|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "So the ones with all the money are right the ones without the money are wrong according to you?" have we not been here already ? broken down record.
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 15/06/2019 23:14:03
2195562
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Joxer: "Where have I ever slated any county for playing puke football? I've simply said that it has become a blight on the game and is certainly responsible for a loss in entertainment value and product in general. Thank God for the slick Dubs. And I fully expect the proud Royal to go toe to toe with the champs next week. There's no nausea in Navan." I'm being serious here. Meath won't go toe to toe with Dublin. All through the league, the final and our 2 championship matches so far we've set up very defensively with the aim to counter attack. Very like Dublin but we don't have your level of fitness, the strength or indeed footballers as good as yours.
I really like how we set up because for too many years we'd be beat by teams with that style while we went toe to toe. I think we will be even more defensive then Kildare. They had 3 forwards within 30 metres of your goal for long periods. Realistically we'll have 1 maybe 2 at times.
Anyway the football volunteers must have switched codes to the hurling this year. I had galway as second favourites behind Tipp and reckon with Joe coming back they could have done it. Some win for the hurlers.
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 16/06/2019 02:14:37
2195601
Link
8
|
|
One thing people always seem to forget is the following :
We are talking Games Development money only here not total funding given to counties. Cork got 2M€ last year Longford 1M€ etc from the GAA but becuase it is not Games Development we think it shouldn't count???
And remember Games Development money means Dublin clubs have to match the same amount and people outside Dublin don't see the fund raising that goes on to raise this money.
So if we want an 'honest' picture show total GAA funding given to counties and then let us see what % each county is really getting!!!
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 16/06/2019 10:28:55
2195639
Link
2
|
|
If there is any doubt about this read Declan Whooleys article on the GAA news website this am.....
FarneyLenny (Monaghan) - Posts: 110 - 16/06/2019 10:54:45
2195654
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Joxer: "I'm with you on this by the way. I just want to know what this fair and equitable system is. Meath has multiples of the population of Leitrim, Carlow. Cork has multiples of the population of Meath. Dublin has multiples of the population of Cork. So logic would dictate that Dublin should always have multiples of the funding of any county. Plus Cork and Dublin are dual code counties.
So how much per head of population? Let's sat €2 per head. Dublin gets €3.2m and Meath gets €400K. But is Meath dual code? Should that €400K be diluted further, perhaps by 1/3? You see where this is going? There is no magic number here. I guess population, dual code status, number of clubs, number of schools? No matter what way you dice it Dublin would have to receive multiples of that of any other county. Certainly an imbalance as things stand but I should imagine that this will be addressed. GAA under serious pressure to wrestle young kids' interest away from soccer and rugby in the capital. Not too sure if that's such a factor in some other counties." There's no magic formula Joxer . However it needs to be addressed . We're not going to resolve the issue on an Internet forum . What is most important is that every county including Dublin is treated fairly . Dublin have over an extended period of time received a disproportionate amount of games development money . It's clear that they have used that money wisely and well. Their success should not be used as a stick with which to beat them . I'm not sure what basis should be used in relation to a redistribution of the games development money . The number of clubs in a county wouldn't be fair to Dublin as the clubs in Dublin cater for bigger numbers than rural clubs . The number of registered players could be used . What is clear is that it is an issue which needs to be resolved . Leinster is dead . The All Ireland is next and no one wants that . I don't believe that the hierarchy in The GAA have the resolve or the vision to tackle this . John Horan's comment illustrated this . It was like an ostrich burying it's head in the sand .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 16/06/2019 11:31:59
2195670
Link
1
|
|
Replying To clondalkindub: "Our minor hurlers bet our senior hurlers will more than likely be bet later , why if it's all about money have we been average at hurling for decades? Please don't say we're coming at a lower ebb than the footballers we've the population so it shouldn't matter where your coming from ,this money is coming in nearly 20 years now. Or just maybe we've a once in a lifetime great football team ? Just "maybe" anyone ?" I remember when your hurlers couldn't keep the ball pucked out to anyone . Yes you were st a lower ebb than your footballers and you've just taken Galway out .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 16/06/2019 11:34:28
2195672
Link
2
|
|
Replying To FarneyLenny: "If there is any doubt about this read Declan Whooleys article on the GAA news website this am....." Its 25 % a decent article, the figures are a bit click ability, 17 mill for Dublin, comparing to Cork and MEath - yawn, In one sentence. You could disprove both to relativity. 1. Multiply Dublins population over the same period as the 17 mill and its less then a euro a head, less then other counties allocation. If you are gong to use a tired a formula at least apply it.
Comparing Dublin to Meath and Cork is like comparing Ireland to Germany in demographic scale.
The debate is really lacking any decent or new analysis in the media to be honest. I know people will have their own entranced views though.
What i like though is he talks about the much vaunted model and i suppose universally, there is an acknowledgement that Dublin got it right. He talks about Ranleagh Gaels and Balbriggan in disparaging terms, however i actually think its the opposite, its a very good news story, with new clubs springing up and new families being exposed and new children playing, the game is expanding in Dublin, that a good news story. What this and much analysis fails to recognize is that this the actual function of the GAA.
There are words being bandied about like volunteerism and models. At least this article discusses it. If everyone acknowledges that Dublin have gotten right. I cant really understand why other counties haven't done similar.
Dublins model runs on a 50/50 split. GDO's are employed 50% by the DCB, the DCB doesn't fundraise (much) for the senior team and leaves the fundraising landscape open for clubs to fundraise, this enables clubs to fundraise to fund 50% of the GDO salary at create a synergy between county GDO and Club.
Dublin get the funds to this comparable to their population, but it takes a mighty effort by the club, perhaps the volunteerism Horan is speaking about, just a thought.
Now, what is the obstacle to other counties doing this. As the ratio of population to GDF shows, Dublin per head receive less then many other counties. Thus there are resources out here. Other counties fund their GDO primarily through provincial grants on top of their GDF. Dublin dont get this (the only county). So its likely every certainly most counties in terms of their GDF and population to scale have similar if not better resources then Dublin.
So why hasnt the 50/50 model been adopted in the main, if Dublins structures and model is universally accepted as the best? I suspect his comes down to relationship between clubs and county boards, county boards i imagine are reluctant to yield fundraising revenue to clubs and allow them to grow, develop or perhaps trust them. I think in the country they tend to be more parochial and locally driven politically, while there are suspicions of many county boards. Seems more of a dynamic of resentment that the club keep what is theirs and county board keeping what is theirs. I would imagine this is individual in every county. Just doesnt seem like there is the harmony in the country game to apply the DUblin model elsewhere. What this enables is the same thing happening over and over again and neither club or county being particularly happy. Its almost like a feudal arrangement, of sef and master. Instead of collaborative approach to enable each other.
The one thing i would say is that Dublin are in a position ahead of an awful lot of other counties in terms of commercial revenue to allow this happen. Or at least to have taken the risk in implementing this structure that sports club and county.
But perhaps a question rather then the girth of finance its applying existing fiance it to scale. Perhaps the traditional structures in other counties are just outdated now or clearly Dublin have shown a different way. With that in mind With a broader question being why the model hasnt been adopted to scale using existing finances. Doesnt it clearly work?
*That said i think a few Leinster counties have dabbled in it this year.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 16/06/2019 12:35:33
2195689
Link
7
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "Its 25 % a decent article, the figures are a bit click ability, 17 mill for Dublin, comparing to Cork and MEath - yawn, In one sentence. You could disprove both to relativity. 1. Multiply Dublins population over the same period as the 17 mill and its less then a euro a head, less then other counties allocation. If you are gong to use a tired a formula at least apply it.
Comparing Dublin to Meath and Cork is like comparing Ireland to Germany in demographic scale.
The debate is really lacking any decent or new analysis in the media to be honest. I know people will have their own entranced views though.
What i like though is he talks about the much vaunted model and i suppose universally, there is an acknowledgement that Dublin got it right. He talks about Ranleagh Gaels and Balbriggan in disparaging terms, however i actually think its the opposite, its a very good news story, with new clubs springing up and new families being exposed and new children playing, the game is expanding in Dublin, that a good news story. What this and much analysis fails to recognize is that this the actual function of the GAA.
There are words being bandied about like volunteerism and models. At least this article discusses it. If everyone acknowledges that Dublin have gotten right. I cant really understand why other counties haven't done similar.
Dublins model runs on a 50/50 split. GDO's are employed 50% by the DCB, the DCB doesn't fundraise (much) for the senior team and leaves the fundraising landscape open for clubs to fundraise, this enables clubs to fundraise to fund 50% of the GDO salary at create a synergy between county GDO and Club.
Dublin get the funds to this comparable to their population, but it takes a mighty effort by the club, perhaps the volunteerism Horan is speaking about, just a thought.
Now, what is the obstacle to other counties doing this. As the ratio of population to GDF shows, Dublin per head receive less then many other counties. Thus there are resources out here. Other counties fund their GDO primarily through provincial grants on top of their GDF. Dublin dont get this (the only county). So its likely every certainly most counties in terms of their GDF and population to scale have similar if not better resources then Dublin.
So why hasnt the 50/50 model been adopted in the main, if Dublins structures and model is universally accepted as the best? I suspect his comes down to relationship between clubs and county boards, county boards i imagine are reluctant to yield fundraising revenue to clubs and allow them to grow, develop or perhaps trust them. I think in the country they tend to be more parochial and locally driven politically, while there are suspicions of many county boards. Seems more of a dynamic of resentment that the club keep what is theirs and county board keeping what is theirs. I would imagine this is individual in every county. Just doesnt seem like there is the harmony in the country game to apply the DUblin model elsewhere. What this enables is the same thing happening over and over again and neither club or county being particularly happy. Its almost like a feudal arrangement, of sef and master. Instead of collaborative approach to enable each other.
The one thing i would say is that Dublin are in a position ahead of an awful lot of other counties in terms of commercial revenue to allow this happen. Or at least to have taken the risk in implementing this structure that sports club and county.
But perhaps a question rather then the girth of finance its applying existing fiance it to scale. Perhaps the traditional structures in other counties are just outdated now or clearly Dublin have shown a different way. With that in mind With a broader question being why the model hasnt been adopted to scale using existing finances. Doesnt it clearly work?
*That said i think a few Leinster counties have dabbled in it this year." One small point on that . O Dwyers in Balbriggan have a population of 25,000 and access to 7 secondary schools and 10 primary schools . How many clubs outside of Dublin have that available to them ? Most clubs are small parish clubs who have a small local school to work from and share a secondary school. For many GAA clubs you are talking a population of three to four hundred houses . You tell me how they would raise the money to pay for a GDA on an annual basis .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 16/06/2019 13:20:13
2195703
Link
2
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "Its 25 % a decent article, the figures are a bit click ability, 17 mill for Dublin, comparing to Cork and MEath - yawn, In one sentence. You could disprove both to relativity. 1. Multiply Dublins population over the same period as the 17 mill and its less then a euro a head, less then other counties allocation. If you are gong to use a tired a formula at least apply it.
Comparing Dublin to Meath and Cork is like comparing Ireland to Germany in demographic scale.
The debate is really lacking any decent or new analysis in the media to be honest. I know people will have their own entranced views though.
What i like though is he talks about the much vaunted model and i suppose universally, there is an acknowledgement that Dublin got it right. He talks about Ranleagh Gaels and Balbriggan in disparaging terms, however i actually think its the opposite, its a very good news story, with new clubs springing up and new families being exposed and new children playing, the game is expanding in Dublin, that a good news story. What this and much analysis fails to recognize is that this the actual function of the GAA.
There are words being bandied about like volunteerism and models. At least this article discusses it. If everyone acknowledges that Dublin have gotten right. I cant really understand why other counties haven't done similar.
Dublins model runs on a 50/50 split. GDO's are employed 50% by the DCB, the DCB doesn't fundraise (much) for the senior team and leaves the fundraising landscape open for clubs to fundraise, this enables clubs to fundraise to fund 50% of the GDO salary at create a synergy between county GDO and Club.
Dublin get the funds to this comparable to their population, but it takes a mighty effort by the club, perhaps the volunteerism Horan is speaking about, just a thought.
Now, what is the obstacle to other counties doing this. As the ratio of population to GDF shows, Dublin per head receive less then many other counties. Thus there are resources out here. Other counties fund their GDO primarily through provincial grants on top of their GDF. Dublin dont get this (the only county). So its likely every certainly most counties in terms of their GDF and population to scale have similar if not better resources then Dublin.
So why hasnt the 50/50 model been adopted in the main, if Dublins structures and model is universally accepted as the best? I suspect his comes down to relationship between clubs and county boards, county boards i imagine are reluctant to yield fundraising revenue to clubs and allow them to grow, develop or perhaps trust them. I think in the country they tend to be more parochial and locally driven politically, while there are suspicions of many county boards. Seems more of a dynamic of resentment that the club keep what is theirs and county board keeping what is theirs. I would imagine this is individual in every county. Just doesnt seem like there is the harmony in the country game to apply the DUblin model elsewhere. What this enables is the same thing happening over and over again and neither club or county being particularly happy. Its almost like a feudal arrangement, of sef and master. Instead of collaborative approach to enable each other.
The one thing i would say is that Dublin are in a position ahead of an awful lot of other counties in terms of commercial revenue to allow this happen. Or at least to have taken the risk in implementing this structure that sports club and county.
But perhaps a question rather then the girth of finance its applying existing fiance it to scale. Perhaps the traditional structures in other counties are just outdated now or clearly Dublin have shown a different way. With that in mind With a broader question being why the model hasnt been adopted to scale using existing finances. Doesnt it clearly work?
*That said i think a few Leinster counties have dabbled in it this year." https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/910166545455882240?s=19
"To take GAA games development funding of 31 counties per player to Dublin level would need budget increase from €3,138,907 to €90,673,525.40"
joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 217 - 16/06/2019 13:35:02
2195711
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Greengrass: "One small point on that . O Dwyers in Balbriggan have a population of 25,000 and access to 7 secondary schools and 10 primary schools . How many clubs outside of Dublin have that available to them ? Most clubs are small parish clubs who have a small local school to work from and share a secondary school. For many GAA clubs you are talking a population of three to four hundred houses . You tell me how they would raise the money to pay for a GDA on an annual basis ." It's a consideration I made. It's why I mention scale. Clearly if there is less of a population, there is less need of the resource, time etc. As such you would look at using the GDO availability to meet the needs at a few schools and clubs and communally funding the GDO and sharing. This actually happens in Dublin away from the bigger clubs, it's been done.
But the point you raise does unravel your previous one on equality, rembering that equality and equity are two different things. Why would you provide equal instead of equitable funding to comparative clubs with catchment areas of 25k and a few hundred. It's equal in scale but equitable. It's why numbers like 17 mill without application to population, or comparing to other counties is remiss really.
You make the point yourself really well.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 16/06/2019 13:37:31
2195712
Link
4
|
|
Also found it interesting in that article that all county boards sign of on the funding distribution of GDF, that's fascinating I didn't know that.
Essentially you own County Board has signed off on the allocation of GDF.
Why do people think every other county board has approved the distribution as it is, if as many argue they are being shafted?
Would people question there county boards here?
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 16/06/2019 13:43:30
2195716
Link
7
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "It's a consideration I made. It's why I mention scale. Clearly if there is less of a population, there is less need of the resource, time etc. As such you would look at using the GDO availability to meet the needs at a few schools and clubs and communally funding the GDO and sharing. This actually happens in Dublin away from the bigger clubs, it's been done.
But the point you raise does unravel your previous one on equality, rembering that equality and equity are two different things. Why would you provide equal instead of equitable funding to comparative clubs with catchment areas of 25k and a few hundred. It's equal in scale but equitable. It's why numbers like 17 mill without application to population, or comparing to other counties is remiss really.
You make the point yourself really well." The point is being made on a regular basis . Thirteen times the money to a county with three times the population. That's what is happening in relation to Dublin and Cork .That's also why I said redistributing the money on the basis of the number of clubs would be unfair to Dublin . They have clubs that cater for very large populations. What is clear is that there needs to be a redistribution of the money on a fair and sustainable basis . The Leinster championship has been ripped from football fans . Nobody wants the All Ireland to go the same way .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 16/06/2019 13:48:43
2195722
Link
1
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "Also found it interesting in that article that all county boards sign of on the funding distribution of GDF, that's fascinating I didn't know that.
Essentially you own County Board has signed off on the allocation of GDF.
Why do people think every other county board has approved the distribution as it is, if as many argue they are being shafted?
Would people question there county boards here?" I didn't know that either . It certainly begs the question Username .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 16/06/2019 13:50:08
2195724
Link
1
|
|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Dublin hurlers just knocked Galway out of the allireland and they say money doesn't matter." This is the same hurlers from Div 1B who were beaten by Kilkenny and were lucky to draw with Wexford at home thanks to a last min goal, right? Just checking. It's a sad day for Kerry when one of their own views one win out of three games in a provincial championship as a roaring success. The standards have certainly dropped in the once mighty Kingdom. There are no spaces being made for Liam on the trophy shelf at Parnell Park I can tell ye. Great win but that's as far as it goes.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 16/06/2019 13:54:48
2195728
Link
7
|
|
Replying To FarneyLenny: "If there is any doubt about this read Declan Whooleys article on the GAA news website this am....." link
True. But also the included prophetic article from Peter Sweeney from more than three years ago.
link
The GAA want not just Dublin but all of the top counties remaining strong while they plough ahead with plans for a tiered championship to improve the top standard and increase the gap to so-called weaker counties by providing them with more 'competitive' games. Such condescending rubbish. Competitive at a very poor level because the GAA have no interest in putting funds in there in the so-called weaker counties or change structures so that those counties get some meaningful games versus teams of a higher standard. The top tier of ten or 12 elite counties playing a championship. Local rivalries that stir the soul, even Division 3 v Division 1 and the chance of an upset all gone. In effect the death of the real soul of the All Ireland Football Championship. I think it's because accountants run the GAA at the top level and they think keeping the rich richer will keep the GAA strong. They look on it as a product but the GAA are games played by ladies and gentlemen who love their Jersey and play with heart and commitment and not by suits with calculators.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7345 - 16/06/2019 14:02:09
2195732
Link
10
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "Also found it interesting in that article that all county boards sign of on the funding distribution of GDF, that's fascinating I didn't know that.
Essentially you own County Board has signed off on the allocation of GDF.
Why do people think every other county board has approved the distribution as it is, if as many argue they are being shafted?
Would people question there county boards here?" Excellent point. Bit like other county boards directing Dublin to play at Croke Park and then whinging about Dublin playing "all of their games" at Croke Park. You'd swear that the DCB was in control of these provincial and national matters.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 16/06/2019 14:16:33
2195739
Link
7
|
|
I see the Jackals were out early to denounce Dublin hurlers win almost immediately
Very unsportsmanlike behavior
But this only highlights the true nature of their endeavors on this topic
This result for Dublin was a long time coming, We had several top players leave the panel, got relegated, succession of very poor results followed, embarrassing defeats, manager resigned after what can only be described as a poor time in charge for many reasons and players walking away was a testament to that.
*** No talk of money advantages then wha***
Strange that :)
Gilroy came in to rebuild and he enticed fellas back into the panel, had them playing competitively, slowly building, trying to get a panel of players to go again, he did very well imo in a short space of time and Dublin just weren't good enough yet and narrowly missed out on some promising results
But yeah.. it's all down to money
Even though they were getting hammered and embarrassed with the same level of funding only a short time ago...
Yep, all it does is demonstrates the pure bile and self serving nature of their comments. To latch onto this win instantly with such comments is genuinely grubby behavior.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 16/06/2019 14:33:51
2195751
Link
3
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "Also found it interesting in that article that all county boards sign of on the funding distribution of GDF, that's fascinating I didn't know that.
Essentially you own County Board has signed off on the allocation of GDF.
Why do people think every other county board has approved the distribution as it is, if as many argue they are being shafted?
Would people question there county boards here?" They county boards probably had a gun to their heads.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 16/06/2019 14:55:39
2195759
Link
0
|
|
Replying To GreenandRed: " linkTrue. But also the included prophetic article from Peter Sweeney from more than three years ago. linkThe GAA want not just Dublin but all of the top counties remaining strong while they plough ahead with plans for a tiered championship to improve the top standard and increase the gap to so-called weaker counties by providing them with more 'competitive' games. Such condescending rubbish. Competitive at a very poor level because the GAA have no interest in putting funds in there in the so-called weaker counties or change structures so that those counties get some meaningful games versus teams of a higher standard. The top tier of ten or 12 elite counties playing a championship. Local rivalries that stir the soul, even Division 3 v Division 1 and the chance of an upset all gone. In effect the death of the real soul of the All Ireland Football Championship. I think it's because accountants run the GAA at the top level and they think keeping the rich richer will keep the GAA strong. They look on it as a product but the GAA are games played by ladies and gentlemen who love their Jersey and play with heart and commitment and not by suits with calculators."
The beauty of the provincial championships is as quoted, the chance of a weaker team beating the stronger side on the day.
These proposals should be binned, the so called lesser lights should give them a big thumbs down.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1741 - 16/06/2019 15:01:22
2195764
Link
3
|
|
Replying To GreenandRed: " linkTrue. But also the included prophetic article from Peter Sweeney from more than three years ago. linkThe GAA want not just Dublin but all of the top counties remaining strong while they plough ahead with plans for a tiered championship to improve the top standard and increase the gap to so-called weaker counties by providing them with more 'competitive' games. Such condescending rubbish. Competitive at a very poor level because the GAA have no interest in putting funds in there in the so-called weaker counties or change structures so that those counties get some meaningful games versus teams of a higher standard. The top tier of ten or 12 elite counties playing a championship. Local rivalries that stir the soul, even Division 3 v Division 1 and the chance of an upset all gone. In effect the death of the real soul of the All Ireland Football Championship. I think it's because accountants run the GAA at the top level and they think keeping the rich richer will keep the GAA strong. They look on it as a product but the GAA are games played by ladies and gentlemen who love their Jersey and play with heart and commitment and not by suits with calculators."
I'm hoping that none of the county delegates vote for this and take the GAAs 30 pieces of silver.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 16/06/2019 15:02:45
2195765
Link
0
|