National Forum

Merge The League And Championship

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Based on the league standings seed all the teams 1-32

The top 16 seeds divided in to 2 divisions Division 1A and 2A. Same for the bottom 16 seeds.

Start the league on the first weekend in April. Play games every second weekend.

Top 2 teams in Divisions 1A & 2A automatically qualify for the Super8s

3rd and 4th place in both divisions play the top 2 teams in Division 2A and 2B. Winners go on to the Super 8s

The bottom 2 teams in divisions 1A and 2A relegated to their corresponding divisions.

Super 8s games to be played 1 home 1 away and 1 neutral venue (Not Croke Park)

JuniorBee (Mayo) - Posts: 40 - 14/03/2019 18:57:01    2172254

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With much discussion about club v county scheduling - I feel the inter-county player's annual workload should be restricted to allow for more open club scheduling.

Currently, Dublin plays 8 and 8 games to win the AI and NFL, respectively. If we cut this back to say max 12 (6 in NFL, 3 Prov KO, 3 AI KO Series), this would take the pressure off inter-county scheduling.

NFL - Div 1 (14 teams) - 2 groups of 7 - top 5 in each to AI KO Series.
Div 2 (18 teams) - 3 groups of 6 - top 2 in each & 2 best 3rds play 1 Prelim KO rd - 4 winners to AI KO Series (and promoted to Div 1 next year).
Prov KO - top 4 only in each prov qualified from NFL, play 3 KO rds - SFs, Fs & Champs Playoffs - 2 unbeaten Champs to AI KO Series.

Most likely 14 teams will make the AI KO Series, with the 2 unbeaten Champs 'doubling up' (Dubs ?) with bye to AI KO QFs (scrap the Super 8).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1613 - 15/03/2019 01:12:58    2172315

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Replying To omahant:  "With much discussion about club v county scheduling - I feel the inter-county player's annual workload should be restricted to allow for more open club scheduling.

Currently, Dublin plays 8 and 8 games to win the AI and NFL, respectively. If we cut this back to say max 12 (6 in NFL, 3 Prov KO, 3 AI KO Series), this would take the pressure off inter-county scheduling.

NFL - Div 1 (14 teams) - 2 groups of 7 - top 5 in each to AI KO Series.
Div 2 (18 teams) - 3 groups of 6 - top 2 in each & 2 best 3rds play 1 Prelim KO rd - 4 winners to AI KO Series (and promoted to Div 1 next year).
Prov KO - top 4 only in each prov qualified from NFL, play 3 KO rds - SFs, Fs & Champs Playoffs - 2 unbeaten Champs to AI KO Series.

Most likely 14 teams will make the AI KO Series, with the 2 unbeaten Champs 'doubling up' (Dubs ?) with bye to AI KO QFs (scrap the Super 8)."
I don't think there'd have to be such a hard limit on the number of fixtures. The season is badly organised rather than having too many games.

From start of March to the end of July is 22 weeks. A season of up to 16 to 18 games could be accommodated with some rest weekends for each team.

Club championship would start sharply in August to be completed in 17 weeks or so before Christmas.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2637 - 15/03/2019 18:48:28    2172444

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39-week season on and 13 off is fine and about right - but instead of 22 weeks for county / 17 clubs, reversing to 17 county (with 5 weeks off) and 22 for clubs (with breaks) would benefit the 98% of players more.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1613 - 15/03/2019 22:38:43    2172481

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Replying To omahant:  "39-week season on and 13 off is fine and about right - but instead of 22 weeks for county / 17 clubs, reversing to 17 county (with 5 weeks off) and 22 for clubs (with breaks) would benefit the 98% of players more."
The club players can play league competitions without county players.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2637 - 15/03/2019 22:48:07    2172486

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Something incredibly simple but very exciting would be a 3 tier league season played from May Day to the August bank holidays.

Championship 1 12 teams- 4 teams to playoffs
Championship 2 10 teams- 3 teams to playoffs
Championship 3 10 teams- 3 teams to playoffs

2 up 2 down between divisions

In both Championship 2 and 3. 2nd place hosts 3rd in a single semifinal for promotion and a place in the final. Top in each group automatically promoted.

May Day to August bank holidays is 14 weekends

Can have division 1 single round robin of 11 games played over those 14 weekends.

Division 2 and Division 3 finals will be completed on August bank holiday

At the very latest Club championship starts in September for championship 1 teams. For championship 2 and 3 teams it can start mid August. After club county championships are completed the season is over.

Following season recommences at the end of Feb/ Start of March with Provincial club championships. April for All Ireland club championship.

In March and April intercounty preseason competitions can be played ahead of the season proper.

Hurling would have 4 divisions of 10, 10, 8 and 7.

That's a pretty radical change. It would make for an excellent season for everyone.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2637 - 16/03/2019 06:37:46    2172503

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The club players can play league competitions without county players."
Agreed. Most county players don't play club league games anyway so clubs should plan on playing league games along side the league. This would give club players regular football. Similar to county set up I remember playing more football by April 1st in awful weather conditions than I played in the summer.

JuniorBee (Mayo) - Posts: 40 - 16/03/2019 16:38:40    2172629

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Something incredibly simple but very exciting would be a 3 tier league season played from May Day to the August bank holidays.

Championship 1 12 teams- 4 teams to playoffs
Championship 2 10 teams- 3 teams to playoffs
Championship 3 10 teams- 3 teams to playoffs

2 up 2 down between divisions

In both Championship 2 and 3. 2nd place hosts 3rd in a single semifinal for promotion and a place in the final. Top in each group automatically promoted.

May Day to August bank holidays is 14 weekends

Can have division 1 single round robin of 11 games played over those 14 weekends.

Division 2 and Division 3 finals will be completed on August bank holiday

At the very latest Club championship starts in September for championship 1 teams. For championship 2 and 3 teams it can start mid August. After club county championships are completed the season is over.

Following season recommences at the end of Feb/ Start of March with Provincial club championships. April for All Ireland club championship.

In March and April intercounty preseason competitions can be played ahead of the season proper.

Hurling would have 4 divisions of 10, 10, 8 and 7.

That's a pretty radical change. It would make for an excellent season for everyone."
Yes, I do feel 3 divs is the sweet spot - it's odd that over 40 yrs the NFL has used both 4 and 2 division set ups - but never 3.

Still, I wonder if 11 games in 14 weeks is a bit much for unpaid players in Div 1. Like my bye scheduling for Prov Hurling (A, BCD, E, ABC, D, E) - I think I would limit inter-county play to 2 out of every 3 weeks.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1613 - 19/03/2019 00:07:31    2173568

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I think the cleanest solution to the fixture issue is - make all inter-county players ineligible for their clubs - then club and county championships could overlap over a longer interval - say, 39 weeks, Feb 1 to Oct 31.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1613 - 19/03/2019 00:28:53    2173571

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Over 39 weeks, I'd like a 26-match season (say, best teams play 2 pre season, 20 regular season, 2 AI KO, byes to 2 Prov SF KO).

Championship 1 - 11 teams - 20 games - top 6 KO (1st hosts 6th; 2nd hosts 5th; 3rd hosts 4th) - Best of 3 winners to Final, Other 2 to SF - 9th/10th/11th for 3 down.
Championship 2 - 11 teams - 20 games - top 6 KO (1st hosts 6th; 2nd hosts 5th; 3rd hosts 4th) - Best of 3 winners to Final, Other 2 to SF, and all 3 go up - 9th/10th/11th for 3 down.
Championship 3 - 10 teams - 18 games - top 6 KO (1st hosts 6th; 2nd hosts 5th; 3rd hosts 4th) - Best of 3 winners to Final, Other 2 to SF, and all 3 go up.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1613 - 19/03/2019 02:38:34    2173579

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For greater reward for finishing higher in the table, I amend the top 6 KO in each div - top 2 to Championship Final (both go up) and Playoff SFs of 3v6 and 4v5 (Playoff Champ becomes 3rd team to go up).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1613 - 19/03/2019 10:25:03    2173624

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Replying To omahant:  "Yes, I do feel 3 divs is the sweet spot - it's odd that over 40 yrs the NFL has used both 4 and 2 division set ups - but never 3.

Still, I wonder if 11 games in 14 weeks is a bit much for unpaid players in Div 1. Like my bye scheduling for Prov Hurling (A, BCD, E, ABC, D, E) - I think I would limit inter-county play to 2 out of every 3 weeks."
I think the football could start the week before May Day.



May Day Bank Holiday weekend start the hurling and a 2nd round of football. That'd be a huge weekend of action.

Finish the Hurling and Football league sections both on the August Bank holiday with lower level finals in both codes that weekend. Hurling semifinals the weekend after, then Football Semifinals, Hurling Final and football final 4th Weekend in August.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2637 - 19/03/2019 12:30:13    2173671

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But why narrow the window - with a 13-week off season, we hsve a 39-week span otherwise - to be clear, I am going with 26-match intwr-counry season ONLY if such players don't play club as well - otherwise, I restrict inter-county play to a 17-week span. Make your choice !

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1613 - 20/03/2019 00:03:10    2173837

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Replying To omahant:  "But why narrow the window - with a 13-week off season, we hsve a 39-week span otherwise - to be clear, I am going with 26-match intwr-counry season ONLY if such players don't play club as well - otherwise, I restrict inter-county play to a 17-week span. Make your choice !"
No

The season could easily incorporate a 22/23 week season for IC with 17 weeks for club.

No one wants county players to not play for their club but no one needs for them to be around for an entire club season.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2637 - 20/03/2019 15:35:36    2173978

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The weather on Saturday made the case for moving the start of the league to April. Mayo have played in a hurricane and monsoon conditions so fat this year and while you can't guarantee that it won't rain throughout the spring and summer you can guarantee that the pitches will be in better playing condition.

Also I would play the club league games on the weekends that the county teams are off without the county players. This would give club players regular competition.

JuniorBee (Mayo) - Posts: 40 - 20/03/2019 16:04:08    2173990

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Replying To Whammo86:  "No

The season could easily incorporate a 22/23 week season for IC with 17 weeks for club.

No one wants county players to not play for their club but no one needs for them to be around for an entire club season."
I was just saying if one wanted to expand the IC game quantity while having club schedules overlap in the summer, this change would work - although you may not be in favor (I like the rugby provs being no longer representative of underlying club sides).

Btw - excl. IC players, how many games would you gave the 98% of club players actually playing annually - either over your 17 weeks, or 40 weeks (if 23 plus 17 weeks) ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1613 - 20/03/2019 22:53:10    2174088

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Replying To omahant:  "I was just saying if one wanted to expand the IC game quantity while having club schedules overlap in the summer, this change would work - although you may not be in favor (I like the rugby provs being no longer representative of underlying club sides).

Btw - excl. IC players, how many games would you gave the 98% of club players actually playing annually - either over your 17 weeks, or 40 weeks (if 23 plus 17 weeks) ?"
I played senior club football back in the 80's and it was a rarity to have our county players play a league game even back then. They only played in the championship. Club players main complaint is that you can go weeks if not months without a competitive game. If the league games were played every second week and the club games played, without the IC players, played on the weekends in between the county games it would give club players a regular schedule

JuniorBee (Mayo) - Posts: 40 - 21/03/2019 16:58:04    2174234

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Replying To JuniorBee:  "I played senior club football back in the 80's and it was a rarity to have our county players play a league game even back then. They only played in the championship. Club players main complaint is that you can go weeks if not months without a competitive game. If the league games were played every second week and the club games played, without the IC players, played on the weekends in between the county games it would give club players a regular schedule"
I am in the US 30+ yrs now, so sorry I don't follow the obvious. If there is a general point that IC players don't play club league games, what prevents club leagues being played every 2nd week ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1613 - 21/03/2019 22:10:53    2174278

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The problem's mainly involve getting championships run off in some counties.

Mayo in 2017 with the All Ireland not being completed had a back log of games.

They'd 4 rounds of Championship remaining to fit into 3 weekends ahead of the Connacht club championships starting.

A lot of counties would rely on free weekends in the summer/middle of the IC season to schedule championship weekends.

It'd be very much dependent on the results of the county team but prequalifiers it was easy to do as a county board would know the possible weekends they'd be playing. Rounds would be scheduled between say a Provincial quarterfinal and the semifinals 3 or 4 weeks later.

With the qualifiers it made it harder to schedule these games as there were more possible weekends the county team could be out.

Additionally more county championships incorporated group stages/double elimination style competitions.

They'd try to fit these games in, in an adhoc manner.

It just doesn't really work well to take this approach.

So the season needs a better structure, the county players need to get more games in the real season and club players need more certainty around their championship scheduling.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2637 - 22/03/2019 01:05:32    2174300

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My suggestion is to make the league into the championship. Keep the 4 divisions as is, but play home and away, this in turn guarantees every county at least 14 matches a year. Under the current system, a county like my own, will probably play around 10 matches a year(excluding O'Byrne cup). In division 1, the top 4 would go into the AI semi-final, while in the other divisions, the usual 2 promoted and 2 relegated would apply. As for the provincial championship's, what's the point? For Louth this year, a win over Wexford will see us then lose by 20 points + to Dublin.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1560 - 22/03/2019 07:36:16    2174305

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