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Rules - Here We Go Again !

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Replying To lilywhite1:  "So on the contrary then will allowing unlimited hand passing promote positive attacking football?"
Allowing unlimited handpassing makes it far easier to score against a blanket defence.

Handpassing of the only way of beating a good blanket defence.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 12510 - 19/01/2019 20:34:13    2158288

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Allowing unlimited handpassing makes it far easier to score against a blanket defence.

Handpassing of the only way of beating a good blanket defence."
Apparently there were 1.3 handpasses for every 1 kick under the new handpass rule. Under the old rule there were 3.5 handpasses for every 1 kick. I know which type of game I'd prefer to watch, but if I was a manager who picks 15 gym monkeys I'd also be glad it has now been scrapped.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2279 - 19/01/2019 21:11:47    2158301

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Replying To Soma:  "Apparently there were 1.3 handpasses for every 1 kick under the new handpass rule. Under the old rule there were 3.5 handpasses for every 1 kick. I know which type of game I'd prefer to watch, but if I was a manager who picks 15 gym monkeys I'd also be glad it has now been scrapped."
Here here

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4017 - 19/01/2019 21:29:49    2158304

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Replying To Soma:  "Apparently there were 1.3 handpasses for every 1 kick under the new handpass rule. Under the old rule there were 3.5 handpasses for every 1 kick. I know which type of game I'd prefer to watch, but if I was a manager who picks 15 gym monkeys I'd also be glad it has now been scrapped."
You'd prefer to watch blanket defenses having it easy then?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19290 - 19/01/2019 21:31:26    2158305

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Death knell for the three pass rule I believe was not how it would or wouldn't change the game for the better or worse but because it was clear that the referees were unable to accurately apply the rule, this rule is not capable of being applied with an acceptable level of consistency.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 93 - 19/01/2019 21:42:20    2158311

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Replying To Soma:  "Apparently there were 1.3 handpasses for every 1 kick under the new handpass rule. Under the old rule there were 3.5 handpasses for every 1 kick. I know which type of game I'd prefer to watch, but if I was a manager who picks 15 gym monkeys I'd also be glad it has now been scrapped."
Of course there'd be less handpassing when the rule prohibited the amount of handpasses.

There's nothing wrong with handpassing.

People don't like endless possession, going over and back the field. The rule didn't stop that at all.

All the rule did was make it more difficult to attack against a blanket defence.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 12510 - 19/01/2019 23:33:42    2158330

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Of course there'd be less handpassing when the rule prohibited the amount of handpasses.

There's nothing wrong with handpassing.

People don't like endless possession, going over and back the field. The rule didn't stop that at all.

All the rule did was make it more difficult to attack against a blanket defence."
Again chief

Spot on.

But you can only lead a horse to water

The only thing that will change the current trend of blanket/defense first strategies is a change in managerial mindset/approach

It's only a select few men that have turned the game in this trend. It is up to them how they setup their county panel.

It is their own approach that dictates and until that changes this is where we are.

Trying to implement a rule that makes it easier to defend in numbers was a very poorly thought out idea and no doubt showed a very knee jerk and telling lack of understanding.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19290 - 20/01/2019 12:22:33    2158368

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Replying To Soma:  "Apparently there were 1.3 handpasses for every 1 kick under the new handpass rule. Under the old rule there were 3.5 handpasses for every 1 kick. I know which type of game I'd prefer to watch, but if I was a manager who picks 15 gym monkeys I'd also be glad it has now been scrapped."
Yes there was more kickpassing under the new rule obviously,but from matches i was at the majority of those kick passes were 5-10 yards back or across pitch and back(some looked ridiculous),so didnt stop the lateral,slow play that has been falsely blamed solely on handpassing as teams still get players behind the ball.

The handpass rule actually encourages teams get get more men behind ball as the possibility of winning possession back increases with team being forces to kick the ball.

A better more simpler rule to ref, would be when enter opposition half you cant get back into own half with the ball. Forces player to take man on or move ball forward

macca999 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 858 - 20/01/2019 12:49:52    2158375

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Again chief

Spot on.

But you can only lead a horse to water

The only thing that will change the current trend of blanket/defense first strategies is a change in managerial mindset/approach

It's only a select few men that have turned the game in this trend. It is up to them how they setup their county panel.

It is their own approach that dictates and until that changes this is where we are.

Trying to implement a rule that makes it easier to defend in numbers was a very poorly thought out idea and no doubt showed a very knee jerk and telling lack of understanding."
I think this season will be interesting.

Dublin have really shown the blanket defence up as an effective tactic at the business end of the All Ireland championship.

The top teams are going to have to develop strategies for pressing and winning the ball back when they are behind.

Tyrone and Donegal were both aiming to play a more attacking style (except the first half of their super 8 game).

I actually just think competitive necessity will mean the game gets out of its funk.

Croke Park should be tightened for football matches also.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2512 - 20/01/2019 15:28:30    2158402

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All the GAA have to do is buy the book " how to play Gaelic football by Dick Fitzgerald " this book was published in 1914 and Dick was actually touting a 13 a side game back then .

The big part of Dicks philosophy was that players would hold their positions with only the 4 midfielders really having the license to roam, there was also a lot of emphasis placed on kicking the ball and that every ball kicked into a forward should be kicked in a trajectory that suited that particular forward.

Unfortunately our has got broken over the years and something needs to be done to fix it fast.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 9142 - 20/01/2019 15:52:10    2158409

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Replying To Soma:  "Apparently there were 1.3 handpasses for every 1 kick under the new handpass rule. Under the old rule there were 3.5 handpasses for every 1 kick. I know which type of game I'd prefer to watch, but if I was a manager who picks 15 gym monkeys I'd also be glad it has now been scrapped."
Showing your cluelessness again. In a first half of a McKenna cup game the keeper had the most possessions in the first half, backward footpasses and short footpasses is the majority of those numbers. Seriously lad give it up.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6305 - 20/01/2019 16:07:03    2158419

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Showing your cluelessness again. In a first half of a McKenna cup game the keeper had the most possessions in the first half, backward footpasses and short footpasses is the majority of those numbers. Seriously lad give it up."
You seem very angry for a lad posting on here. Under the new rule there was a huge increase in kicking in the game, and a 4% increase in backwards kicks. I'd accept that very minor increase in backwards kick if it meant handpassing was more than halved. One of the complaints was it stopped goals - in the McKenna and FBD finals which both played under the old rulethere was 1 goal scored in total.
You saying that the new rule made it easier for blanket defences reminds me of old fellas 20 years ago who went mad over short kickouts, believing that the further away from the goal the ball was kicked the less chance the opposition had of scoring, its a fairly limited form of 'thinking'. Even Colm Parkinson could see how the rule could make blanket defending redundant.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2279 - 20/01/2019 16:44:14    2158441

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Replying To Soma:  "You seem very angry for a lad posting on here. Under the new rule there was a huge increase in kicking in the game, and a 4% increase in backwards kicks. I'd accept that very minor increase in backwards kick if it meant handpassing was more than halved. One of the complaints was it stopped goals - in the McKenna and FBD finals which both played under the old rulethere was 1 goal scored in total.
You saying that the new rule made it easier for blanket defences reminds me of old fellas 20 years ago who went mad over short kickouts, believing that the further away from the goal the ball was kicked the less chance the opposition had of scoring, its a fairly limited form of 'thinking'. Even Colm Parkinson could see how the rule could make blanket defending redundant."
Yeah but I wasn't one of the lads going mad over short knockouts. Not angry just baffled at the cluelessness of people who don't get why it is a silly rule. I am all for new rules like the black card etc, once the idea is good on paper and can be worked on.

I am 34 by the way.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6305 - 20/01/2019 17:20:56    2158452

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Restricting how far you can play the ball back as in not back into your own 45 might encourage teams to press up and win the ball back but a way to prevent teams just sitting inside their own 45 also needs to be found. As the recent rule changes showed, indentifying the problem is easier that finding the cure.

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 421 - 21/01/2019 14:54:07    2158660

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Of course there'd be less handpassing when the rule prohibited the amount of handpasses.

There's nothing wrong with handpassing.

People don't like endless possession, going over and back the field. The rule didn't stop that at all.

All the rule did was make it more difficult to attack against a blanket defence."
For easier ref admin, I'd keep unrestricted handpass chain, but require defensive teams in possession behind OWN 65 to make 'ONE, two-line kick' with option to kick from behind OWN 20, 45 or 65 to beyond OWN 45, 65 or THEIR 65, respectively. Any change in possession within the 65m zone does not require the defense to make any additional kicks - only when the ball leaves and re-enters OWN 65m zone.

This is a simple rule change - easy to admin, not overly restrictive on hand passing and keeps game flowing.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1556 - 21/01/2019 15:45:49    2158673

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I think this season will be interesting.

Dublin have really shown the blanket defence up as an effective tactic at the business end of the All Ireland championship.

The top teams are going to have to develop strategies for pressing and winning the ball back when they are behind.

Tyrone and Donegal were both aiming to play a more attacking style (except the first half of their super 8 game).

I actually just think competitive necessity will mean the game gets out of its funk.

Croke Park should be tightened for football matches also."
I agree with this. 'Blanket defenses' will disappear over the next few years simply because it will no longer be a way to be successful. Good teams know how to beat blankets by using handpass moves to work through them. Some teams understand that right now (tyrone, donegal etc.) but others are slower to catch on, but they will eventually. As teams become less defensive we will see a natural reduction in these long passages of possession and handpassing.

The handpass rule would have actually rewarded defensive teams by limiting the team in possession. It would have killed the thing which will eventually solve the blanket defense problem. delighted to see it gone

himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 200 - 21/01/2019 15:57:41    2158676

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I think something needs to be done about backpasses to the keeper. But it needs to be a but more nuanced than just no pass to the keeper in any circumstance I think.

I think there is 2 ways it could go:

1. Keeper can't take a pass inside the 'D' or 21m line. This would allow keepers to join the play further up the pitch.. and take the risk of doing that if they want, but remove the simple get out ball for defenders and encourage teams to push up.

2. Alternative maybe is that keepers can only receive a pass inside the small square. would stop them joining the general play and being the extra man. defenders having to pass into the square would discourage them from doing it I think as it is risky. Would be more sympathetic to defenders, but still encourage teams to push up and create contests for the ball

himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 200 - 21/01/2019 16:10:46    2158680

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Count handpass chains to 3, or kicks to 1 - which is easier ?

If there were to be a periodic kick requirement during play anywhere on the field - where would you make it compulsary ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1556 - 22/01/2019 12:13:53    2158864

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Guys, I would really love to have this one rule trialled - it would open up the game, as you need players down field, and as you can't leave them blanket defensed, brings back man-to-man marking and contested balls.

Here it is -
The defensive team is REQUIRED to make a TWO-LINE kick pass across BOTH 65s, if they have not OPTIONALLY kicked from behind OWN 45 to beyond OWN 65.

So teams get two bites of the cherry - find a man in midfield with kick from behind Own 45, or put your teammate under pressure receiving a pass (by hand, or foot) or soloing beyond Own 45 to make the two-line kick. Violation results in a conceded free at Own 65.

Also, the Offensive team cannot pass or bring the ball back from beyond OTHER TEAM 65.

Let the game flow otherwise - no offensive mark or short kickouts, and allow sin bin and backward sideline kicks.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1556 - 30/01/2019 13:53:19    2160935

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Guys, I would really love to have this one rule trialled - it would open up the game, as you need players down field, and as you can't leave them blanket defensed, brings back man-to-man marking and contested balls.

Here it is -
The defensive team is REQUIRED to make a TWO-LINE kick pass across BOTH 65s, if they have not OPTIONALLY kicked from behind OWN 45 to beyond OWN 65.

So teams get two bites of the cherry - find a man in midfield with kick from behind Own 45, or put your teammate under pressure receiving a pass (by hand, or foot) or soloing beyond Own 45 to make the two-line kick. Violation results in a conceded free at Own 65.

Also, the Offensive team cannot pass or bring the ball back from beyond OTHER TEAM 65.

Let the game flow otherwise - no offensive mark or short kickouts, and allow sin bin and backward sideline kicks.

AND allow unlimited handpassing - the kick requirement will cause a limitation !

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1556 - 30/01/2019 13:57:11    2160937

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