't good enough to be there - retained their status.
And Kildare is just an example. The GAA are ruining the game; tiered football will not work because it will eventually become like hurling, where there was once two tiers for championship there are now five and the stronger counties keep getting stronger and all the rest just suck it up." I've always thought the GAA will do anything to keep 'sleeping giants'' at the top level no matter what. In the lasr few years how many times have Antrim for example lose all thier games in either league of championahip yet have nothing happen? They were also put into the McDonagh Cup without actually winning the Christy Ring, while Kildare did win it and have to play a play-off.
Don't be at all surprised if something is changed to keep Offaly in the McDonagh Cup again next year
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 20/06/2019 09:57:52
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Replying To oneoff: "I've always thought the GAA will do anything to keep 'sleeping giants'' at the top level no matter what. In the lasr few years how many times have Antrim for example lose all thier games in either league of championahip yet have nothing happen? They were also put into the McDonagh Cup without actually winning the Christy Ring, while Kildare did win it and have to play a play-off.
Don't be at all surprised if something is changed to keep Offaly in the McDonagh Cup again next year" We are not good enough for Joe McDonagh Cup, as evident this year. Offaly have a job to win Christy Ring next year.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1731 - 20/06/2019 10:06:38
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Replying To bennybunny: "Brian. Antrim have more hurling clubs than Westmeath and Carlow. I can see there are 4 county leagues with about 9/10 teams each. Stripping away the Down (5)Derry (1)/Tyrone (1) teams you must be left with 25/30 clubs playing hurling there.. Kilkenny I think have 38..i only did a quick count there right enough but in hurling you have the raw potential to do more.. In football too.. And so do Cork before you point out that we have Division 3 football team!" Antrim's biggest problem is their own internal structures or lack of......they have as many clubs as likes of Clare etc but as usual they will seek to blame everyone and anyone for their 'plight' instead of getting their own house in order
Some cracking hurlers and lads in that Antrim squad but their county board leaves an awful lot to be desired
PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 20/06/2019 14:57:59
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Replying To PaudieSull1: "Antrim's biggest problem is their own internal structures or lack of......they have as many clubs as likes of Clare etc but as usual they will seek to blame everyone and anyone for their 'plight' instead of getting their own house in order
Some cracking hurlers and lads in that Antrim squad but their county board leaves an awful lot to be desired" Antrim's county board for a number of years were very bad.
There are a decent number of clubs in Antrim but outside of North Antrim most of the clubs are very football oriented.
There isn't that much depth behind Cushendall, Dunloy, Loughgeil and Ballycastle.
There's occasionally a decent Belfast club but in all of them football reasserts it's dominance very soon.
I see big potential in Meath. They've 12 teams in their senior championship. Clubs like Ratoath have a lot of outsiders from traditional hurling counties coming into their ranks.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4195 - 20/06/2019 18:48:21
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The diff in standard in joe mc and christy ring cup is massive lads.
Meath are prob to good for christy ring but need everybody at 100 percent to be competitive in joe mac.
The squad is getting better every year , the standard of club hurling has improved alot over the last decade in the county , and more and more kids are playing, potential is there but there is issues.
The biggest towns bar trim + ratoath have no interest in hurling, dunboyne are on the slide.
Navan , kells . ashbourne dont bother much with hurling , if at all.
Navan school is one of the biggest , im not even sure if they have a hurling team in the secondary school.
These areas need huge development for the county to improve.
The big hurling clubs are all small rural areas generally.
Ratoath have fast changed from junior team to very good senior team in a short period so it can be done.
The potential is there but county board only really care about football
hurlit (Meath) - Posts: 415 - 20/06/2019 23:41:41
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It's traditional to name a cup after someone but I think the competitions themselves need a name to reflect their respective levels:
Counties Championship (McDonagh Cup)
Championship 1 (Ring Cup)
Championship 2 (Rackard Cup)
Championship 3 (Meagher Cup)
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7812 - 22/06/2019 15:49:06
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I'd like to see the following alterations before next year's hurling championship:
+ Carlow and the Laois v Westmeath McDonagh Cup winner competing in the Leinster Championship (6 teams).
+ Offaly and Down (Ring runners-up) competing in the McDonagh Cup (6 teams).
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7812 - 22/06/2019 21:04:06
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