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Why Does Everybody Have An Opinion On Hurling Relegation Now?

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I don't see the fuss with Offaly being relegated. They can rebuild in the McDonagh cup next year, and still compete in Liam McCarthy via that route. It's ideal for a rebuild really. Galway won NHL, Leinster, All-ireland in 2017 after 'relegating' to 1B NHL in 2016. This fuss about Offaly is rubbish. Once they're good enough to compete in the Leinster championship, they won't be worrying about being relegated out of it. Brian Cody was talking through his hat recently, in relation to the standard of teams in the Leinster championship. The Munster championship includes 5 of the top 6 7 or 8 sides in the country, depending on your opinion. That's imbalance for sure but it'll have to be persevered with, because the Munster championship is so legendary & 'great'. Knock yerselves out......indeed!!!

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3421 - 04/06/2018 12:02:33    2107240

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "I don't see the fuss with Offaly being relegated. They can rebuild in the McDonagh cup next year, and still compete in Liam McCarthy via that route. It's ideal for a rebuild really. Galway won NHL, Leinster, All-ireland in 2017 after 'relegating' to 1B NHL in 2016. This fuss about Offaly is rubbish. Once they're good enough to compete in the Leinster championship, they won't be worrying about being relegated out of it. Brian Cody was talking through his hat recently, in relation to the standard of teams in the Leinster championship. The Munster championship includes 5 of the top 6 7 or 8 sides in the country, depending on your opinion. That's imbalance for sure but it'll have to be persevered with, because the Munster championship is so legendary & 'great'. Knock yerselves out......indeed!!!"
The munster champship has never been as strong and leave well alone with the goal now to have at least 5 strong leinster counties plus antrim and galway..
Relegation of offally is not a strong starting point

tonydoranfan (Wexford) - Posts: 550 - 04/06/2018 12:24:26    2107250

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "I don't see the fuss with Offaly being relegated. They can rebuild in the McDonagh cup next year, and still compete in Liam McCarthy via that route. It's ideal for a rebuild really. Galway won NHL, Leinster, All-ireland in 2017 after 'relegating' to 1B NHL in 2016. This fuss about Offaly is rubbish. Once they're good enough to compete in the Leinster championship, they won't be worrying about being relegated out of it. Brian Cody was talking through his hat recently, in relation to the standard of teams in the Leinster championship. The Munster championship includes 5 of the top 6 7 or 8 sides in the country, depending on your opinion. That's imbalance for sure but it'll have to be persevered with, because the Munster championship is so legendary & 'great'. Knock yerselves out......indeed!!!"
I think that there is an undercurrent to all this criticism of the new system. A hidden agenda of undermining the new system by continuously highlighting a perceived injustice when in reality it's merit based system is actually a strength. Imo cody and the "traditional" county reps in the media are quietly against this system and for the obvious reason. The old system suited them fine and served their counties well. This new system waters down the power of their jersey and they don't like that. Don't get me wrong, I can see them coming to terms with this over the next few years but I think this system will ensure years of dominance will no longer be the case.

Tadhgmacda (Limerick) - Posts: 99 - 04/06/2018 12:38:37    2107255

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Replying To tonydoranfan:  "The munster champship has never been as strong and leave well alone with the goal now to have at least 5 strong leinster counties plus antrim and galway..
Relegation of offally is not a strong starting point"
What's wrong with it as a starting point? Offaly are clearly the 10th best team competing in the current Liam McCarthy championships. They can rebuild this season & next in the secondary competition, and are still eligible to win the 2019 McCarthy cup via that route.

The new structure is not causing Offaly to be at the level they're at. It's simply offering an accurate measurement of their status. They can either go up, down, or stay the same, from the current point, but at least with this structure, they can measure progress or lack of progress easily.

Instead of waffling on from year to year about 'what happened Offaly', and wondering would they lose by 10pts or 20pts to KK or Galway or Wexford annually in Leinster, they'll be at a level they can compete in next season, and playing in a competition that they can aspire to win. What's not to like?

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3421 - 04/06/2018 16:07:25    2107331

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Tadhgmacda and Pope Benedict I agree.
It is not like Offaly have been dominating underage, had a bad year, etc. They have been dreadful for about 15 years.
If they are the powerhouse they seem to be made out to be, they'll come straight back up.
It is a warning to Wexford and Dublin that we need to keep the work up.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 04/06/2018 16:52:08    2107341

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It pains me to say it, but Offaly are just not up to the LSHC at present. There is no guarantee that we will qualify from Joe Mc Donagh Cup next year, a lot of useful teams that we had trouble with over last 2-3 years.
A few senior players may retire next year, making it harder, but we just have to deal with it if it happens.

The key to success is developing underage, and we are making some progress now, after stagnating for a number of years. I will still follow Offaly as I have done for decades.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1741 - 05/06/2018 10:17:01    2107582

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I think everybody is getting a little too caught up in the Offaly situation. I don't agree that there should be automatic relegation in Leinster and not in Munster but do think that Offaly would have ended up relegated even if there was a play off against the last placed Munster team. They are the weakest in the Liam McCarthy currently but that doesn't mean that they don't deserve the same chance as say the bottom placed in Munster.

I mentioned in an earlier post that it was unfair to Kerry that they are required to play a play off in order to get into the Liam McCarthy. I think it is very unfair on Kerry. One poster said that no munster team would be unduly worried playing Kerry but again this is protecting the elite. Where is the reward for Kerry hurling who put in a massive effort to try win the Joe Mc Cup? In theory, Kerry can win the Joe McDonagh 4 out of 5 years but never play liam mccarthy. Laois can win it once and get in.

Kerry are entitled to be given the same chance of playing Liam McCarthy as any of the other Joe McDonagh counties

KK4Life (Kilkenny) - Posts: 56 - 05/06/2018 11:34:18    2107623

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Replying To KK4Life:  "I think everybody is getting a little too caught up in the Offaly situation. I don't agree that there should be automatic relegation in Leinster and not in Munster but do think that Offaly would have ended up relegated even if there was a play off against the last placed Munster team. They are the weakest in the Liam McCarthy currently but that doesn't mean that they don't deserve the same chance as say the bottom placed in Munster.

I mentioned in an earlier post that it was unfair to Kerry that they are required to play a play off in order to get into the Liam McCarthy. I think it is very unfair on Kerry. One poster said that no munster team would be unduly worried playing Kerry but again this is protecting the elite. Where is the reward for Kerry hurling who put in a massive effort to try win the Joe Mc Cup? In theory, Kerry can win the Joe McDonagh 4 out of 5 years but never play liam mccarthy. Laois can win it once and get in.

Kerry are entitled to be given the same chance of playing Liam McCarthy as any of the other Joe McDonagh counties"
Why should Kerry have to go into Munster? Geography? Relegation and promotion has to be merit based. For instance with two rounds left of the Mhc every team has at least 1 point. Offaly on the other hand have played all theirs and picked up 0 points. They lost each game by an average of 10 points or more in the group with arguably the second worse team also in it. I agree that a playoff should be there between the bottom teams in each group but I don't think it will make a difference in the short to mid term at least. If Kerry win the Mcdonagh they deserve offalys place based on this season. That's what's relevant and the conversation that should be taking place.. The other tweaks will happen going forward.

Tadhgmacda (Limerick) - Posts: 99 - 05/06/2018 12:40:02    2107648

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Kerry can't win the Mcdonagh cup this year as they are on 4 points with Carlow on 6 and even if they win this weekend they will lose on the head to head.

If Kerry had won the cup then they should have replaced Offaly in Leinster rather than a playoff in Munster.

But as big as the campaign has been to keep Offaly in a competition where they are losing by an average of 15 points per match, imagine if Cork were in that same position!

Let Offaly go down and they could easily be in an All Ireland quarter final match next year.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 05/06/2018 13:08:10    2107657

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Replying To Tadhgmacda:  "Why should Kerry have to go into Munster? Geography? Relegation and promotion has to be merit based. For instance with two rounds left of the Mhc every team has at least 1 point. Offaly on the other hand have played all theirs and picked up 0 points. They lost each game by an average of 10 points or more in the group with arguably the second worse team also in it. I agree that a playoff should be there between the bottom teams in each group but I don't think it will make a difference in the short to mid term at least. If Kerry win the Mcdonagh they deserve offalys place based on this season. That's what's relevant and the conversation that should be taking place.. The other tweaks will happen going forward."
Make it an open draw overall is my opinion, provincial championships aren't a big deal anymore. The main benefit to winning a provincial championship is a bye to the All Ireland semi.

In the current format, I totally agree that it should be merit based but without a play off between the bottom-placed teams from both groups the relegation isn't guaranteed to be merit-based. It would be very unlikely make any difference in the short term.

The current situation in the MHC is a bit irrelevant because when this system was dreamt up, who was to know that a team in Munster wouldn't have lost all their matches.

The GAA won't allow Kerry take Offaly's place because they want to protect the provincial championships.

KK4Life (Kilkenny) - Posts: 56 - 05/06/2018 13:31:16    2107669

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Replying To Tadhgmacda:  "Why should Kerry have to go into Munster? Geography? Relegation and promotion has to be merit based. For instance with two rounds left of the Mhc every team has at least 1 point. Offaly on the other hand have played all theirs and picked up 0 points. They lost each game by an average of 10 points or more in the group with arguably the second worse team also in it. I agree that a playoff should be there between the bottom teams in each group but I don't think it will make a difference in the short to mid term at least. If Kerry win the Mcdonagh they deserve offalys place based on this season. That's what's relevant and the conversation that should be taking place.. The other tweaks will happen going forward."
because kerry is in munster.should clare and waterford compete in connacht because they wont beat cork or kerry?why is that different?

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 05/06/2018 13:41:21    2107675

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I came across this on twitter, seems fairly definitive as to where Offaly are right now
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icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 06/06/2018 17:18:01    2108138

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