i hate it Mes.
I know i am in a minority of one when I say this and I know you and the other Dubs here will throw your eye's to heaven at this but in my humble opinion when I see Ciaran KK take possession 20 yards from an opponents goal, turn, run 20 yards backwards and handpass to a fella on the halfway line, a little bit of me dies
He did it a few times up in Omagh and it was so dispiriting
I dunno, i have fallen out of of love with football completely Mes
i hate what it has become. The game, for me, is dying and possibly already dead
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 7974 - 24/08/2018 16:15:31 2136345

That's grand Liam and your opinion but limiting handpassing, with the rules as they are, means that a team playing a proper blanket defence would have a huge advantage.

I think the current negative hyperbole is the biggest threat to the game as it has the potential to bring in change that'll completely kill the game imo. Limiting the handpasses would destroy the game.

Despite the obvious stupidity of making blanket defences more effective limiting the handpass would take away a huge facet of attacking play. Imagine receiving the ball on the 21 with your back to goal, your half forward is about to burst past you but you can't play him through on goal because the handpass has been limited in some way!

All the side ways handpassing is a symptom of negative football, not the cause of it.

The GAA need to be very careful. By all means try and tweek the rules a bit to make it more attractive but with the type of suggestions being put forward like shot clocks and limiting the handpass make negative football more effective!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 24/08/2018 17:01:17    2136366

There is a rule in Basketball where you only have a certain amount of time to cross the halfway line and into the oppositions half once the ball is in play. I think its 5 seconds or something. And once the ball has crossed the halfway line you cannot go back over the line back into your own half. A similar rule in Gaelic football could work imo where you maybe give a team 10 seconds to get over halfway.

Meath10 (Meath) - Posts: 183 - 24/08/2018 17:20:41    2136371

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 24/08/2018 17:26:09    2136372

There are a few little changes which would help, simple things.

Like banning a back pass to the keeper, at least then if a team pushes up 15 on 15 the safety blanket of having a keeper to go back to isn't there, it's a rule change that doesn't affect the game really.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1351 - 24/08/2018 18:23:07    2136388

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 24/08/2018 19:01:56    2136403

I outlined what I'd do in another thread, 13 man game not sure if I'd make any changes other than that. As someone else posted I would also be in favour of the Aussie rules tackle as it's clear but the problem with this is that it would end the long ball into the forwards it's a great example of bringing in a rule with good motives but not taking into account the possible cons. If you brought in the tackle you would have to bring in an optional mark, that would slow down forward play but it would atleast make the long ball a viable option. Maybe you could bring in an optional mark from inside the 21 metre line. But I think the 13 man game would be a start and certainly worth a trial.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1596 - 24/08/2018 21:56:56    2136436

In basic terms look to incentiveise items you want to see more of and find ways to discourage items you you want to see less of.

What do folks want too see more of in Gaelic football?
- more kicking of the ball seems like a common one
- more catching of the ball from a kick
- more one on one contests

What do people want to less of?
- Less hand passing
-.less cynical fouling
- Less possession football

Why do teams not kick more, it's a more difficult skill than a hand pass and you run a higher risk of turning the ball over. Teams will therefore hand pass more. If you say kick the ball long into the contested full forward line and the forward happens to catch the ball, he'll more than likely get swarmed and get turned over. Incentiveise the kick and the catch. Give a mark for a catch inside the 21 yard line from a kick pass. The player gets a few seconds to play on or gets a shot for a point. This rule should incentiveise forwards to stay inside the 21 yard line. It should encourage a team to use all the space inside the 21 yard line with say maybe three players incentiveised to stay inside. It rewards a good kick from a player out the field. Teams are given less incentive to always hand pass.
Now i suppose one might argue that you just put more men back to cover the forward but then the kicker has more space out the field to kick the ball accurately. The defending team then need to put pressure on the kicker thus having a little more one on one contest. In the donegal vs derry game odrhan mcniallais gave the most delighful kick from around midfield into jamie brennan, jamie brennan caught the ball though lost his balance, fell over and then got turned over - great kick great catch - no reward.
I know the gaa hour and colm Parkinson have advocated this and I think it's worth trying.

When a team are playing possession football the goalkeeper is a safety net for the team, if a team pushes up on the team in possession they can play the ball to the keeper and the team applying the offensive press are not rewarded. Tyrone hammered roscommon in croke park. At the start of the second half roscommon did though get a little joy pressurising the Tyrone possession game in the Tyrone half. Tyrone quickly countered this by using their goalkeeper as the man to kick the ball into the Tyrone forward line. Tyrone got two scores from goalkeeper assists and roscommon stopped the offensive press. If Tyrone couldn't go back to the keeper roscommon are likely to have kept going with their offensive press. The only exception to this is that you can kick to the keeper from a free. If you didn't do this you could end up encouraging the pressurising team to foul.

I heard Kieran donaghy on the gaa hour and he had ideas on the 50 metre move of a free for cynical play and the fact that Aussie rules has a system no cards that works well. He's a great fella to involve in a discussion about ways to improve the game because he plays loads of sports, basketball, international rules and Gaelic and gives very good perspective.

Aussie rules is having quite a debate about rule changes at the minute, with too much congestion and not enough scores being a challenge. It's definitely worth keeping an eye on what they do as the games have a lot in common.

Anyhow if you are to trial rules don't try too many at the one time and I'd say trial them in the sigerson cup first. There is always the chance of unintended consequence and really the only way to know is to trial them.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 696 - 24/08/2018 22:39:09    2136439

Any changes have to be easy to implement by Ref.
No back passes inside your defending half of field
No black card
Sin bin for 5 minutes

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 24/08/2018 23:10:36    2136443

A lot of the suggestions for changes would actually encourage the blanket defence , such as limiting the handpass. I think the 13 aside and having to have 4 players inside the attacking 45 at all times are the best ones. The kickouts having to travel to the 45 is good in theory but would an u14 keeper be able to do this. Sinbin is a must and should be never have been abandoned. I hate the fisted point and I think if this was done away with it would encourage players to go for goal.
In regards to modern football it's amazing we went so long before someone abandoned the old 15 on 15 game and changed to the packed defence.

catchturnscore (Longford) - Posts: 149 - 25/08/2018 09:34:49    2136464

In the thread I started about a potential shot clock... it was shot down within minutes as only encouraging a mass defence.
But I am not so sure.
A very good team like Dublin would just work the ball quicker and move the ball into the 'D' as quickly as possible.
If they lost the ball at team would have to get ready to chase back.

gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 25/08/2018 09:53:17    2136465

achara (Monaghan) - Posts: 563 - 25/08/2018 10:22:18    2136469

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 25/08/2018 11:25:16    2136475

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 25/08/2018 11:44:54    2136477

How about a 2 point line similar to a 3 point line in basketball. A large oval running from 10 yards in from the sideline on the goal line out to the 45. Shots from outside are rewarded with 2 points. The defenders will be forced to push out and defend this line creating more space inside.

It will create more exciting games because there will be more swings in the scoreboard similar to hurling.
Less fouling around the midfield because you don't want to give up a 2 point chance from a free.

Pantani (Dublin) - Posts: 48 - 25/08/2018 11:45:27    2136478

Offensive mark is a no brainer and should reward kicking and reduce the number of swarm tackles, which is the thing I hate most about the game personally.

I like the idea of moving the free up for cynical fouling but it could encourage diving when a player is tackled coming out of defence. The reward for conning the ref would be massive. I'd agree the black card is largely ineffective and poorly implemented so change is needed, not sure what.

Refs have enough to be doing besides counting hand passes and how many players are in each half. No backwards hand passes in your own half might be workable.

Lastly, implement the rules that are there. A rigorous crackdown on off the ball and tactical fouling is needed, bring in a second ref if needed or give the umpires radios and microphones and let them communicate with the ref properly.

And sort out the over-carrying. The inconsistency in this is very frustrating when it's called against you.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 25/08/2018 11:50:47    2136479

FarneyheadFarneyheart (Monaghan) - Posts: 14 - 25/08/2018 12:23:41    2136487

6 subs favour the stronger teams with deeper panels and has arguably a bigger impact at club level. I suppose whether your in favour of more or less depends on your own situation

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 25/08/2018 13:44:07    2136497

catchturnscore (Longford) - Posts: 149 - 25/08/2018 14:27:48    2136501

1. All kick-outs to pass the 45 m line before the ball may be touched by a member of the kicking team.
Penalty for infraction: A free awarded to the opposing team, to be taken from the 45 m line opposite where the foul occurred.
2. After a stoppage of play, unless a throw in called for by rule, the play is to be restarted by kicking the placed ball from the ground. This includes all free kicks, sideline kicks etc.
3. A player in possession may only score, a goal or a point, by kicking the ball.
4. No player may be inside his opponent's small rectangle before the ball.
5. The team awarded a penalty be given the option of taking a free kick from the 13 m spot or being awarded two points.
6. When a player gains possession of the ball via a hand pass from a teammate, he may only play the ball away by kicking it. He may not hand pass it. Solo runs and hopping of the ball not impacted by this change. Eliminates the need for the referee to "keep count".

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 749 - 25/08/2018 15:04:25    2136507

I'd like to see a rule where ridiculous rule changes can't be suggested and people stop being influenced by pundits, instead watch the games that are in front of them.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 25/08/2018 16:48:04    2136518