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Is Leinster Football Dead And Buried?

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I am really sick and tired of all the self-pity and whinging about Dublin's dominance. Mayo have consistently stood up to the Dubs and pushed them all the way, year after year - why can't some of the other traditional football counties man up and do the same? Some teams that would fancy their chances of beating Mayo have just rolled over and played dead at the sight of the Dublin jersey. Fair play to Carlow and Longford. Their attitude is a breath of fresh air and their progress is well deserved.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 996 - 01/06/2018 05:24:32    2106148

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Replying To Gaillimh_Abu:  "I am really sick and tired of all the self-pity and whinging about Dublin's dominance. Mayo have consistently stood up to the Dubs and pushed them all the way, year after year - why can't some of the other traditional football counties man up and do the same? Some teams that would fancy their chances of beating Mayo have just rolled over and played dead at the sight of the Dublin jersey. Fair play to Carlow and Longford. Their attitude is a breath of fresh air and their progress is well deserved."
Agreed , the real problem with Leinster is why Meath and Kildare are so poor, they should be up there with Mayo, Galway, Tyrone, Monaghan , Donegal , why are they are not at the level of these counties ?

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 01/06/2018 09:18:32    2106169

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Replying To superbluedub:  "Agreed , the real problem with Leinster is why Meath and Kildare are so poor, they should be up there with Mayo, Galway, Tyrone, Monaghan , Donegal , why are they are not at the level of these counties ?"
To be honest I imagine it's harder to motivate Leinster teams starting out in the championship. Chances are you aren't going to win your province, even smaller chance of winning Sam so ultimately you know you will end up completely empty handed. All the counties you list will believe they can have a good shot at their provincial title but in Leinster I think that belief doesn't exist. So it depends what you can tell these lads what success for them is and are they going to be happy with dedicating their year to making sacrifices to ultimately have zero to show for it. I think there are a lot more Paddy O'Rourkes out there. Apathy is a hard thing to turn around.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 01/06/2018 10:56:47    2106210

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Kildare are having in house issues

I don't rate their manager and to me he appears well out of his depth and his losing run of games is probably the worst in the country

Kildare 100% have the players to challenge any team in the country to a far higher degree. They should not be losing so many games in a row. It's that simple.

So why are they?

It's a dysfunctional setup at present - completely their own making and it'll be completely down to themselves to fix it.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 01/06/2018 11:20:35    2106215

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Replying To kildare73:  "To be honest I imagine it's harder to motivate Leinster teams starting out in the championship. Chances are you aren't going to win your province, even smaller chance of winning Sam so ultimately you know you will end up completely empty handed. All the counties you list will believe they can have a good shot at their provincial title but in Leinster I think that belief doesn't exist. So it depends what you can tell these lads what success for them is and are they going to be happy with dedicating their year to making sacrifices to ultimately have zero to show for it. I think there are a lot more Paddy O'Rourkes out there. Apathy is a hard thing to turn around."
Consider your chance in Munster over the last 100 plus years. Practically zero. Kerry have had it all to themselves with little or no competition outside of Cork rarely.
Fair play to Tipp & Clare now at least they are organising themselves properly and have proper managers in place.
They'll always be second fiddle in a hurling province but Meath and Kildare are a mess.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 01/06/2018 12:46:11    2106238

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Replying To kildare73:  "To be honest I imagine it's harder to motivate Leinster teams starting out in the championship. Chances are you aren't going to win your province, even smaller chance of winning Sam so ultimately you know you will end up completely empty handed. All the counties you list will believe they can have a good shot at their provincial title but in Leinster I think that belief doesn't exist. So it depends what you can tell these lads what success for them is and are they going to be happy with dedicating their year to making sacrifices to ultimately have zero to show for it. I think there are a lot more Paddy O'Rourkes out there. Apathy is a hard thing to turn around."
Since 1935, Galway and Mayo have shared 62 of the 83 championships. Worthwhile the Connacht teams bothering?
In that time, there has only been one winner of the Munster Championship outside Kerry or Cork. Why would Munster teams bother?

Kildare and Meath set-ups need to look at themselves and how they can improve, rather than whining about the blue menace to the east.

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 382 - 01/06/2018 13:46:12    2106262

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The whole provincial system is going to die (in football definitely and maybe hurling - munster hurling hype).

They could not have a complete removal so the super 8s was a compromise of sorts.

They could not have a complete revamp but jazzed it up a bit much llke hoganstand's new logo's a little bit of change elt people get used to it.
You don't want a complete revolution the die-hards would not go for it in congress, provincial councils are the problem.

gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 01/06/2018 14:04:03    2106269

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Replying To kildare73:  "To be honest I imagine it's harder to motivate Leinster teams starting out in the championship. Chances are you aren't going to win your province, even smaller chance of winning Sam so ultimately you know you will end up completely empty handed. All the counties you list will believe they can have a good shot at their provincial title but in Leinster I think that belief doesn't exist. So it depends what you can tell these lads what success for them is and are they going to be happy with dedicating their year to making sacrifices to ultimately have zero to show for it. I think there are a lot more Paddy O'Rourkes out there. Apathy is a hard thing to turn around."
There is only a very, very small percentage of people out there who play sports in either an amateur, semi pro, or professional level who ever have success if you want to define success as winning trophies/medals, the vast majority of sportspeople end up with 0 medals, 0 trophies in their cabinets, 0 big games/finals in front of mammoth crowds.

Look at professional footballers or part timers who play for minnows like Luxembourg, San Marino or Gibraltar, Some if not most of those guys have full time jobs just like gaelic players and know that they could play teams like Germany, Spain, Italy, France, etc and get snotted anything from 5 or 6 to 11, 12, 13-0 whenever they play. Imagine being a striker on that team and not getting a sniff. Theyre still doing it cause they want to do it. They do it cause they love the sport and they do it knowing, like players of counties like Leitrim, Waterford, Wicklow etc knowing their sacrifices will likely count for F-all in terms of what they'll get back in terms of trophies and medals but they will still have the memories of playing great teams, They will still have the stories to tell and you can guarantee that they enjoyed their time playing because lets face it, nobody put a guy to their heads, if they aren't enjoying it all they have to do it walk away.

Paddy O'Rourke wanted more from the game, He fell out of love with the IC game so he left. Im sure there are fellas who have played for Waterfords footballers over the past decade that have played maybe, 20 championship games, When Mayo played what, 9 ? last year alone including an all Ireland final. Im sure the Waterford guy knows the likelihood of him winning a Munster considering Kerry and Cork have won 116 of the 129 between them is virtually nil, And im sure the Wicklow fellas last week knew that when Dublin scored their first goal, And they went in trailing by 18 at half time that Leinster wasn't gonna be theres, but they stuck at it, And in years to come those Wicklow fellas can say they played against probably the greatest Dublin team ever to their grandkids.

Maybe to them, that is "success". There are 1000s of kids playing in club grounds and going to cul camps this summer who will aspire to wear their county colours one day, And not all of them will make it. Sometimes just getting a few minutes is a dream come through and anything after that is a bonus. Playing for a Dublin or Kerry team for years winning like they have been, that is luck that the majority will never, ever get.

Whether you are a GAA player, Pro soccer player, A gymnast, A darts player, Snooker player, Tennis, Cricket, whatever your sport is, You play that sport because you love it and that's your passion. Noone forces you to do it, and rest assured, Every single player playing for lesser counties, D4 counties know they aren't going to have very long summers, If they commit to it, good on them, and maybe its cause they just bloody want to and see the sport as something they love and enjoy, if even to get them out of the gaff.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 01/06/2018 14:23:59    2106282

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I read the responses to my post and to be honest I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Definitely this year something is wrong and I believe there's something in house going on. Last year people had us in the top 8 and we had reached div 1, this year we can't win a game to save our lives. It's clear we are badly coached, even though we are repeatedly told training is going so well, that plainly can't be true. You don't lose 12 games and be flying in training. I don't agree we wouldn't have done well were we hypothetically placed in other provinces over the last 100 years. I can't go back that far but we were in an All Ireland final in 1998 and semis in 2000 and 2010 so around those periods we couldn't have been too far off. People tell me we should be comparing ourselves to Tyrone, Monaghan, Mayo, Donegal etc. We lose by an accumlative 4 points to three of those teams in the league and Donegal got relegated with us this year. Monaghan and Tyrone took on "the blue beast from the east" last year after us and faired even worse than we did so what does that say about them and the standards nationally? People asked me to explain what's wrong in Leinster and I gave one reason that I saw and people call it whinging, fair enough if that's your point of view but it's a bit rich taking that from counties who criticise Leinster for letting Dublin dominate then when it's their turn fail just as miserably themselves or to an even bigger degree. We have one county have been able to consistently stick it to Dublin over the last few years, the blue beast from the east is dominating everybody, not just Leinster. I'd have a lot of faith in the young team Kerry are bringing along, but that's about it.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 01/06/2018 14:50:32    2106289

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I don't think it totally dead and buried. For me its just a very bad phase for all counties in Leinster bar of course Dublin. They have an ultra consistent and talented squad, proven winning credentials and nobody in Leinster can get near them.
Meath and Kildare have slipped back. Due to the slippage the likes of Carlow, Longford and Laois are now beating the ' beaten dockets'. Dublin will hockey either of Laois or Carlow in the final. Biggest disappointment from ourselves is we are not even prepared to man up to opposition now. This infuriates supports no end. There is no hard edge to Kildare or Meath. Regardless of what squabbles that may be going on within the Kildare camp players need to find a way to park it and be prepared to put the shoulder to the wheel when they cross the white line. Otherwise no point even coming out of dressing room and dirtying their little white socks!!

Kildare30 (Kildare) - Posts: 603 - 01/06/2018 15:22:10    2106295

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Replying To waynoI:  "There is only a very, very small percentage of people out there who play sports in either an amateur, semi pro, or professional level who ever have success if you want to define success as winning trophies/medals, the vast majority of sportspeople end up with 0 medals, 0 trophies in their cabinets, 0 big games/finals in front of mammoth crowds.

Look at professional footballers or part timers who play for minnows like Luxembourg, San Marino or Gibraltar, Some if not most of those guys have full time jobs just like gaelic players and know that they could play teams like Germany, Spain, Italy, France, etc and get snotted anything from 5 or 6 to 11, 12, 13-0 whenever they play. Imagine being a striker on that team and not getting a sniff. Theyre still doing it cause they want to do it. They do it cause they love the sport and they do it knowing, like players of counties like Leitrim, Waterford, Wicklow etc knowing their sacrifices will likely count for F-all in terms of what they'll get back in terms of trophies and medals but they will still have the memories of playing great teams, They will still have the stories to tell and you can guarantee that they enjoyed their time playing because lets face it, nobody put a guy to their heads, if they aren't enjoying it all they have to do it walk away.

Paddy O'Rourke wanted more from the game, He fell out of love with the IC game so he left. Im sure there are fellas who have played for Waterfords footballers over the past decade that have played maybe, 20 championship games, When Mayo played what, 9 ? last year alone including an all Ireland final. Im sure the Waterford guy knows the likelihood of him winning a Munster considering Kerry and Cork have won 116 of the 129 between them is virtually nil, And im sure the Wicklow fellas last week knew that when Dublin scored their first goal, And they went in trailing by 18 at half time that Leinster wasn't gonna be theres, but they stuck at it, And in years to come those Wicklow fellas can say they played against probably the greatest Dublin team ever to their grandkids.

Maybe to them, that is "success". There are 1000s of kids playing in club grounds and going to cul camps this summer who will aspire to wear their county colours one day, And not all of them will make it. Sometimes just getting a few minutes is a dream come through and anything after that is a bonus. Playing for a Dublin or Kerry team for years winning like they have been, that is luck that the majority will never, ever get.

Whether you are a GAA player, Pro soccer player, A gymnast, A darts player, Snooker player, Tennis, Cricket, whatever your sport is, You play that sport because you love it and that's your passion. Noone forces you to do it, and rest assured, Every single player playing for lesser counties, D4 counties know they aren't going to have very long summers, If they commit to it, good on them, and maybe its cause they just bloody want to and see the sport as something they love and enjoy, if even to get them out of the gaff."
Grand and that's all very fair what you said. But Luxembourg, Malta or Gibraltar players don't have to read threads on a Fifa website blaming them for European football being "dead and buried". Just like GAA players they are amateur and when you mentioned Paddy O'Rourke and his right to walk away when he wasn't enjoying it, what happened? He got berated on here for doing just that, he even got berated on national radio by a fellow county man. Did he deserve all that? To me, no he didn't. He gave an honest assessment of his reasons but people didn't like it. And lads are opting off panels and going travelling, but not many from the most successful counties. I know Jack McCaffrey went away but he was always coming back. You mention the likes of the lads playing for Wicklow and other so called weaker counties being able to tell the grand kids they played against the best team to play the game, so can the Kildares and Meaths too but somehow when we lose threads like this start up to beat them over the head with. If it were that easy to make Leinster competitive other counties would be sharing out the national trophies regularly but they aren't. The provincial finals in every other province last year were lost by bigger margins than the Leinster Final but I didn't see threads on here asking was Munster, Connacht, or Ulster "dead and buried ". Tyrone won Ulster by an average of nine points per game last year, Kerry sailed Munster. Why is it only Leinster that gets talked about?

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 01/06/2018 15:32:00    2106301

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Replying To Kildare30:  "I don't think it totally dead and buried. For me its just a very bad phase for all counties in Leinster bar of course Dublin. They have an ultra consistent and talented squad, proven winning credentials and nobody in Leinster can get near them.
Meath and Kildare have slipped back. Due to the slippage the likes of Carlow, Longford and Laois are now beating the ' beaten dockets'. Dublin will hockey either of Laois or Carlow in the final. Biggest disappointment from ourselves is we are not even prepared to man up to opposition now. This infuriates supports no end. There is no hard edge to Kildare or Meath. Regardless of what squabbles that may be going on within the Kildare camp players need to find a way to park it and be prepared to put the shoulder to the wheel when they cross the white line. Otherwise no point even coming out of dressing room and dirtying their little white socks!!"
Wouldn't disagree with you. We have the look of a team not pulling together.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 01/06/2018 15:34:18    2106302

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Replying To Kildare30:  "I don't think it totally dead and buried. For me its just a very bad phase for all counties in Leinster bar of course Dublin. They have an ultra consistent and talented squad, proven winning credentials and nobody in Leinster can get near them.
Meath and Kildare have slipped back. Due to the slippage the likes of Carlow, Longford and Laois are now beating the ' beaten dockets'. Dublin will hockey either of Laois or Carlow in the final. Biggest disappointment from ourselves is we are not even prepared to man up to opposition now. This infuriates supports no end. There is no hard edge to Kildare or Meath. Regardless of what squabbles that may be going on within the Kildare camp players need to find a way to park it and be prepared to put the shoulder to the wheel when they cross the white line. Otherwise no point even coming out of dressing room and dirtying their little white socks!!"
Such a patronizing post - Give Carlow and Longford their due - they are good football teams with a decent attitude and things are good in both counties . I think Kildare in particular have an undeserved high reputation. Kildare have and always had a soft underbelly - cruelly exposed most recently by a very well drilled and physical Carlow team who just pushed them aside. 7/1 outsiders !!!!!
Laois or Carlow will probably lose to the Dubs by around the same margin Kildare did last year.

Dublin are brilliant - this is not an excuse to moan. I really hope Dublin get 5 in a row, they deserve the accolades.

Leinster does not need a good Meath or Kidare or Offaly for that matter. What it needs is for all Counties to step up and stop whinging - Great teams don't last forever

Blackbog (Carlow) - Posts: 704 - 01/06/2018 15:40:06    2106304

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Blackbog there is nothing patronizing about the post. You beat us and well done. But you beat a beaten docket. I'm only concerned with state of Kildare football at the moment ...not giving you a clap on the back. Until any of the Leinster counties can put one over on Dublin then the cycle will continue. If you are the one's that beat Dublin than id be first on to congratulate Carlow but i cant see it happening?? However this Dublin team will eventually slow down (we hope) and hopefully one of us will get a crack at a leinster title.

Kildare30 (Kildare) - Posts: 603 - 01/06/2018 16:10:39    2106311

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Replying To Kildare30:  "Blackbog there is nothing patronizing about the post. You beat us and well done. But you beat a beaten docket. I'm only concerned with state of Kildare football at the moment ...not giving you a clap on the back. Until any of the Leinster counties can put one over on Dublin then the cycle will continue. If you are the one's that beat Dublin than id be first on to congratulate Carlow but i cant see it happening?? However this Dublin team will eventually slow down (we hope) and hopefully one of us will get a crack at a leinster title."
The one who is feels patronized is best placed to call it - i am sure it was unintentional.
Anyway water under the bridge and we are used to it
Your are right this Dublin team wont last forever - they have had barren spells also in the past
Kildare - I dont know - always nice footballers and in Johnny one of the best ever. They held their own with many teams in Div I this year but what I saw on Sunday was indecision and they looked intimidated. I was shocked form the get go and never felt we were going to lose after the penalty miss.

Carlow - yes we are rising - but we started from a very very laughable low ebb .

As a Carlowman I am just enjoying the moment. I have watched them since the 70's - - it don't come to Carlow that often - We have no pretense to greatest,just improving. The management team are second to none

Blackbog (Carlow) - Posts: 704 - 01/06/2018 16:40:04    2106316

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Replying To OhtobeARossie:  "Your correct if u took dubs out and put in similar level teams to laois Carlow wexford say leitrim limerick Antrim everyone would say that Leinster is the most competitive championship in Ireland."
Or Roscommon, Meath had you beat all Enda up and you needed a few dodgy ref calls to get away with the most undeserved draw in a long time. In Hyde

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 01/06/2018 22:32:39    2106376

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Replying To superbluedub:  "Agreed , the real problem with Leinster is why Meath and Kildare are so poor, they should be up there with Mayo, Galway, Tyrone, Monaghan , Donegal , why are they are not at the level of these counties ?"
Donegal got out of navan with a 1 point win last year. So that would say we at their level. Also we will see what happens with Tyrone. Btw Tyrone also got a bit of a hammering last year if dubs

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 01/06/2018 22:34:54    2106377

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Replying To Kildare30:  "Blackbog there is nothing patronizing about the post. You beat us and well done. But you beat a beaten docket. I'm only concerned with state of Kildare football at the moment ...not giving you a clap on the back. Until any of the Leinster counties can put one over on Dublin then the cycle will continue. If you are the one's that beat Dublin than id be first on to congratulate Carlow but i cant see it happening?? However this Dublin team will eventually slow down (we hope) and hopefully one of us will get a crack at a leinster title."
While ye wait for Dublin to slow down Carlow, Laois and Longford will go past yerselves and Meath as ye wallow in self-pity. The stupid media banging out the Kildare lost, Meath lost stories. They were well beaten by better teams in both cases. There was a Meath goalie, maybe close to retirement age who walked away in the past year. Not quoting him directly but was on the lines of 'won't win anything playing for Meath at the moment, I'm out of here'. There were people praising his 'honesty'. I live in Meath, lived in Kildare for 7 years. This is not what ye want in players. If the best players ye have have that defeatist atitude show them the door and get lads who fight for the jersey. Leinster football is very much alive. Just because the Dubs are far ahead and ye and Meath lost is no reason to think it has died. Like Tipp and Clare in Munster Laois, Carlow and Longford are making strides.Long may they continue.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7342 - 02/06/2018 08:19:43    2106402

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Replying To kildare73:  "Grand and that's all very fair what you said. But Luxembourg, Malta or Gibraltar players don't have to read threads on a Fifa website blaming them for European football being "dead and buried". Just like GAA players they are amateur and when you mentioned Paddy O'Rourke and his right to walk away when he wasn't enjoying it, what happened? He got berated on here for doing just that, he even got berated on national radio by a fellow county man. Did he deserve all that? To me, no he didn't. He gave an honest assessment of his reasons but people didn't like it. And lads are opting off panels and going travelling, but not many from the most successful counties. I know Jack McCaffrey went away but he was always coming back. You mention the likes of the lads playing for Wicklow and other so called weaker counties being able to tell the grand kids they played against the best team to play the game, so can the Kildares and Meaths too but somehow when we lose threads like this start up to beat them over the head with. If it were that easy to make Leinster competitive other counties would be sharing out the national trophies regularly but they aren't. The provincial finals in every other province last year were lost by bigger margins than the Leinster Final but I didn't see threads on here asking was Munster, Connacht, or Ulster "dead and buried ". Tyrone won Ulster by an average of nine points per game last year, Kerry sailed Munster. Why is it only Leinster that gets talked about?"
Your point on Lux, Malta etc is totally irrelevant to my response to you and in turn your response to me. What people in the media and people on fora like these say has nothing to do with

A) The point you made at first RE why players bother when they haven't a chance of winning

or

B) What ex players/pundits say in the media.

Your point and my response was about success and my argument was that if you where to judge success based purely on winning trophies and medals then there will and has been, an awful, awful lot of sportspeople who have ended their sporting careers as failure.

My issue with that is success is relative. What you feel is success is clearly winning, What others feel success could be a number of different things but again as I said in my original response, A Waterford footballer doesn't need all that many brain cells in order to know that, they likely wont win a championship game in their careers, and so they obviously bother for other reasons. cause realistically they will win nothing. Leitrim the same, Louth the same, London the same, Wicklow et al.

If people come on here and think football is dead and buried that's their right to do so, I agree these threads are a pain in the arse and I cant remember seeing a munster football is dead despite kerrys huge dominance .. I can only assume lazy journalism and people jumping on the anti leinster football campaign to suit their anti Dublin, poor *insert leinster county here* agenda.

but that's straying completely off of the point I was making,

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 02/06/2018 08:48:32    2106403

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Hold on here. Don't you support the county you were born in ????? Dublin parents living and having kids born in any other county should be encouraging kids to follow birth county. I'm not from galway but encourage my boys to follow galway. It's keeps the local and county community together. How maby dubs have branched out into surrounding counties? Dubs should gave more respect.....

Live_Wire (Monaghan) - Posts: 40 - 02/06/2018 09:38:30    2106409

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