National Forum

Kildare Dis-Service To Smaller Counties

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Replying To witnof:  "Whilst some people are off signing from the hilltops about a great victory for Kildare, they have just gone and done a dis-service to all smaller counties.

By taking the nuclear option they will force rule changes that bring capacity, season ticket holders, number of seats etc into the equation so that I can see grounds that are under 15K to 20K capacity been cut out of the equation for hosting matches.

You will probably see in the end 3 or 4 (max) grounds per province been nominated as been of the standard to hold intercounty championship matches, or atleast qualifiers! This also makes sense in that trying to maintain 32 grounds to standard is impossible.

People screaming it was SKYs going or that it is only about the money (funny the GAA seems to be the only organistion that should run on air, and it seems all the hierarchy are making millions) when in case 8 000 is not enough to see a game of this magnitude.

I think the GAA ballsed up in not having this clearer before becuase Newbridge is not a great showcase ground for the GAA.

But the chances of these small counties hosting games in the future just moved closer to zero."
There is a home venue arrangement for teams drawn first in this round of the playoffs. The GAA should have honoured that agreement just after the draw was made. Once we were drawn against Kildare the capacity, the GAA told us, was an issue. Wouldn't have been an issue if they were drawn home against other counties. Future arrangements can be know predetermined before such draws are made when issues can be avoided. Common sense has prevailed. Had the GAA been open and honest about possibility on moving venues for capacity issues before the draw was made they would have done themselves some favours.

But they weren't.

Fair play to Kildare. Newbridge will be rocking on Saturday night.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 27/06/2018 17:54:26    2116078

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Replying To witnof:  "Whilst some people are off signing from the hilltops about a great victory for Kildare, they have just gone and done a dis-service to all smaller counties.

By taking the nuclear option they will force rule changes that bring capacity, season ticket holders, number of seats etc into the equation so that I can see grounds that are under 15K to 20K capacity been cut out of the equation for hosting matches.

You will probably see in the end 3 or 4 (max) grounds per province been nominated as been of the standard to hold intercounty championship matches, or atleast qualifiers! This also makes sense in that trying to maintain 32 grounds to standard is impossible.

People screaming it was SKYs going or that it is only about the money (funny the GAA seems to be the only organistion that should run on air, and it seems all the hierarchy are making millions) when in case 8 000 is not enough to see a game of this magnitude.

I think the GAA ballsed up in not having this clearer before becuase Newbridge is not a great showcase ground for the GAA.

But the chances of these small counties hosting games in the future just moved closer to zero."
Have to agree, the battle is won but the war is lost, the needs of the few, will marginalize the needs of the many.

What would you do if you are the GAA now, why change the rules of course.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 27/06/2018 18:01:01    2116082

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When is the last time Kildare played a championship match at home?

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 382 - 27/06/2018 18:01:34    2116084

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Have to agree, the battle is won but the war is lost, the needs of the few, will marginalize the needs of the many.

What would you do if you are the GAA now, why change the rules of course."
Couldn't disagree more. If anything Kildare have created a path for those teams you talk about to follow. How come none of you boys were saying all this when Wicklow were moved put of Aughrim? Instead of slyly beating out the usual smug Dublin mantra "ah sure we play where we are sent". Can't believe the gall of people who criticise Kildare for having what they see as having a not fit for purpose home ground and having to use the national stadium because their own isn't fit for purpose. Talk about giving yourself a free pass. And the GAA can't change the rule if delegates don't agree to it. It's not the Eastern Block we are living in.......As Kildare just proved.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 27/06/2018 18:25:36    2116091

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I never cease to be amazed by the holier than thou attitude of some Dublin supporters who think that because of the exhaulted position of their senior footballers they can lecture all and sundry on the rights and wrongs of the GAA world, and lecture about other stadia and fixtures no less.......come on please. Kildare were right to go to war and they have won, Roscommon went to war and won, both venues will see a decent revenue from both games which will help upgrading both grounds which are planned. It's high time games are spread more evenly about the place, Croke Park has been diluted and the achievement of playing there has been reduced to "just another venue", when the Dubs are playing home league games there constantly it dilutes the venue, booking double headers in Leinster dilutes the venue, attempting to book qualifier matches as double headers dilutes the venue whereas fixing matches to provincial grounds creates atmosphere, utilises seriously underused facilities and brings much needed revenue to local businesses, many of whom give money to the GAA directly or indirectly and deserve payback of some sort. Instead of Dublin raking in more cash at extortionate prices this weekend premises in Newbridge and Enniskillen will get a shot, albeit it should be Cavan Town but since Cavan decided to rip up their pitch mid season well they have shot themselves in their own foot. What must poor Wicklow be thinking now? They should have had Dublin in Aughrim and could have had Dublin in Aughrim as what has transpired in the past 24 hours shows, now I hope the rest of Leinster and the country wakes up, follows suit and realises that yes they can host the bigger teams, plus the H&S people need to stop moving the goalposts, capacities of grounds are varying from year to year as rules and regulations change, time to put a stop to this ridiculous carry on and definitively state the capacity of each county ground and what works need to be done within a certain time frame therefore giving every county a fair chance. Perhaps the Dubs, seeing as they have been so vocal on this issue, will now pay heed to Jim McGuinness and "offer" to forego one of their Super 8 games, don't use this waffle that the Dubs are forced to play there, Kildare have shown how it's done, follow suit boys and make us all proud........

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 27/06/2018 18:26:44    2116092

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Have to agree, the battle is won but the war is lost, the needs of the few, will marginalize the needs of the many.

What would you do if you are the GAA now, why change the rules of course."
Don't worry the rules will be changes to suit the elites. If Cork had gone out of the hurling championship with Tipp that would have been the end of that format.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 27/06/2018 18:28:33    2116093

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Have to agree, the battle is won but the war is lost, the needs of the few, will marginalize the needs of the many.

What would you do if you are the GAA now, why change the rules of course."
There was reluctance around the country to support the super 8 concept. A major selling point was having April "free" for club games (Doesn't seemed to have happened) and counties having the carrot of hosting a major championship game in the heat of summer at their home ground. The super 8's is on a two year trial - if the GAA start making it difficult for counties to host games then as we seen this week, the power of the people will intervene, ensuring delegates vote against extending the concept past it's trial period. The GAA need to listen and take it's members with them on a fair road.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 27/06/2018 18:52:10    2116097

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Replying To Richieq:  "I never cease to be amazed by the holier than thou attitude of some Dublin supporters who think that because of the exhaulted position of their senior footballers they can lecture all and sundry on the rights and wrongs of the GAA world, and lecture about other stadia and fixtures no less.......come on please. Kildare were right to go to war and they have won, Roscommon went to war and won, both venues will see a decent revenue from both games which will help upgrading both grounds which are planned. It's high time games are spread more evenly about the place, Croke Park has been diluted and the achievement of playing there has been reduced to "just another venue", when the Dubs are playing home league games there constantly it dilutes the venue, booking double headers in Leinster dilutes the venue, attempting to book qualifier matches as double headers dilutes the venue whereas fixing matches to provincial grounds creates atmosphere, utilises seriously underused facilities and brings much needed revenue to local businesses, many of whom give money to the GAA directly or indirectly and deserve payback of some sort. Instead of Dublin raking in more cash at extortionate prices this weekend premises in Newbridge and Enniskillen will get a shot, albeit it should be Cavan Town but since Cavan decided to rip up their pitch mid season well they have shot themselves in their own foot. What must poor Wicklow be thinking now? They should have had Dublin in Aughrim and could have had Dublin in Aughrim as what has transpired in the past 24 hours shows, now I hope the rest of Leinster and the country wakes up, follows suit and realises that yes they can host the bigger teams, plus the H&S people need to stop moving the goalposts, capacities of grounds are varying from year to year as rules and regulations change, time to put a stop to this ridiculous carry on and definitively state the capacity of each county ground and what works need to be done within a certain time frame therefore giving every county a fair chance. Perhaps the Dubs, seeing as they have been so vocal on this issue, will now pay heed to Jim McGuinness and "offer" to forego one of their Super 8 games, don't use this waffle that the Dubs are forced to play there, Kildare have shown how it's done, follow suit boys and make us all proud........"
It's called having an opinion.

You should be allowed to express such without being judged on your place of birth.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 27/06/2018 18:52:13    2116098

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Some very sheltered and self righteous posts from Dublin posters on here.

You dont have a valid opinion on the subject if your county gets 16 million for games development in the same time Kildare receives less than 600k.

You dont have a valid opinion on this subject when your real home ground, which is a similar size to st Conleths, is replaced free of charge by an 82k flagship arena.

You don't have a valid opinion on this subject when that flagship arena becomes a "neutral venue" when it suits the GAA for the super 8s.

Dublin fans dont have a clue what most counties have to deal with. Thats not their fault but it leaves them with an extremely blinkered view of the GAA world.

The GAA has become the sporting equivalent of the Tories.

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 27/06/2018 19:23:03    2116109

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Replying To jimbodub:  "It's called having an opinion.

You should be allowed to express such without being judged on your place of birth."
When that opinion is coming from a county that has had 16 million given in central funding in over 10 years it's and that money went into coaching/Development it's rather belittling to less fortunate.
You didint even have to invest in a new ground as the GAA give you croker when needed.
But feel free to tell others how they should do business.

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 27/06/2018 19:37:51    2116115

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Replying To jimbodub:  "It's called having an opinion.

You should be allowed to express such without being judged on your place of birth."
I've no problems with anyone opinions Jim but good God when you have such a monopoly on the National GAA Stadium no Dublin supporter can come out with a statement like Kildare have done a disservice to smaller counties, they have done the opposite and when the draw is made for next years Leinster Chanpionship in October I expect any county potentially drawn at home against the Dubs to have a home draw. The die has now been cast as far as I can see, the amount of season ticket holders a county has or the capacity of a ground a county has should not dictate a fixture unless there are serious flaws within a ground such as structural decay etc. And maybe this will wake up the Dublin County Board who have slept on this for years, they have never been so able to draw finance to build their own 30'000 capacity ground which would do them perfectly for all league and championship games up to a Leinster Final, instead they throw away money renting Croker for league matches, what they have paid in rent would have laid a good few blocks in a new stadium already. And maybe these social media pages that supposedly support the Dubs and kick dust into the eyes of anyone beyond Dublin 15 for "having an opinion" should cop themselves on and realise that their are others who don't have the privileges of the bigger counties, don't enjoy the benefits of home games too often or decent gates or benefits to the local economy and are now willing to fight for what they should always have had in the first place.........a bit of fair play, and that's not being anti-Dub it's just being factual.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 27/06/2018 20:36:06    2116136

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Replying To Richieq:  "I've no problems with anyone opinions Jim but good God when you have such a monopoly on the National GAA Stadium no Dublin supporter can come out with a statement like Kildare have done a disservice to smaller counties, they have done the opposite and when the draw is made for next years Leinster Chanpionship in October I expect any county potentially drawn at home against the Dubs to have a home draw. The die has now been cast as far as I can see, the amount of season ticket holders a county has or the capacity of a ground a county has should not dictate a fixture unless there are serious flaws within a ground such as structural decay etc. And maybe this will wake up the Dublin County Board who have slept on this for years, they have never been so able to draw finance to build their own 30'000 capacity ground which would do them perfectly for all league and championship games up to a Leinster Final, instead they throw away money renting Croker for league matches, what they have paid in rent would have laid a good few blocks in a new stadium already. And maybe these social media pages that supposedly support the Dubs and kick dust into the eyes of anyone beyond Dublin 15 for "having an opinion" should cop themselves on and realise that their are others who don't have the privileges of the bigger counties, don't enjoy the benefits of home games too often or decent gates or benefits to the local economy and are now willing to fight for what they should always have had in the first place.........a bit of fair play, and that's not being anti-Dub it's just being factual."
Jesus Richieq you are one angry man. And yes it is anti-Dub.

There is so much wrong with your reply but I feel you will burst a blood vessel if reply. And considering the length of your replies you would be up half the night typing.

But one small point. Dublin has GAA people who give their time freely to build clubs and communities, genuine GAA people like in the rest of the country. You and many of your elk seem to think otherwise.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 27/06/2018 21:04:49    2116142

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Replying To kildare73:  "Couldn't disagree more. If anything Kildare have created a path for those teams you talk about to follow. How come none of you boys were saying all this when Wicklow were moved put of Aughrim? Instead of slyly beating out the usual smug Dublin mantra "ah sure we play where we are sent". Can't believe the gall of people who criticise Kildare for having what they see as having a not fit for purpose home ground and having to use the national stadium because their own isn't fit for purpose. Talk about giving yourself a free pass. And the GAA can't change the rule if delegates don't agree to it. It's not the Eastern Block we are living in.......As Kildare just proved."
That's fair enough mate, it's important to disagree. Personally I don't think any one comes out of it well, either Kildare or the GAA. I can see both sides of the arguement really. In a sporting sense Kildare of course deserve their home game, in my opinion Newbridge is a very poor county ground that really shouldn't be hosting county games, that's the crux of it really, I bought tickets for this game as it goes, i was offered the opportunity for Newbridge tickets and declined based on the ground. I think it's a huge pity those that want to go to the game can't or in my case won't. It doesn't really promote Galiec games. To be honest I'd prefer to esee a heap of Mayo and Kildare kids running a muck in Croke Park then see them sitting in front of the box on Saturday watching it on TV. Everyone will have a different reason for their opinion and that's mine.

It's done now so time to move on and look to the future. Your right on Dublin to, maybe Dublin should exercise their will to play in PP as opposed to Croke Park I genuinely wouldn't be bothered sure it was grand for the hurling and wouldn't effect Dublin financially. Not sure many a Dub would have a problem with Aughram either certainly not me I've been in Newbridge for OB Cup games, Aughram is a massive upgrade.

I think you are wrong here, the GAA is a political organization and it's based largely on self interest either individually politically or collectively for financial gain for example the Leinster council consistently vote to keep Dublin in Croke Park almost unanimously (yes Kildare too). I think it's naive to think there won't be rule changes on venues or even consequences valid or invalid as they may be for Kildare, certainly they may sit on the naughty step for a while or do a bit for fundraising then anticipated for Newbridge redevelopment ironically.

Like I say I think the battle was won, but the war lost.

Just my opinion mind.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 27/06/2018 21:13:45    2116147

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Replying To Daith:  "Some very sheltered and self righteous posts from Dublin posters on here.

You dont have a valid opinion on the subject if your county gets 16 million for games development in the same time Kildare receives less than 600k.

You dont have a valid opinion on this subject when your real home ground, which is a similar size to st Conleths, is replaced free of charge by an 82k flagship arena.

You don't have a valid opinion on this subject when that flagship arena becomes a "neutral venue" when it suits the GAA for the super 8s.

Dublin fans dont have a clue what most counties have to deal with. Thats not their fault but it leaves them with an extremely blinkered view of the GAA world.

The GAA has become the sporting equivalent of the Tories."
Let's be honest here there were 60k at the Leinster final last year. 30k Kildare I think is a fair split. How many were at the game Vs Longford last week?

I don't think Kildare can take the moral high ground about giving others advice on how to support a team.

I'm not particularly bothered about the outcome of this "revolution' even if I was going to support friends playing.

But let's talk reality here throughout the 90s and the Mick O Dwyer era you were more then happy to play all your big championship and Leinster games in Croke Park so in a way hypocrisy is evident during this whole affair, I'd love to know where all the super fans went since 98.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 27/06/2018 21:25:14    2116152

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Replying To Richieq:  "I've no problems with anyone opinions Jim but good God when you have such a monopoly on the National GAA Stadium no Dublin supporter can come out with a statement like Kildare have done a disservice to smaller counties, they have done the opposite and when the draw is made for next years Leinster Chanpionship in October I expect any county potentially drawn at home against the Dubs to have a home draw. The die has now been cast as far as I can see, the amount of season ticket holders a county has or the capacity of a ground a county has should not dictate a fixture unless there are serious flaws within a ground such as structural decay etc. And maybe this will wake up the Dublin County Board who have slept on this for years, they have never been so able to draw finance to build their own 30'000 capacity ground which would do them perfectly for all league and championship games up to a Leinster Final, instead they throw away money renting Croker for league matches, what they have paid in rent would have laid a good few blocks in a new stadium already. And maybe these social media pages that supposedly support the Dubs and kick dust into the eyes of anyone beyond Dublin 15 for "having an opinion" should cop themselves on and realise that their are others who don't have the privileges of the bigger counties, don't enjoy the benefits of home games too often or decent gates or benefits to the local economy and are now willing to fight for what they should always have had in the first place.........a bit of fair play, and that's not being anti-Dub it's just being factual."
Richie in fairness

If you think this situation is a game changer you're wrong.

A simple rule change, a moving of a few words and now the CCCCC have the undoubted authority to change grounds based on demand for tickets which allows for more spectators to attend.

The GAA now will most likely react to stop this situation ever happening again.

It won't be done in such a way that will result in the organisation losing money that needs to be made to run the entire show from grass roots up.

This will change things. You're probably watching the last game where something like this is allowed to happen.

Now I know I'm from Dublin.

But I think I'm allowed to say the above without hearing highly debatable copy and paste efforts of tired old rhetoric that's only come about because we have a good team.

I'm expected to believe that money invested in school children since 2005 has resulted in men like Mickey Whelan, Pat Gilroy, Jim Gavin, Sherlock, Deegan, Brogan x 2, Kev Mc, Nolan, Fitzsimons, McCarthy, Brennan, Cluxton, Flynn, Connolly, Cullen, McMahon, Andrews, MDMC etc etc etc etc etc etc

This is the nonsense that people who don't have access to a calculator wants me to believe and are peddling on this very thread and are looking for any given opportunity to do so.. time and time again.

It's idiotic. It shows a complete lack of insight and understanding of the nature of games development funding.

It's funding spent to coach CHILDREN since 2005

We are told to play in Croke Park. Should we start insisting to the play all our games in Parnell Park now? I honestly would love that as it would be one less excuse..

Dublin have an outstanding away record.. they've played in 7 of the last 8 NFL Div 1 finals

The GAA tells us where to play chief.. the Leinster council votes to keep Dublin in CP. as O'Rourke said last Sunday regarding Dublin playing in CP.. how do you think all the coaches get paid in Leinster.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 27/06/2018 21:31:44    2116155

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Battle won , the war has just begun and will be won Username. Unwittingly this week GAA HQ have triggered the start of a revolution and like it or not are going to have to consider the reaction of the ' people' in every decision they make from here on in. The rubicon has been crossed.

facethepuckout (Roscommon) - Posts: 214 - 27/06/2018 21:39:03    2116160

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Richie in fairness

If you think this situation is a game changer you're wrong.

A simple rule change, a moving of a few words and now the CCCCC have the undoubted authority to change grounds based on demand for tickets which allows for more spectators to attend.

The GAA now will most likely react to stop this situation ever happening again.

It won't be done in such a way that will result in the organisation losing money that needs to be made to run the entire show from grass roots up.

This will change things. You're probably watching the last game where something like this is allowed to happen.

Now I know I'm from Dublin.

But I think I'm allowed to say the above without hearing highly debatable copy and paste efforts of tired old rhetoric that's only come about because we have a good team.

I'm expected to believe that money invested in school children since 2005 has resulted in men like Mickey Whelan, Pat Gilroy, Jim Gavin, Sherlock, Deegan, Brogan x 2, Kev Mc, Nolan, Fitzsimons, McCarthy, Brennan, Cluxton, Flynn, Connolly, Cullen, McMahon, Andrews, MDMC etc etc etc etc etc etc

This is the nonsense that people who don't have access to a calculator wants me to believe and are peddling on this very thread and are looking for any given opportunity to do so.. time and time again.

It's idiotic. It shows a complete lack of insight and understanding of the nature of games development funding.

It's funding spent to coach CHILDREN since 2005

We are told to play in Croke Park. Should we start insisting to the play all our games in Parnell Park now? I honestly would love that as it would be one less excuse..

Dublin have an outstanding away record.. they've played in 7 of the last 8 NFL Div 1 finals

The GAA tells us where to play chief.. the Leinster council votes to keep Dublin in CP. as O'Rourke said last Sunday regarding Dublin playing in CP.. how do you think all the coaches get paid in Leinster."
What does any of that have to do with the GAA reneging on the prearranged deal to give home venue to the teams drawn out first for this round of the qualifiers?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 27/06/2018 21:50:50    2116167

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The fact is the GAA were wrong.
I'm not surprised that a Dub started this thread and is weighed in with his fellow self serving county mates who need to realize it's not all about you. This is about fairness and competition rules.
Disservice my Lilywhite hat. Next time a decision is so disrespectful and wrong others might take this as the precedent to be proud and not take the central toe the line dictat the we are seeing more of in the comments here.
When you are wrong admit it or quit harping on with the same drone rubbish.
The GAA were wrong as are the people on here trying to stir with bully mouth threats of war and such nonsense.
Do ye want more or something.
Move on! Newbridge it is.

jonno (Kildare) - Posts: 260 - 27/06/2018 21:52:35    2116168

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Replying To witnof:  "Jesus Richieq you are one angry man. And yes it is anti-Dub.

There is so much wrong with your reply but I feel you will burst a blood vessel if reply. And considering the length of your replies you would be up half the night typing.

But one small point. Dublin has GAA people who give their time freely to build clubs and communities, genuine GAA people like in the rest of the country. You and many of your elk seem to think otherwise."
Your last paragraph is not in dispute and I have never alluded otherwise, and yeah I do get angry when fair play isn't utilised to every county, and again I am in no way anti Dub, think that if you will but I applaud this Dublin team and the work put in over many years by Dublin GAA people but that doesn't mean I should ignore the unfairness that abound regarding fixtures and venues, Dublin having two games in Croker for the Super 8's and an attempt to deny Kildare a home game is a perfect example, again just a fact

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 27/06/2018 22:03:43    2116174

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Richie in fairness

If you think this situation is a game changer you're wrong.

A simple rule change, a moving of a few words and now the CCCCC have the undoubted authority to change grounds based on demand for tickets which allows for more spectators to attend.

The GAA now will most likely react to stop this situation ever happening again.

It won't be done in such a way that will result in the organisation losing money that needs to be made to run the entire show from grass roots up.

This will change things. You're probably watching the last game where something like this is allowed to happen.

Now I know I'm from Dublin.

But I think I'm allowed to say the above without hearing highly debatable copy and paste efforts of tired old rhetoric that's only come about because we have a good team.

I'm expected to believe that money invested in school children since 2005 has resulted in men like Mickey Whelan, Pat Gilroy, Jim Gavin, Sherlock, Deegan, Brogan x 2, Kev Mc, Nolan, Fitzsimons, McCarthy, Brennan, Cluxton, Flynn, Connolly, Cullen, McMahon, Andrews, MDMC etc etc etc etc etc etc

This is the nonsense that people who don't have access to a calculator wants me to believe and are peddling on this very thread and are looking for any given opportunity to do so.. time and time again.

It's idiotic. It shows a complete lack of insight and understanding of the nature of games development funding.

It's funding spent to coach CHILDREN since 2005

We are told to play in Croke Park. Should we start insisting to the play all our games in Parnell Park now? I honestly would love that as it would be one less excuse..

Dublin have an outstanding away record.. they've played in 7 of the last 8 NFL Div 1 finals

The GAA tells us where to play chief.. the Leinster council votes to keep Dublin in CP. as O'Rourke said last Sunday regarding Dublin playing in CP.. how do you think all the coaches get paid in Leinster."
As you say, 'what about the children?, I feel the tears coming on.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 27/06/2018 22:14:33    2116183

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