National Forum

Rules - Here We Go Again !

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https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/bohan-believes-fourpoint-goals-are-worth-trialling-37643235.html

Another shot from the hip, perhaps ?  Why can't we 'unfreeze' the game by SIMPLY calling for the defensive team in possession of the ball to make a required '2-line kick' from any ONE of the following THREE options -

a) from behind OWN 20 to beyond OWN 45 (incl kick outs from the 20);

b) from behind OWN 45 to beyond OWN 65; or

c) from behind OWN 65 to beyond THEIR 65.

Once past THEIR 65, the attacking team cannot play the ball backwards across THEIR 65.

That's it - no restrictions on hand passess - no need for the mark - but to keep the game moving, teams have a liberal 30 seconds to cross THEIR 65 - so allow back passes too within that time.

What do you think ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1610 - 21/12/2018 11:20:06    2154903

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Replying To omahant:  "https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/bohan-believes-fourpoint-goals-are-worth-trialling-37643235.html

Another shot from the hip, perhaps ?  Why can't we 'unfreeze' the game by SIMPLY calling for the defensive team in possession of the ball to make a required '2-line kick' from any ONE of the following THREE options -

a) from behind OWN 20 to beyond OWN 45 (incl kick outs from the 20);

b) from behind OWN 45 to beyond OWN 65; or

c) from behind OWN 65 to beyond THEIR 65.

Once past THEIR 65, the attacking team cannot play the ball backwards across THEIR 65.

That's it - no restrictions on hand passess - no need for the mark - but to keep the game moving, teams have a liberal 30 seconds to cross THEIR 65 - so allow back passes too within that time.

What do you think ?"
Serious question, have you ever actually played the game? The suggestions keep getting worse

Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 422 - 21/12/2018 14:02:07    2154923

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I did, but many moons ago, before emigrating.

Also, while I feel you deserve an answer - I think physical and technical abilities are not intertwined.
For all the success Jose Mourinho had as a coach - was he able to play to the standards he'd require - I don't know, but I think not.

I think my rule changes are modest - just ensures there is a 'periodic kick pass of at least 20 metres'.
There is still plenty of scope for handpassing and building an attack like now - and I'd hope (would have to be trialled) that the kick requirement spreads players around / breaks the blanket defense.

I am serious with my suggestions - does anyone see value here ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1610 - 21/12/2018 21:18:19    2154959

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Following the deaths of young rugby players, 3 or 4 in France. The French rugby authorities want to change the tackle. They also want to ban the 2 man rugby tackle. Gaelic football, for all it's faults, is a relatively safe game. In rugby the tackling and power of the players is more ferocious.
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/dec/18/france-rugby-union-deaths

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1574 - 21/12/2018 21:33:01    2154963

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Replying To galwayford:  "Following the deaths of young rugby players, 3 or 4 in France. The French rugby authorities want to change the tackle. They also want to ban the 2 man rugby tackle. Gaelic football, for all it's faults, is a relatively safe game. In rugby the tackling and power of the players is more ferocious.
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/dec/18/france-rugby-union-deaths"
Hadn't heard of that incident. Player safety should be absolutely paramount and if rule changes are needed to ensure it then so be it IMO. American Football is a good example of this where they have gone to great lengths to ensure player safety. Leading with the helmet and late hits in the tackle carry severe penalties now.

None of the rule changes proposed in football at the moment are with a view to player safety btw. They are aiming to increase the entertainment value of the sport. We will have to wait and see if that is the result.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1498 - 21/12/2018 23:07:18    2154973

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Hadn't heard of that incident. Player safety should be absolutely paramount and if rule changes are needed to ensure it then so be it IMO. American Football is a good example of this where they have gone to great lengths to ensure player safety. Leading with the helmet and late hits in the tackle carry severe penalties now.

None of the rule changes proposed in football at the moment are with a view to player safety btw. They are aiming to increase the entertainment value of the sport. We will have to wait and see if that is the result."
The French are up in arms over the issue of the young players deaths. Gaelic football has it's faults- but it does not have the ferocious blocks and "hits" that rugby has. This issue though has been avoided really by the Irish sports media. Instead they have focused on the game of Gaelic football. The fairly safe game of Gaelic football!

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1574 - 22/12/2018 17:36:16    2155007

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I'm staying focused regardless of what's making it into this thread - comments masquerading as 'being on point'.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1610 - 22/12/2018 18:23:50    2155015

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Hadn't heard of that incident. Player safety should be absolutely paramount and if rule changes are needed to ensure it then so be it IMO. American Football is a good example of this where they have gone to great lengths to ensure player safety. Leading with the helmet and late hits in the tackle carry severe penalties now.

None of the rule changes proposed in football at the moment are with a view to player safety btw. They are aiming to increase the entertainment value of the sport. We will have to wait and see if that is the result."
Maybe they are mainly aimed at appeasing the pundits, which would be silly as our football pundits will find some other aspects to be negative about.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1554 - 22/12/2018 19:57:45    2155018

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Seriously, what is wrong with a 'periodic' kick pass requirement ? - would bring too much FOOTball, excitement we can't handle nor expect ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1610 - 07/01/2019 11:47:06    2155923

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Replying To omahant:  "Seriously, what is wrong with a 'periodic' kick pass requirement ? - would bring too much FOOTball, excitement we can't handle nor expect ?"
Watched the new rules yesterday and this forcing a kick pass is having a detrimental effect on the quality. Numerous goal opportunities were denied because of the handpass rule.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4968 - 07/01/2019 13:56:52    2155940

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Anyone involved in playing or coaching knew that the 3 handpass rule was perhaps the daftest thing they have ever tried to introduce. The result of a gang of auld lads sitting around a table worried that hurling is taking over. Absolutely sick and tired of change for the sake of change.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6380 - 07/01/2019 14:11:59    2155944

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Replying To gotmilk:  "Watched the new rules yesterday and this forcing a kick pass is having a detrimental effect on the quality. Numerous goal opportunities were denied because of the handpass rule."
Quality is in the eye of the beholder. The game has football in its name so the foot must play some part in the game. I know you can reply that the actual goal must be kicked but this is not entirely true as a loose ball may be flicked or punched to the net. In essence what you want could mean that once the ball is kicked out a goal can result in several handpasses and a flick to the net......hard to describe that as football.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 575 - 07/01/2019 14:26:22    2155948

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i was at the cavan game against Queens and i'll be honest i never seen any effect on cavans game at all. in fact they weren't pulled once for 4 passes. their game was very much kicking orientated and of a very good standard for the time of year. all the tactical experts out there should be able to see that the game is playable and i'm almost certain that given a year or even the duration of the league it could really open out the game of football. but i'll watch another few games before i sit firmly in either camp.

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 365 - 07/01/2019 14:29:23    2155949

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Replying To theweanling:  "i was at the cavan game against Queens and i'll be honest i never seen any effect on cavans game at all. in fact they weren't pulled once for 4 passes. their game was very much kicking orientated and of a very good standard for the time of year. all the tactical experts out there should be able to see that the game is playable and i'm almost certain that given a year or even the duration of the league it could really open out the game of football. but i'll watch another few games before i sit firmly in either camp."
Not the best game to be looking at the new rules, that was a facile win with not a lot of pressure on. You need a close game. I was at the Cavan Down game the week before and it showed the rules up to be a joke. Some lovely moves were pulled up due to a 4th handpass, and sometimes, when the players did have a better handle on the number of passes, the ball was worked back outfield so a kickpass could be got in before trying another move. So many scoring opportunities ruined due to this. I can't imagine the authorities were looking to reduce the amount of scoring opportunities. Not too often I agree with Brolly, but they attacked the symptoms rather than the cause of why there is so much handpassing. Here's the thing they miss though, sometimes over 3 handpasses in a row can add to a move, not take away from it. We need to incentivise kick passing at correct times, not hinder handpasses.

Some of the other rules needs tweaking or removing too. Realistically was passing back a sideline kick really an issue? That's pure silly. And after a sin bin, a player should be allowed to enter straight away. A Cavan player in the Down game served 13 minutes as the ball never went out of play in that time. Why does the ball need to go out of play? Surely the 4th official can just let him on when the time was served, it's not like he is replacing anyone that needs to come off.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 938 - 07/01/2019 14:51:21    2155953

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That interview with Dunphy and Tomas O'Se on youtube tells you why we're at this stage. Go watch if you haven't. It's pretty simple, no rules will fix our game, only attitude.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 7616 - 07/01/2019 14:58:30    2155954

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Can't believe lads on here are making out this rule is workable. Handpassing breaks down blanket defences. So stupid.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6380 - 07/01/2019 15:19:14    2155957

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Replying To MillerX:  "Quality is in the eye of the beholder. The game has football in its name so the foot must play some part in the game. I know you can reply that the actual goal must be kicked but this is not entirely true as a loose ball may be flicked or punched to the net. In essence what you want could mean that once the ball is kicked out a goal can result in several handpasses and a flick to the net......hard to describe that as football."
In that instance then maybe the toe to hand should be banned or curtail as perhaps the high fielding as it involves use of hands? The game has always used both hands and feet , tampering with it , is not always a good idea. I said itbefore I'm very undecided on the 3 hand pass thing. , I'm neither in favor or against it, yet.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 15918 - 07/01/2019 15:30:03    2155959

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Replying To MillerX:  "Quality is in the eye of the beholder. The game has football in its name so the foot must play some part in the game. I know you can reply that the actual goal must be kicked but this is not entirely true as a loose ball may be flicked or punched to the net. In essence what you want could mean that once the ball is kicked out a goal can result in several handpasses and a flick to the net......hard to describe that as football."
Have you watched any game with the rules yet? The ball is still kicked though. The bast majority of scores are kicked over the bar so I don't buy this line of 'theres no kicking in football anymore'. Self promoting arseholes are the reason this rule was brought in who are pining for a golden era that did not exist.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4968 - 07/01/2019 15:33:13    2155964

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Replying To MillerX:  "Quality is in the eye of the beholder. The game has football in its name so the foot must play some part in the game. I know you can reply that the actual goal must be kicked but this is not entirely true as a loose ball may be flicked or punched to the net. In essence what you want could mean that once the ball is kicked out a goal can result in several handpasses and a flick to the net......hard to describe that as football."
It's played with a football.

What percentage of scores are made with a kick?

Rugby and American football are codes of football that have much less kicking.

This whole the name of the game is football argument is so stupid.

We have a game, when you have 2 evenly matched teams that go at each other we have a really great game. We probably had fewer good meaningful games last season because the dubs were just so dominant.

If a rule makes the game worse it's a stupid rule regardless of whether it means more kicking of the ball.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2602 - 07/01/2019 15:38:54    2155971

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Whammo and Gotmilk and even Royaldunne speaking sense ;)

The handpass limitations will only favour the blanket defence in the long run.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 12579 - 07/01/2019 16:16:35    2155980

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