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listening to a lot on this lately..Isnt it kind of scary to think lesser teams (such as Offaly) may not win a provincial final again (at least anytime soon), realistically, we wont win an All Ireland (again anytime soon)..so once the weaker teams get knocked out in their province, they get a few qualifier games, eventually getting beat, sometimes first game, and that's it...people calling for scrapping provincial championships should remember that Offaly, Carlow, Wicklow, Wexford, Louth (even Kildare & Meath now Ide say) etc in Leinster, and Leitrim and Sligo in Connaught, Clare, Tipp & Limerick & Waterford in Munster, Fermanagh & Antrim in Ulster would take hand and all any year if they were offered a provincial title...get rid of provincials and these counties may never win anything, its the so called little victories keep such counties going, with an All Ireland almost beyond them most years over the last few decades, cannot see it changing radically either to be honest. Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 15/05/2019 13:35:24 2184294 Link 0 |
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But isn't the motivation for getting rid of provincials to allow time and space for a graded, multi-tiered competition in which the so-called weaker counties absolutely have a chance of winning at their own level, and progressing upwards if good enough?
TearsIn85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 193 - 15/05/2019 13:57:04 2184303 Link 4 |
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as long as the Sport is "amateur" very hard to see how doing away with the chance of winning a cup (even provincial) will be an encouragement for lads to stay with their team, in particular the weaker counties...just for example, all these so called weaker counties might get as far as the round before the now Super8's but not be good enough to break into them...Roscommon and Kildare made them last year, but would be deemed stronger than the counties I refer to as weak...I hear what your saying, but only one team can ever win an All Ireland each year, and a provincial is next best after that, a Joe this or Christy that cup sounds good too, but just cannot see them being taken seriously that's all...
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 15/05/2019 16:29:13 2184351 Link 0 |
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Exactly. I do not understand how/why it is such a taboo subject given that club football the length and breadth of the land is structured in such a way so as teams compete at a level appropriate to them. I was lucky enough to win Donegal junior and intermediate club championships in my day and I defy anyone who would belittle them because they weren't senior championship medals. Memories to last a lifetime. It's an attitude change that's needed even more so than a competition structural change. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 15/05/2019 16:34:23 2184352 Link 2 |
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I think there's a place for both. Get teams playing their Provincial championship. Get them playing a league competition at their level in and around the summer months. Have both be linked to the All Ireland series to make both be meaningful. Just get teams playing more of the meaningful matches over the course of the year. Having the league being played in February and March is the big problem. The competitions themselves actually meet a lot of a teams needs already. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 15/05/2019 19:54:37 2184388 Link 4 |
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I don't understand why you would get rid of the Provincial championship. I'd rather win a provincial more than winning a second tiered All Ireland. Ahlinesman (Laois) - Posts: 3 - 15/05/2019 20:46:55 2184396 Link 0 |
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idea......keep the 4 provinces but rotate the Dubs into a different province each year so they only play in Leinster every 4th year....it would spice things up suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1667 - 15/05/2019 21:23:09 2184408 Link 1 |
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It's a terrible idea
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 15/05/2019 21:29:01 2184410 Link 4 |
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Are you suggesting that weaker counties should be down graded to Intermediate or Junior status?
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 15/05/2019 22:39:12 2184436 Link 1 |
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Yes I have often said on here that there is no need to tear everything up, move the league to the summer and overlap it with a slimmed down championship and you have everyone playing meaningful football in the good summer months. We can argue about formats etc until the cows come home but I believe that's the answer long term. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 15/05/2019 22:44:27 2184438 Link 4 |
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and that is a terrible idea if you are serious in making it, my debate is to keep the provincial, a bit silly then taking a team out of their province to play province about each year..its such a terrible idea, no doubt the GAA (and SKY and BT sports etc) would look at it, billing Dublin V CORK AND Kerry One year early in the year, Dublin V Mayo AND Rosocommon the next year, Dublin V Donegal AND Tyrone the next year...knowing the GAA and its love of revenue it will probably consider it!!!
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 15/05/2019 23:18:31 2184443 Link 0 |
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As someone from one of the supposed 'weaker counties', i don't see the point in retaining the provincial championship's. I would love to see Louth win one, but the reality is that Dublin have won every championship on offer, after 2010. What is the point in keeping the provincial's for the hope that 1 year in 10 might see a surprise winner. The only way forward would be to change from provincial's to divisional championship's - North, South, East and West - which still offers hope of winning a championship outside of an AI, and would lead to playing different teams every year, and most importantly, everyone would play the same amount of games. PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1653 - 16/05/2019 07:41:13 2184466 Link 0 |
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"Downgraded". This is what I mean by attitude change. I wouldn't propose 3 separate championships but certainly one alternative competition to coincide with the Sam Maguire championship. I think something along the lines of what Jim McGuinness/Sean Kelly proposed (see other thread). This keeps the provincial competitions and crucially rewards league performance as well. So called lesser teams still retain their chance of winning provincial silverware and if they're good enough progress into Sam Maguire contention. As I said in my previous post I don't see why there is such opposition to this. If I'm a junior club member and I demanded my club be a participant in the Donegal senior club championship I'd be laughed out of the AGM. Look I can acknowledge that an underdog victory against a big team is a great story but they are few and far between. Limerick beat Tipperary last weekend which was great. But if Cork wake up and batter them next time out where are they then? Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 16/05/2019 09:46:31 2184484 Link 1 |
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It's ridiculous that at every level in the GAA we have a graded system except the senior championship...Mulligan has left Leitrim again Insee probably dissalusioned. yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 16/05/2019 10:49:05 2184512 Link 4 |
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So you are advocating a 'regrade' for weaker counties to Intermediate or Junior status.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 16/05/2019 11:11:54 2184526 Link 0 |
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Now you're playing semantics. I'd certainly call it a restructure but would avoid any talk of demotion, diminished B competition etc. I do not understand why it is such an obstacle. Like I understand people saying that we have the leagues for teams to compete with other teams of a similar level. But the dog on the street knows it's Championship that gets the pulses racing. Teams train and condition themselves in woeful conditions for a flagship competition played in the summer. And for a lot of teams after two matches that's them done. It's absolutely ridiculous when you think of it. The existing provincials and leagues can be used to dictate where teams will operate come the summer Championships. Worst case scenario you'll end up in a Championship where you can at least be competitive and have a games:training ratio which is sensible and not completely insane like we have now. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 16/05/2019 12:14:13 2184553 Link 1 |
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I know what you're saying and I to can see plenty of merit in a Jim McGuinness style format. The crucial point being that everybody starts off with equal opportunity to play at the top level, ie win your provincial and you're playing for Sam, regardless of your league standing. That's good, that's the way it should be. I don't think club and county can really be compared though. County is the elite level of Gaa, it requires huge commitment and sacrifice and of course the championship has nearly always contained the 31 counties (minus Kilkenny) and London & NY. Club is far more diverse, you have thousands of people playing club for all sorts of different reasons, some put in as much effort as the county lads/ladies, others are playing to keep fit, others love being part of the local team, some are in their 40s and still playing for the sheer love of it etc etc. Also, tiers have existed for years at club level, they're nothing new but they work for the reasons outlined about. Not everybody wants to play senior football at club level, but county is a different animal. Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 16/05/2019 14:08:52 2184603 Link 0 |
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Massive attitude change is needed and crucially I think if you took a poll of all players involved at senior level then outside of the top counties the rest surely would vote for an option that contains more games, a more competitive playing field and the chance of winning silverware regardless of what said silverware is. The fact of the matter is the provincial championships are now totally out of sync with what we should all want - exciting and close football matches. The structure of our competitions at the moment is totally feeding into the defensive style football that we've seen the last ten years or more. Teams know they're gonna come up against far better opposition and therefore are on a damage limitation mission from the get go. Take the upcoming Dublin v Louth game. Louth are more than likely going to play a defensive style of game in order to keep the damage down as low as possible. That sort of mentality/tactic, call it what you will is doing nothing for developing the Louth players as they are being totally hamstrung by the "system" they are told to go and employ. There is surely no enjoyment in it either as they are not going out and playing the game the grew up watching. My argument would be that if Louth or any so called weaker county was playing a team of a similar level would they not develop their players more by playing proper football in those games, improving the core skills of football (which are diminishing greatly as a result of incessant handpassing, defensive play etc) and therefore putting in place a decent side over a number of years being able to step up to the top table and take on or at least give a rattle to one of the top teams? Personally I'd tear the whole lot up and give the powers that be a blank canvas to produce something radical and new that at least some experts can kick the tyres on. The reality is the way things stand there won't be any major provincial shock in the next ten years and everyone will be even more sick of watching the same teams in provincial finals. It's time we stopped getting so hung up on history and what provincial titles mean, at the end of the day we all want to see top class games over the course of a restructured season. I have a handful of mates from University currently playing for lesser counties in football and I've spoken to all of them at one stage or another about what they'd like to be done and every single one is tired of entering the championship each year with little or no hope. Hope is the one thing that drives athletes and fans alike. Hope of the big day in Croke Park, hope of lifting a national title. At the moment there is absolutely no hope for any county outside the top few obvious ones. It's time to get that back and quickly before we get sucked deeper into this mess. Incidentally all would be more than happy to tog out each year in a secondary competition if it meant better games and the chance to gain promotion to the top tier. TrueBlue35 (Dublin) - Posts: 206 - 16/05/2019 14:35:57 2184615 Link 1 |
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Maybe get Pat the Baker to sponsor a Tier 2 championship as top brass give them a nice condescending pat on the head. 'Good ladeens, off with and keep playing a rubbish standard of football in some 'competitive' games for the Small Ireland Championship'. Meanwhile we'll concentrate on the top ladeens, widen the gap between top and bottom, they'll bring in the cash and we'll play lip service to ye in the so-called weaker counties. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 16/05/2019 15:18:42 2184638 Link 4 |
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There are more than enough means to promote a properly run, sponsored, funded and well organised 2nd tier. The LGFA have done it for years and they are thriving. Of course the weaker counties need to vote it in and already a number of managers from weaker counties have spoken out and said they want it e.g. Ciaran Deely's comments after London lost their opening game this year "I think it's the only way that teams, like ourselves in Division Four, can develop and keep improving. We'd love to be in a competition that we've a real chance of winning." Terry Highland and Liam Kearns have said similar although the latter with a word of caution about how it needs to be promoted. The second tier is inevitable and if done correctly I believe it can be a roaring success.
TrueBlue35 (Dublin) - Posts: 206 - 16/05/2019 15:50:10 2184647 Link 0 |