National Forum

All Ireland U20 Football Championship 2018

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Replying To JDF:  "Competition gets underway this Friday night with games in Leinster & Ulster this weekend.

I'm surprised at those odds given Kerry's record in the 21's in recent years and that their best 2 players won't be available to them as Clifford & O'Shea are more than likely to play Senior football. Galway & Donegal had very good minor teams in 2016 and both have a few players left over from last years 21's although did Jason McGee play against Cavan for the Seniors?

As for the Dubs their a great price given their recent record.

Kerry Evens
Galway 5/1
Dublin 7/1
Mayo 10/1
Tyrone 10/1
Cork 12/1
Derry 12/1
Donegal 12/1
Kildare 12/1
Meath 20/1
Armagh 33/1
Roscommon 50/1
Laois 66/1
Monaghan 66/1
Offaly 66/1
Sligo 66/1"
Some price changes there. There is a drift on Kerry now at 7/4 with B (PP 11/8). Galway are now a best priced 4/1 (PP). Best price on Donegal is 10/1. Prices do vary so people should shop around.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 24/05/2018 18:48:04    2103654

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My apologies I did not realise that Laddies were offering prices. They are still 5/1 and 12/1 on Galway and Donegal respectively.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 24/05/2018 18:51:16    2103655

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Replying To JDF:  "Will the majority of the team come from the minor team of 2 years ago?"
Last two minor teams. I know we have not performed at minor lately but that does not mean you can't develop and push on.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11231 - 24/05/2018 20:48:20    2103672

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I really admire the passion and commitment behind your post mate, but i would say its a little misleading, Dublin are historically poor at minor level for many different reasons. Im not so sure we are the benchmark at that level with only 11 titles in our history 1930, '45, '54, '55, '56, '58, '59, '79, '82, '84, 2012. I think we have won 33 odd in Leinster which a poor return across the grades. All the more remarkable given the lack of success at minor but the massive success at U21 in quick succession.

Im not so sure its that telling toward the senior game to be honest, some counties go out for titles others use it as a vehicle for development and experimentation.

Dublin didnt win 1 minor title in 00's and one in 2012 but went on to dominate the decade at senior.

I think Dublin have an development approach to minor myself, its about playing games and exposure, less so about the end result, not that they dont go out to be competitive but its all about collecting the cream for senior at the end of the day, the U21's/20's is finishing school and the harvesting of that developed with an eye to senior, the difference between success between the grades is evident so the approach has been worthwhile."
I think you may be overthinking the reason for Dublin's relative lack of success at minor. I think some of Dublin's success at U21 level is down to having all their players available for regular training as they are all based in and around Dublin. Other counties face a logistical nightmare where their U21 players are spread between Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway at the various universities. I remember Jack O'Connor commenting on how little time he had with his players before they went into their first game last year. I'm not whinging or trying to drag the thread into another anti-Dub fest but I do think it's a very real factor.

Minor has always been much more straightforward as lads are in school and at home and can train a few night a week from early on as it's always been played in the summer.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 24/05/2018 21:24:55    2103684

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Dubs do leave Dublin as well mate, I think particularly at that age they can be scattered around the country attending university, college etc, some even go abroad.

Leaving the country to go to Dublin, is pretty much akin to leaving Dublin to go down to the country.

I don't think there is one main influence to be honest, I think it's a collection of a number of different facets if I'm honest.

To be honest I meant to post this in reply to ruling in the minor thread and does seem a bit Dublin centric in here.

But the realities success of some counties at minor and others at U21 is fascinating, Kerry and Dublin just in recent years are rich in one grade and benefit in another in the space of two years of two years of development,

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 24/05/2018 21:48:35    2103689

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Last two minor teams. I know we have not performed at minor lately but that does not mean you can't develop and push on."
Very hard to gauge how players will develop. I was very surprised to see u so short in the betting based on what I seen at minor especially in 2016. But u are better placed than me to judge.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 24/05/2018 22:38:32    2103701

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Replying To ROS1:  "Those games were at under 17 level."
Mayo supposed to have a petty decent panel this year.

Tizcold (Galway) - Posts: 239 - 25/05/2018 04:41:40    2103718

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Last two minor teams. I know we have not performed at minor lately but that does not mean you can't develop and push on."
Don't disagree but thought the last 3 Mayo minors teams have been very poor given Mayo's excellent record at minors.

I know Mayo won a minor in 13 and the same bunch won the u21 in 2016 but apart from that Mayo's record at 21 since 2010 has been dreadful and are probably in desperate need of a decent run.

JDF (Galway) - Posts: 322 - 25/05/2018 10:25:06    2103752

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Dubs do leave Dublin as well mate, I think particularly at that age they can be scattered around the country attending university, college etc, some even go abroad.

Leaving the country to go to Dublin, is pretty much akin to leaving Dublin to go down to the country.

I don't think there is one main influence to be honest, I think it's a collection of a number of different facets if I'm honest.

To be honest I meant to post this in reply to ruling in the minor thread and does seem a bit Dublin centric in here.

But the realities success of some counties at minor and others at U21 is fascinating, Kerry and Dublin just in recent years are rich in one grade and benefit in another in the space of two years of two years of development,"
I've lived in the west of Ireland (Galway City mostly) most of my life and i think i can count the amount of dubs i have met living/working here on one hand.

kazoochka (Galway) - Posts: 343 - 25/05/2018 11:16:42    2103760

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Replying To kazoochka:  "I've lived in the west of Ireland (Galway City mostly) most of my life and i think i can count the amount of dubs i have met living/working here on one hand."
Same here, there are a few that have summer homes down this side of the country.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 25/05/2018 13:41:17    2103780

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Same here, there are a few that have summer homes down this side of the country."
Plenty in Mayo too....my neighbours a few 100 yards up da road are dubs. Sure they love the west of Ireland ;)

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11231 - 25/05/2018 16:54:32    2103815

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Plenty in Mayo too....my neighbours a few 100 yards up da road are dubs. Sure they love the west of Ireland ;)"
They do indeed, at least we only have to look and listen to them for a few months every year :-)

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 25/05/2018 18:33:11    2103836

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "They do indeed, at least we only have to look and listen to them for a few months every year :-)"
Unfortunately we have had to listen to them the last few September's :( They are grand tho for the most part...great bunch of lads

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11231 - 25/05/2018 20:12:04    2103850

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Really enjoyed Donegals win today v Cavan. We looked very well drilled and Niall O Donnell was exceptional scoring 1-10. Hopefully for the likes of him and Jason Mc Gee who decided to go with the U20s instead of the seniors that they do well and possibly win Ulster.

Terrible that they are being asked to play next week again.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 27/05/2018 22:14:31    2104392

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Be interesting to see does young Coyne plays as named for westmeath tonight. He played at the weekend for the seniors making him ineligible. They may aswel start Heslin and a few others if the are going to break the rules

Cuckoosinging (Roscommon) - Posts: 992 - 28/05/2018 17:16:49    2104928

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Well it seems some managers are now learning what a ridiculous rule this is not allowing players eligible for the U-20's play in that grade if named in the senior squad. Colin Kelly spoke out about it and I imagine the Derry U-20 management will be ruing the rule too next weekend. Like who does it really benefit? Bar the cash cow on the east. At the time we heard about protecting player welfare yet the evidence points to the complete opposite plus does the welfare of the hurlers not matter? Hmmmm. For example Donegal will most likely have to play 3 weeks in a row. Tell me who in the Ulster Council was thinking of player welfare when they decided the prelim match at the weekend should be played after 2 quarter finals? Go figure. The same Ulster Council who ensured with their fixture programming last year that Donegal were at a disadvantage to their provincial counterparts outside of Ulster having played more games over a shorter period. On a slightly different tangent but also in relation to their fixture planning Donegal will play Derry in their quarter final as curtain raiser to the senior semi final. Meaning anybody who wants to see them will have to pay out for more over priced tickets.....a complete joke.

As for on the playing field difficult not to be impressed with the performance of the young Donegal team. Anybody who was in attendance will attest to the brilliance of Niall O'Donnell on the day. In truth though it was a good all round performance from a very well drilled side. The inclusion of Jason McGee was a big boost at midfield. In truth he cruised through the match just been back from injury but he is some unit for the grade. There were a few notable exclusions from the 2016 team some by fault but also by design which took plenty by surprise. The back 6 has a whole new look to the 2016 team. I imagine it is an area identified by the management for great improvement and early signs were good. Though there was some uncertainty under the high ball something which was a major Achilles heel against Galway back in 16 all in all they dealt with most of the Cavan attacking play well. There were also signs that this team will not be reliant on the 1 dimensional hand passing game which has proved a problem with Donegal underage teams outside of Ulster. There was plenty of variation of play with very fluid movement with all players very comfortable on the ball. Anyways we won't be losing the run of ourselves given past disappointments and the large shadow of Tyrone on the otherside of the draw. However I be disappointed if this team does not at least get to an Ulster final and make a mark outside of the province but of course time will tell.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 29/05/2018 01:52:27    2105132

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Well it seems some managers are now learning what a ridiculous rule this is not allowing players eligible for the U-20's play in that grade if named in the senior squad. Colin Kelly spoke out about it and I imagine the Derry U-20 management will be ruing the rule too next weekend. Like who does it really benefit? Bar the cash cow on the east. At the time we heard about protecting player welfare yet the evidence points to the complete opposite plus does the welfare of the hurlers not matter? Hmmmm. For example Donegal will most likely have to play 3 weeks in a row. Tell me who in the Ulster Council was thinking of player welfare when they decided the prelim match at the weekend should be played after 2 quarter finals? Go figure. The same Ulster Council who ensured with their fixture programming last year that Donegal were at a disadvantage to their provincial counterparts outside of Ulster having played more games over a shorter period. On a slightly different tangent but also in relation to their fixture planning Donegal will play Derry in their quarter final as curtain raiser to the senior semi final. Meaning anybody who wants to see them will have to pay out for more over priced tickets.....a complete joke.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 1254 - 29/05/2018 01:52:27 Why is under 20s not playing under 20 if in senior squad ridiculous? They will be training enough/playing with seniors. That is completely related to player welfare and isnt the opposite of that at all.
Playing 3 weeks in a row isnt a disregard to player welfare.

DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 29/05/2018 10:52:29    2105205

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Replying To Cuckoosinging:  "Be interesting to see does young Coyne plays as named for westmeath tonight. He played at the weekend for the seniors making him ineligible. They may aswel start Heslin and a few others if the are going to break the rules"
Heslin is overage silly

JR_Iarmhi (Westmeath) - Posts: 40 - 29/05/2018 11:18:23    2105212

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Replying To DonaldDuck:  "Well it seems some managers are now learning what a ridiculous rule this is not allowing players eligible for the U-20's play in that grade if named in the senior squad. Colin Kelly spoke out about it and I imagine the Derry U-20 management will be ruing the rule too next weekend. Like who does it really benefit? Bar the cash cow on the east. At the time we heard about protecting player welfare yet the evidence points to the complete opposite plus does the welfare of the hurlers not matter? Hmmmm. For example Donegal will most likely have to play 3 weeks in a row. Tell me who in the Ulster Council was thinking of player welfare when they decided the prelim match at the weekend should be played after 2 quarter finals? Go figure. The same Ulster Council who ensured with their fixture programming last year that Donegal were at a disadvantage to their provincial counterparts outside of Ulster having played more games over a shorter period. On a slightly different tangent but also in relation to their fixture planning Donegal will play Derry in their quarter final as curtain raiser to the senior semi final. Meaning anybody who wants to see them will have to pay out for more over priced tickets.....a complete joke.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 1254 - 29/05/2018 01:52:27 Why is under 20s not playing under 20 if in senior squad ridiculous? They will be training enough/playing with seniors. That is completely related to player welfare and isnt the opposite of that at all.
Playing 3 weeks in a row isnt a disregard to player welfare."
Of course it is especially in the middle of exams. The under 21 championship was just fine and if u argue it that way why has the hurling not been changed?

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2782 - 29/05/2018 12:45:02    2105242

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Replying To panamasam:  "
Replying To DonaldDuck:  "Well it seems some managers are now learning what a ridiculous rule this is not allowing players eligible for the U-20's play in that grade if named in the senior squad. Colin Kelly spoke out about it and I imagine the Derry U-20 management will be ruing the rule too next weekend. Like who does it really benefit? Bar the cash cow on the east. At the time we heard about protecting player welfare yet the evidence points to the complete opposite plus does the welfare of the hurlers not matter? Hmmmm. For example Donegal will most likely have to play 3 weeks in a row. Tell me who in the Ulster Council was thinking of player welfare when they decided the prelim match at the weekend should be played after 2 quarter finals? Go figure. The same Ulster Council who ensured with their fixture programming last year that Donegal were at a disadvantage to their provincial counterparts outside of Ulster having played more games over a shorter period. On a slightly different tangent but also in relation to their fixture planning Donegal will play Derry in their quarter final as curtain raiser to the senior semi final. Meaning anybody who wants to see them will have to pay out for more over priced tickets.....a complete joke.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 1254 - 29/05/2018 01:52:27 Why is under 20s not playing under 20 if in senior squad ridiculous? They will be training enough/playing with seniors. That is completely related to player welfare and isnt the opposite of that at all.
Playing 3 weeks in a row isnt a disregard to player welfare."
Of course it is especially in the middle of exams. The under 21 championship was just fine and if u argue it that way why has the hurling not been changed?"
Exams are a different issue. didn't think an under 20 would still be in Leaving Cert but if they are they are.

Playing 3 weeks in a row is not a player welfare issue. Training and playing with multiple teams is. Just because hurlers are doing something different does not make it right.

Primary focus of underage competitions should be to develop a player to Senior. If they are already playing Senior then there is no need for them to play underage. Let another player get the development on the U20 squad. It is not about winning underage cups. Once upon a time we used to get excited about that in Galway until we realised it wasn't translating to Senior success.

The real issue is the U20 who is good enough for Senior squad is also playing U20 and Senior for his club. If he plays hurling he is probably playing U20 and Senior hurling for club as well. That is 6 teams without even mentioning schools or college teams.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 29/05/2018 13:23:12    2105263

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