National Forum

Dublin Getting 2 Home Games In The Super 8s. Fair Or Unfair?

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The time to speak up was over 12 months ago. It's unfortunate for players to end up in a situation where their county board are making noises about venues well after the horse is bolted.

I do understand the concern but the terms should have been thought through. 'Croke park game', 'home game', 'away game' should be examined at the next congress or whatever the equivalent meeting of minds there happens to be.

If the GAA were to argue on loss of revenue as a factor in fixtures concerning Dublin in Croke park, then I would recommend that they throw on an extra concert to soften the blow. Ask Mayo and Kerry in 2014 about this. The GAA have proven to be very resourceful in fiscal planning.

Grounds that have premium and corporate boxes seem to be very important to the organization in the later stages of the competition. This too needs to be looked at in order to keep the grass roots of the organization relevant.

It would be a huge pity if decisions are going to be based around money. But there is a way around this if the will to change and accommodate is there at the top.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3385 - 11/07/2018 12:54:32    2120676

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There was no motion against the neutral games being fixed for Croke Park. The quarter-finals were originally neutral before becoming Croke Park games.

Times have changed however. With the Big Smoke playing regular league games in Croke Park, it's time to return to the tradition of semi-finals and final in Croke Park.

It's too late for this year but it's a change that should be made for next year. I think many would respect the Blue Smokes progress to the semi-finals this year if it included trips to Clones and Omagh along the way to get there. From the capital's point of view it will simply be a case of their rivals putting up or shutting up.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 5665 - 11/07/2018 13:03:25    2120681

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Sure that's it. It's all Croke Park's fault. Dublin will surely now take a leaf from the book of their 'country cousins' Kildare and offer an ultimatum to Croke Park. They'll tell HQ, no no no, unless it's an All Ireland semi final or final we don't want to go to Croker, no no no. Sure haven't we our own groundeen in Parnell Park. That's what will happen now because we know rightly that Dublin, in the interest of fairness, will do this. Watch this space, for a very very long time......"
Every county board needs to share some of the blame on this Super 8's issue...
Why didn't they all speak up at Congress when all this was agreed.??

This should have been very clear from the offset instead of all this nonsense....

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 2581 - 11/07/2018 13:03:50    2120682

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Some of the stuff here is just funny!

So, Spurs had no home games last year cause they were renting Wembley!

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 924 - 11/07/2018 13:03:57    2120683

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Replying To MuckrossHead:  "No need to go to all that expense & bother Fionn.

We have no problem with Croker being Dublin's home ground & we have worked for years with the advantage it gives Dublin. The advantage is not huge & most big teams are well used to playing there & enjoy it.

All we need to do is make sure that in the Super 8's there is one home, one away & one neutral for everyone. It means that everyone gets one game on their home ground & two games away from their home ground.

Problem solved."
Ah, but I now think that there is a real need for the Dubs to stop using Croker for home games.

The amount of moaning and whinging, going on about it is hitting record levels.
So best give ye no excuse and just move to a new or redeveloped stadium.

No point is being half assed about it anymore....
DCB - start getting the wheels in motion lads...!

#Timetoleavecroker

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 2581 - 11/07/2018 13:09:23    2120686

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Replying To tearintom:  "It has always been a congress issue.

Thats the point ive been trying to make for ages.

How our games are being run is farcical, this year has been farcical in the extreme."
Agree 100%. Congress is being run like a community centre, or parish hall. A bad one at that! Are we supposed to keep laughing it off 'That is the GAA for ya' ?

gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 941 - 11/07/2018 13:17:34    2120691

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There was no motion against the neutral games being fixed for Croke Park. The quarter-finals were originally neutral before becoming Croke Park games.

Times have changed however. With the Big Smoke playing regular league games in Croke Park, it's time to return to the tradition of semi-finals and final in Croke Park.

It's too late for this year but it's a change that should be made for next year. I think many would respect the Blue Smokes progress to the semi-finals this year if it included trips to Clones and Omagh along the way to get there. From the capital's point of view it will simply be a case of their rivals putting up or shutting up."
Ehm, trip to Omagh!!!

:D

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1852 - 11/07/2018 13:18:24    2120693

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I'm not so sure i am and if i am perhaps we are both guilty.

To answer your points honestly as an away attender, the league is fine as most counties in Div 1 have the infrastructure to cope with a cohort of hardcore 10 - 15k traveling support for a league game. The only time i remember it being an issue was they had to close roads in Cavan last year due to traffic and Kildare a few years ago couldn't accommodate an away game in Newbridge. Dublin games away from big cities tend to be on a Saturday night to allow high volumes in and out of places over a longer period time then condensed to a specific time on Sunday in my experience, with extra trains etc being put on.

It doesn't really come up in the summer primarily apart from the token away game given in Leinster that i said isnt really an away game. Im not so sure a low attendance is down to location or the context of the game, with no disrespect playing Carlow or Wicklow doesn't get the blood racing, i not so sure if those games were in Croke Park or anywhere else would the crowd be different. Still, i wonder could any other county manage those numbers away against the same opposition, i doubt it.

I think when you average the attendances over the last 10 years of the Leinster final there is a direct correlation to the population base of opposition and the attendance. For example in years were Dublin play Kildare or Meath the Leinster Final is in the 55k - 60k range, when we play Loais ofr went Meath we are in the mid 40s. Obviously there is far more people in Meath and Kildare then in West Meath or Laois. Thus you have to draw the conclusion that Dublin bring 40k to games and whoever the opposition make up the remainder, the Dublin figures look pretty consistent and are the only constant variable. I would disagree with you on last year as well, Kildare brought a crowd, id say 20k was being optimistic, ive been to Leinster finals with Kildare in the past ive seen more Lilly's at Leinster Semi finals to be honest. I suppose it depends what base you are coming from. I imagine it was a far bigger crowd then the round before the Leinster final so appeared huge. Like 7k being in Navan last week and likely far more on Sunday.

We will see this Sunday, apples and oranges may be and you can argue about the appe and oranges etc and about who feels coffers, the reality is though there is a reason Dublin are prime time on Saturday afternoon at 7.00. Its being billed as a main event, while Sunday is the under card, certainly not in a sporting context as it will be brilliant from a commercial and financial point of view. An example being the GAA didnt put its biggest fundraising and commercial entity up against a competing sporting event, what does that tell us about filling coffers......

I take your final point, but thats a sporting argument, Dublin are there to be shot at really, there is no where left for them to climb and down is the only direction. If another team is better at football they have to earn the opportunity of beating them and i suspect all these "inequalities" will disappear. Fatigue with Dublin dominance is clearly fueling so much of this unrest."
Username I respect your point of view, we aren't ever really going to agree so there's no point in batting the issue over and back. I've said what I've said and I stand by it but everyone has their own opinion and they are entitled to it. It'll be good to see the Dubs in Omagh, and other places in the future. There's an interesting month coming up, six weeks ago I didn't think we would be involved but we are and I'm looking forward to it. Hope everyone enjoys it.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 772 - 11/07/2018 13:21:48    2120696

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Replying To Ban:  "Some of the stuff here is just funny!

So, Spurs had no home games last year cause they were renting Wembley!"
Did the money from Spurs home games go to other clubs? No.

Dublin League revenue is divided among the 32 counties

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1375 - 11/07/2018 13:24:03    2120697

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Replying To Fionn:  "Ah, but I now think that there is a real need for the Dubs to stop using Croker for home games.

The amount of moaning and whinging, going on about it is hitting record levels.
So best give ye no excuse and just move to a new or redeveloped stadium.

No point is being half assed about it anymore....
DCB - start getting the wheels in motion lads...!

#Timetoleavecroker"
I would agree with you but only because it would let Dublin of the leash financially and would be huge financially and commercially, the GAA would then have a massive problem they couldn't control.

In a real world sense, its not a Dublin issue.

For the wider GAA world and likely congress decision its:,

Allowing Dublin to have a purpose built ground that the could independently have huge revenue streams to the DCB coupled with the loss of revenue removing them from Croke park would bring.

VS

Keeping Dublin in Croke Park, acknowledging its a home venue and keep suckling of their profile and accepting the inherent inequalities this creates.

Personally id go with option 1, but then im biased.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1852 - 11/07/2018 13:25:22    2120698

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "'Dublin rent Croke Park the neutral venue.' Neutral for all counties except Dublin you mean?"
It is a neutral venue for all counties they are free to rent it as weii. The Dublin hurlers have suffered in CP when Parnell Pk was not used.

gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 941 - 11/07/2018 13:30:36    2120702

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Replying To witnof:  "Did the money from Spurs home games go to other clubs? No.

Dublin League revenue is divided among the 32 counties"
So if you rent a ground and don't share ticket receipts with other clubs its a home venue!

This is getting complicated.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 924 - 11/07/2018 13:33:01    2120704

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Replying To Ban:  "Some of the stuff here is just funny!

So, Spurs had no home games last year cause they were renting Wembley!"
it's even worse than that, spurs only went one season with no home games but dublin havent had a home championship game since 2004. it's so tough on them they're at such a disadvantage.

NaomhNaille (Donegal) - Posts: 114 - 11/07/2018 13:37:07    2120705

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Replying To kildare73:  "Username I respect your point of view, we aren't ever really going to agree so there's no point in batting the issue over and back. I've said what I've said and I stand by it but everyone has their own opinion and they are entitled to it. It'll be good to see the Dubs in Omagh, and other places in the future. There's an interesting month coming up, six weeks ago I didn't think we would be involved but we are and I'm looking forward to it. Hope everyone enjoys it."
Agreed a chara, the time between games gets us all a bit riled up in anticipation.

Its great this year to have two Leinster representatives and ill be rooting for Kildare. Hope you enjoy the well earned games!

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1852 - 11/07/2018 13:37:52    2120706

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Replying To Fionn:  "Ah, but I now think that there is a real need for the Dubs to stop using Croker for home games.

The amount of moaning and whinging, going on about it is hitting record levels.
So best give ye no excuse and just move to a new or redeveloped stadium.

No point is being half assed about it anymore....
DCB - start getting the wheels in motion lads...!

#Timetoleavecroker"
Ah but then they would gripe about waste of gaa money on 25-35k stadium white elephant.Would the leinster council like it?
Revenue.

gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 941 - 11/07/2018 13:38:12    2120707

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There are better uses of money than building another stadium in Dublin which has a limited scope of use.

Youre talking maybe 6 games per year that are above the capacity of Parnell that it would be useful for.

joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 105 - 11/07/2018 13:41:09    2120709

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Replying To Gavvygavgav:  "...and Ger Gilroy hinting at an asterisk beside Dublin's success - what a pile of codswallop."
there is no doubt that congress were at fault here but it was a room full of delegates from every county including the executive at the top table . Surely when the Galway delegate miss spoke about 1 home 1 away and 1 neutral they would have corrected him .

But they did not correct him , you can portray him as doddery to help your argument but any competition is about fairness.. imagine this format was used in the Dublin County Championship and St Vincent's for example used Parnell Park week in week out and they got to play 2 games at home in their group, I'm sure kilmacud/Ballymun etc would not sit on their hands.

But again why have fairness when you can have an advantage…..

ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 127 - 11/07/2018 14:09:39    2120720

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Replying To witnof:  "Did the money from Spurs home games go to other clubs? No.

Dublin League revenue is divided among the 32 counties"
Because they rent the national stadium and Croke Park redistributes money nationally. Funny that some Dublin posters seemed put out by Kildare wanting to play home in Newbridge, calling it not fit for purpose or worse. A new found concern for so-called weaker counties was expressed. Where is the Dublin county ground that is fit for their purposes?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 4793 - 11/07/2018 14:10:57    2120722

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2 games in the 1 pitch is unfair but the GAA had 2 years to foresee this issue and didn't address it, down to money pure and simple, every county ground should be able to host matches regardless of attendance capacity, guarantee this will be changed for 2019 season

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1295 - 11/07/2018 14:13:18    2120724

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Replying To gormdubhgorm:  "
Replying To GreenandRed:  "'Dublin rent Croke Park the neutral venue.' Neutral for all counties except Dublin you mean?"
It is a neutral venue for all counties they are free to rent it as weii. The Dublin hurlers have suffered in CP when Parnell Pk was not used."
Cop on to yourself and don't sneer at people by insulting their intelligence.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 4793 - 11/07/2018 14:20:35    2120726

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