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GOAT

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Replying To seanie_boy:  "This Dub team is the greatest ever and if they were on the same pitch as any of the great teams of the past they'd hammer them out the gate. It's only a modern team that would have the conditioning to keep them winning by 6/7 or less."
Conditioning does not win finals- You need good footballers. Tyrone do not have any players near the quality of 6 or 7 on the AI winning teams. Tyrone's 'so called best players' do not have the athleticism of Dublin. Conditioning had very little to do with the poor shooting choices of some of the Tyrone players. The first penalty was not even a free.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 02/09/2018 18:43:58    2138455

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The greatest team of our decade no doubt. And you could definitely argue they're the best of all tim but don't think they'd beat the kerry team of the late 70s/80s. We'll never know and if that kerry team had strength and conditioning coaches and diet plans like all intercounty teams do now I think they'd be miles ahead.

galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 02/09/2018 18:44:57    2138458

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They've been the best team in each of the last 4 years, as well as in 2011 and 2013. That's good enough for me.

Don't care about any other debates.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 02/09/2018 18:51:06    2138461

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Replying To galwayfball:  "The greatest team of our decade no doubt. And you could definitely argue they're the best of all tim but don't think they'd beat the kerry team of the late 70s/80s. We'll never know and if that kerry team had strength and conditioning coaches and diet plans like all intercounty teams do now I think they'd be miles ahead."
Totally agree my friend. That kerry team worked daily, had a few pints most evenings and still won All-Irelands. The game has changed but i think the skills are not as good today[just my opinion].

GreenAndGold74 (Kerry) - Posts: 194 - 02/09/2018 18:52:29    2138465

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Replying To browncows:  "Conditioning does not win finals- You need good footballers. Tyrone do not have any players near the quality of 6 or 7 on the AI winning teams. Tyrone's 'so called best players' do not have the athleticism of Dublin. Conditioning had very little to do with the poor shooting choices of some of the Tyrone players. The first penalty was not even a free."
I take your point but if your out on your feet at 60 mins you are getting a hammering wether your shot selection is good or bad because you won't be winning possession and making the lung bursting runs to create the scores you need.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 02/09/2018 18:55:14    2138466

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very hard to disagree with the goat assertion but look at the advantages they have.play all games at home. half the population of the country to pick from.unlimited money available.once they got organised and will be into the future they should win 60% of all irelands. having said that the big refereeing decisions always seem to go with them. 2011 the free that cluxton scored was soft.in the drawn 2016 final the ref hadnt the balls to penalise denis bastick for a blatant pick off the ground and he 10 yards away from it? so they may be the goat but they have a lot of things on their side..

kavvie (Clare) - Posts: 505 - 02/09/2018 20:05:54    2138493

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In my humble opinion , ( god I'd take one connacht in a row, never mind 4 all Ireland in a row!! ) this Dublin team are incredible. One of the greatest of all time but will they win the 5 in a row??

How good was that wexford team in 1918- who knows?? That Kerry team was a few mins away from 5 in a row only for Seamus Darby's last min goal in the 5th final. In my opinion that Kerry team were the best ever regardless what this Dublin team do.

I don't think they will do the 5 in a row - for me the best teams that had to go for the 5 in a row were that Kerry team in '82 and the Kilkenny hurling team in 2010 and they both failed.

In particular I thought that Kilkenny hurling team were undoubtedly the greatest ever and Kerry in '81 and couldn't fail yet they reported of the pressure of going for the 5 in a row was too much for them. As good as Jim Gavin is, Ciaran Kilkenny, Brian Fenton Dean Rock, would you rank them over Brian Cody, Henry shefflin, Tommy Walsh, TJ Reid... or over mick O'dwyer, pat spillane, eoin liston, mikey sheehy , paudie O'se...

Now Dublin have entered the hallowed turf of going for 5 in a row the question is no longer is the football ability there (because we know it is) it now enters a different arena - the mental side.

Both Kerry in '82 and Kilkenny 2010 had the ability in abundance, some of the all time greateat players were there, and swatted opponents aside In the 4 in a row finals- yet pressure is a different animal. They failed for their drive for five.

How will these Dublin players cope under the same pressure?? Can Gavin succeed what o'dwyer and Cody failed?? In my opinion watch how the pressure gets to Dublin in 2019.

Pressure is a different animal

leitrim4sam (Leitrim) - Posts: 645 - 02/09/2018 20:21:41    2138499

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It is not easy to compare these things, some old men would argue that the 1970s Derry team were better than the 1993 team, they came up against fiercer competition in the 70s, Kerry and Dublin in semi finals. Derry won more Ulsters in 70s than 90s.

Then there is the qualifiers, Kerry may have won more All Irelands if there was qualifiers back then.

PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 223 - 02/09/2018 20:38:30    2138512

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Replying To leitrim4sam:  "In my humble opinion , ( god I'd take one connacht in a row, never mind 4 all Ireland in a row!! ) this Dublin team are incredible. One of the greatest of all time but will they win the 5 in a row??

How good was that wexford team in 1918- who knows?? That Kerry team was a few mins away from 5 in a row only for Seamus Darby's last min goal in the 5th final. In my opinion that Kerry team were the best ever regardless what this Dublin team do.

I don't think they will do the 5 in a row - for me the best teams that had to go for the 5 in a row were that Kerry team in '82 and the Kilkenny hurling team in 2010 and they both failed.

In particular I thought that Kilkenny hurling team were undoubtedly the greatest ever and Kerry in '81 and couldn't fail yet they reported of the pressure of going for the 5 in a row was too much for them. As good as Jim Gavin is, Ciaran Kilkenny, Brian Fenton Dean Rock, would you rank them over Brian Cody, Henry shefflin, Tommy Walsh, TJ Reid... or over mick O'dwyer, pat spillane, eoin liston, mikey sheehy , paudie O'se...

Now Dublin have entered the hallowed turf of going for 5 in a row the question is no longer is the football ability there (because we know it is) it now enters a different arena - the mental side.

Both Kerry in '82 and Kilkenny 2010 had the ability in abundance, some of the all time greateat players were there, and swatted opponents aside In the 4 in a row finals- yet pressure is a different animal. They failed for their drive for five.

How will these Dublin players cope under the same pressure?? Can Gavin succeed what o'dwyer and Cody failed?? In my opinion watch how the pressure gets to Dublin in 2019.

Pressure is a different animal"
They could win 10 in a row, it wouldn't matter, that Kilkenny team was on a different planet, and would be more deserving of the "goat" moniker.

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 02/09/2018 20:43:00    2138519

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Pressure is a given at this level leitrimforsam and there are things in place nowadays to help players deal with it. I wouldn't fear for Dublin in that regard.

The bigger question for me is can one of Mayo, Tyrone, Galway, Kerry, Monaghan or Donegal raise it enough to beat them in Croke Park? Based on this years evidence I wouldn't back any of those teams to beat even a below par Dublin. I think the 5 in a row is an inevitability at this stage.

I dont despair just yet because there are several teams with potential but if Dublin's stranglehold on the game continues in the medium term the GAA will have a big issue to deal with. Attendances are already down here and one of their priorities is to sell the game abroad. Nobody outside of Ireland will buy in to a game where one very privileged team strolls to the title each year, or even most years. Time will tell how it will all work out but as somebody said above it is an unprecedented and extraordinary time in football.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 02/09/2018 21:02:55    2138528

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Replying To browncows:  "Conditioning does not win finals- You need good footballers. Tyrone do not have any players near the quality of 6 or 7 on the AI winning teams. Tyrone's 'so called best players' do not have the athleticism of Dublin. Conditioning had very little to do with the poor shooting choices of some of the Tyrone players. The first penalty was not even a free."
If conditioning doesn't win all finals please tell me why sides don't have big heavy lads that have great technique playing?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 02/09/2018 21:17:15    2138534

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Replying To gotmilk:  "If conditioning doesn't win all finals please tell me why sides don't have big heavy lads that have great technique playing?"
The lads with the great skill with a bit of a gut get called in to trials and if their skills are good enough they are kept on the panel And given a diet and exercise plan to get their bodies in peak condition to perform their best. No amount of conditioning will make a poor footballer good if they don't have the skills to begin with. Dublin has a talented panel who yes have great strength and conditioning but the skills are there

galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 02/09/2018 21:36:43    2138540

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Pressure is a given at this level leitrimforsam and there are things in place nowadays to help players deal with it. I wouldn't fear for Dublin in that regard.

The bigger question for me is can one of Mayo, Tyrone, Galway, Kerry, Monaghan or Donegal raise it enough to beat them in Croke Park? Based on this years evidence I wouldn't back any of those teams to beat even a below par Dublin. I think the 5 in a row is an inevitability at this stage.

I dont despair just yet because there are several teams with potential but if Dublin's stranglehold on the game continues in the medium term the GAA will have a big issue to deal with. Attendances are already down here and one of their priorities is to sell the game abroad. Nobody outside of Ireland will buy in to a game where one very privileged team strolls to the title each year, or even most years. Time will tell how it will all work out but as somebody said above it is an unprecedented and extraordinary time in football."
The teams you name don't have enough good forwards to put dublin away or challenge them. Admittedly our defence wasn't great against the dubs. 2 of our most consistent backs were a no show that day, but we left so many scores behind us , the same with Tyrone today. I actually think that Donegal with mcbrearty would give the best test but still fall short. Galway on paper have fantastic forwards and some great ones on the bench but only Burke has consistently shown up. When the limerick hurlers won there was a lot of talk about the psychologist they have and she even got a mention in the winning speech. I know she was on board with dublin at one time. I really believe more emphasis on the psychology of a team. And I don't mean just fulfilling the quota by having a psychologist but get one that's great. Some players are confidence players and one wide can ruin their entire game these are the lads that really would benefit from a great psychologist. And now that dublin are so successful it's a mental test as well as physical one to play them

galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 02/09/2018 22:25:38    2138550

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I don't know where people are getting this Dublin will dominate until the end of the world nonsense. 10 years ago Kilkenny won minor, U21, Senior, Intermediate and another hurling title i've forgotten in hurling. Their second team would beat the pick of Ireland it was said. It took time but they are well and truly off their perch.

All great teams come to an end.

Kerry have won 5 minors in a row, talent will be brought through there.

Irish people have no middle ground perspective.. always extremes. Dublin will win forever, football is dead.. 2 of the populist cliches at the moment... always absolutes.

This money and population crap too. To organise your structures to produce 30 top male footballers is hardly beyond most counties like Donegal, Meath, Kildare, Cork etc.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 02/09/2018 22:46:18    2138562

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Replying To MesAmis:  "They've been the best team in each of the last 4 years, as well as in 2011 and 2013. That's good enough for me.

Don't care about any other debates."
And you know something your dead right.

Theres no method of comparison, no definitive set of criteria which defines who was the best over the years, comparing this years team to that years team, wheres the definitve proof that any team of any era is better than any team of another era? They cant play one another, the games are different animals, the approach of teams and preperation are different animals.

All you can be is the best in any given year in any competition that you partake in and thats what this Dublin team have been and will continue to be for quite a while imho.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1351 - 03/09/2018 09:40:26    2138634

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "I don't know where people are getting this Dublin will dominate until the end of the world nonsense. 10 years ago Kilkenny won minor, U21, Senior, Intermediate and another hurling title i've forgotten in hurling. Their second team would beat the pick of Ireland it was said. It took time but they are well and truly off their perch.

All great teams come to an end.

Kerry have won 5 minors in a row, talent will be brought through there.

Irish people have no middle ground perspective.. always extremes. Dublin will win forever, football is dead.. 2 of the populist cliches at the moment... always absolutes.

This money and population crap too. To organise your structures to produce 30 top male footballers is hardly beyond most counties like Donegal, Meath, Kildare, Cork etc."
The comparison with Kilkenny is interesting. They looked absolutely untouchable at the time but then again with a population of under 100k they were never going to be able to sustain that level. It really was a matter of time with them.

Looking at the age profile of the Dublin team they are going nowhere for the time being and they have several recent U21 winning teams to bolster their panel if needed. Senan Connell spoke on Sky yesterday about the incredible players that aren't making the panel due to the sheer depth of talent available. They have won six out of eight and their key men are in their mid twenties. They seem to have everything in place to do at least five if not six in a row, blowing away anything that Kilkenny team, or any county in history ever did.

I do agree that nothing lasts forever and i think if Gavin left for example we would see Dublin drop off a bit personally. He is a huge huge factor in their success in my humble opinion.

I am also hopeful my own county can mount a meaningful challenge in the future with all these young ballers we have, but I think thats 3-4 years away yet.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/09/2018 10:10:11    2138650

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there seems to be a lot of people out today to discredit dublins achievements using any means possible. this dublin team is unbelievable, they do not make mistakes!!! over 80% score conversion in the semi final, something similar in attacks to chances on goals, frees converted are above 85% over the whole year, that's phenomenal. people on here saying that kerrys team and kilkennys hurling team were better. what are you basing that on? nothing....only sentiment!!!!! if any of you have the time go and prove it by gathering up the stats on both of those teams in their 4 in a row exploits. the answer will come back Dublin clear as day!!!
take into consideration that they won yesterday missing Brogan, Flynn, Connolly and Bastick, players that were indispensable during all their other final wins!!!!
will it last forever?? i honestly don't know (population and money being the one difference between them and Kerry/ Kilkenny) but history tells us it won't. for the good of football here's hoping. history also tells us that after Kerry and Kilkennys dominance a new era of greatness began for football and hurling.

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 414 - 03/09/2018 10:16:36    2138656

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Yeah, they would have to be considered the greatest imho.
Their skill and fitness is second to none.
Above all though, their consistency is what marks them apart. They win League and Championship year in year out. They play wherever they have to and beat all comers.
Some might not like it but you cannot dispute their record. A record 28 championship wins in a row to add to those titles. Never contesting a final having been beaten previously.
That's good enough for me no matter what others may say.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 03/09/2018 10:22:33    2138667

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Replying To gotmilk:  "If conditioning doesn't win all finals please tell me why sides don't have big heavy lads that have great technique playing?"
Big heavy lads may also be very well conditioned but will win little- some are too well conditioned!. You should know that players need be able to run with pace. There are many teams very well conditioned carrying no extra weight, are fit to run around the pitch (maybe not very fast) but are not able to play good football and continuously make bad decisions and win little at both club and county level. Of course to be able to play football you need to be fit and that is the base but you need skill and work rate/teamwork. If conditioning made good footballers Dublin would not be winning 4 in a row! as many other well conditioned teams would be able to compete and beat them.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 03/09/2018 10:31:02    2138676

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I think there'll be a much different team after next season. After the drive for 5 I expect all those with 6 all irelands (could be 7 next year) to step away. I know people have said that its not the same team without Connolly or O'Carroll etc but Dublin could be looking at a big change when those players go. When Cluxton leaves, and I'm sure Evan Comerford is a decent keeper, but filling those boots is huge. I don't think we'll ever see the likes of a keeper who can kick as consistently and as accurately as Cluxton (Beggan is on the right path) and provide the base for Dublins possession game.
Dublin team 2020 will still be strong and it will all be about the next line of players coming through but experience wise it's going to be a bit lighter coming off the bench.
Dublin 2020 without the guys with 6 all Irelands:

1. Comerford
2. Murchan
3. Cooper
4. Byrne
5. Lowndes
6. Small
7. McCaffrey
8. Fenton
9. Howard
10. Scully
11. O'Callaghan
12. Costelloe
13. Mannion
14. Kilkenny
15. Rock

Still a great starting 15 but its all about what comes through between now and then to keep the bench strong.

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 03/09/2018 10:49:35    2138686

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