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Professor Niall Moyna says Dublin are too dominant

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Replying To kildare73: "I wouldn't disagree with any of what you say there. But leaving all slagging aside and asking a straight question and given that the GAA said back in 2005 that they wanted to boost football in the capital, is it your opinion that the GAA have had no hand in helping Dublin above every other county? I'm really not sniping here because this thread degenerated into that and we can surely have a serious debate without it." The dubs are falling over themselves, several even in this very thread to tell you about how well they have spent all these millions. I'd be interested to know how they are gauging the effectiveness of the investment if not through results on the field. Two posts later they will tell you that they just have an extraordinary team and money is nothing to do with it. It's one or the other surely. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/02/2018 11:29:33 2073545 Link
Replying To kildare73: "I wouldn't disagree with any of what you say there. But leaving all slagging aside and asking a straight question and given that the GAA said back in 2005 that they wanted to boost football in the capital, is it your opinion that the GAA have had no hand in helping Dublin above every other county? I'm really not sniping here because this thread degenerated into that and we can surely have a serious debate without it." That's the nub of all of this isn't it? And I'd be surprised if any Dublin poster will address this simple question that you and Gerry have put forward. Username is a good man to argue the point but this is what it boils down to in the end and I can't see how anyone can deny it. But many will, just look at another tiresome Dublin poster on here replying three times to every post and saying the same unsubstantiated nonesense every time, the thread is 9 pages long and half of it is him saying the same thing. Any yet interestingly this is my 4th attempt in the last day to try and post something, the other three not getting through for some bizarre reason. I know Kingdomboy has also complained before about having posts not being put up. It's a very reveling insight into how the mods control the site. Let some Dublin posters post up nonsense over and over but gag others trying to rebuttal. Anyway the one tiny crumb of comfort in all of this is that Dublin's finances are now well and truly under the microscope and whether they go on to do 4 or 5 in a row or never win an All-Ireland again that is how it should remain. Success or lack there of should not mask this blatant financial inequality. Ní bhíonn deatach ann gan tine, as my Nan used say, no smoke without a fire hence the media coverage these days. TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 03/02/2018 11:45:02 2073551 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "The dubs are falling over themselves, several even in this very thread to tell you about how well they have spent all these millions. I'd be interested to know how they are gauging the effectiveness of the investment if not through results on the field. Two posts later they will tell you that they just have an extraordinary team and money is nothing to do with it. It's one or the other surely." Ohhh Would you ever give it a rest Jaysus you've enjoyed an overwhelming advantage for over a century down there One foot in a semifinal year after year Sorry that your handy All Ireland's have dried up.. but get bloody use to it jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 03/02/2018 11:49:48 2073552 Link
It's funny how it's too much to do with money now that Dublin are winning. Kerry are better financed than most counties and are operating in essentially a hurling province traditionally. Surely this is an unfair advantage. Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 03/02/2018 12:02:38 2073554 Link
Dubs will always have plenty of funding because of its size and population Dublin will never be split The GAA have started to reduce funds and increase funding to other Eastern counties There isn't a brass cent of games development spent on our senior football team or hurling team You could spend only 10 grand a year on the current crop of outstanding football players and they'd still be capable of winning Sam We have a crop of natural footballers, they can all kick off both feet and play in multiple positions, their drive and commitment is undoubtedly an example to every young boy and girl in the country. They possess all the components necessary to be the very best and easily one if not the greatest team to ever play the game This is an urban v rural debate and I'm sorry lads but just like in the real world as we can see it's just the way it is. Urban life is winning and that's the way it is. The GAA was absolutely right to green light Dublin GAA's initiatives but I would agree that it is 100% time to reduce that now and I welcome the reduction and I welcome the investment plan going into Eastern counties Dublin GAA has the means, talent, ambition, commitment, passion and drive to make up the short fall and I'd like to see a further reduction down the line. Dublin GAA is well up to the task and delivering on Andy Kettle's love of Dublin GAA and the volunteers on the ground are as passionate as anyone to deliver and hand over their time. But the fact remains Mayo spent the most in 2016 on their senior football team and won absolutely nothing. Money helps no doubt and there are many counties spending very big. As long as our rivals are spending big, then we'll be doing the same. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 03/02/2018 12:10:36 2073556 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "It's also an unfortunate approach to deflect away from the debate by bringing in all sorts of irrelevant points and dragging it in to a childish spat (not saying you have done this but that is what happens to most threads on here including this one) Would be interested in your own personal opinion Username as you are one of the more rational posters on here. Do you think all of the additional investment Dublin enjoyed over the years through games development and ISC has had an impact on the pitch at senior and underage levels? Yes or no? My own opinion for what it is worth is that the potential was always there given the population and logistics, and that the money was the catalyst needed to realise it." I tend to agree mate, i hate when these threads descend into polarized my county is better then yours rubbish at anyone time you will be up or down and we we all get a turn at both. To be honest mate i don believe the investment and there was a concerted effort to fund Dublin well to develop games in the county led to the current success. If you look at the time line of the increased funding people seem to have an issue with from 2005 you are not going to win an All Ireland 2011 onward with young players who would have benefited from underage coaching, facilities etc its a mathematical impossibility. Were players like Flynn, Connolly, Cluxton, McMahon, COS, MDM made by finance given the timelines, no. Additionally if you look at many of the Dublin players, many of them are legacy players whose fathers have had a huge history and success with Dublin GAA, Alan, Bernard Brogan, James McCarthy, Dean Rock, Jack McCaffery, Cormac Costello these lads were always going to play football regardless of finance and many were involved in teams before the alleged boon. To be honest i think if you are looking to make a case for increased funding enhancing the quality of a player you are looking at the likes, of Fenton, Kilkenny or Con. I just want to make a point on the funding, people and suspect many in the debate haven't looked at even the development properly. Dublins development money has been cut year on year since 2012. Currently Dublin receive 72k less then they did in 2011 when they started winning All Ireland's. You know my point on cumulative funding so i wont go over it again. For me mate, Dublin have historically under achieved, that seems a strange thing to say given we have a decent haul of all Irelands. But it should be far more. We should and could have won, four or five on the bounce in the early 90s and been more competitive in the 00's. A lot of thing conspired against that a mixture of bad management holistically, publicity and false hubris. I mention this because you have to understand the make up of the GAA in the county. Traditionally the GAA was strong on the North side of the City and as such you would always see the Dublin team largely made up of Vincent and Na Fianna men etc and one or two others. Dublin have historically operated at about 50% of its overall potential. But we were always reasonably competitive at the the top table within that. For me the greatest contribution or catalyst to Dublins success in this era is the development and the popularity of the game on the South side of the county, . You now see a county operating at a far higher percentage of its potential, this significantly raises the bar but internally and externally in competition, the signs were there in the 00's if i am being honest but some key aspects were missing in management. What led to cultivating the resources good management namely Gilroy and Gavin, who changed the whole culture and ideology of team. At county board level, players are identified at school level and pathway put in place for them to achieve their potential this happened in the early 2000's and remains the case. To answer your question, i dont think the short term increase in funding has led to the current success, i think if we are going to see an impact of that for another 4-5 years, i think there may be a more traction to your beliefs then. To be honest mate, i dont think have a problem with the reduction of Dublins development money, i think the GAA will regret it though, it will create its own monster and lead to other dilemmas that may not be easily retractable. I dont think its the scandal people make out and i think its often a balm to cope with hurt or failure, Many counties are getting Euro for Euro or above in development money for their population, Dublin are getting 1.2 million for 1.5 million people. Dublin will ebb and flow, but i suspect will be a different animal in football in particular from this point on regardless of finance, which we wont go short on one way or the other. I think Kerry are a coming force though and there should be some great competitive years ahead that will live long in the memory. :) TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/02/2018 12:22:04 2073559 Link
Replying To kildare73: "I wouldn't disagree with any of what you say there. But leaving all slagging aside and asking a straight question and given that the GAA said back in 2005 that they wanted to boost football in the capital, is it your opinion that the GAA have had no hand in helping Dublin above every other county? I'm really not sniping here because this thread degenerated into that and we can surely have a serious debate without it." I did a massive post for Gerry mate, but pretty much sums up my thoughts of the advancement of the football team in Dublin. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/02/2018 12:24:15 2073560 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "I did a massive post for Gerry mate, but pretty much sums up my thoughts of the advancement of the football team in Dublin." Your have your thoughts on it Username and you don't degenerate into rubbish like another Dublin poster on here. Saying "It's just the way it is" every time you post doesn't come close to a reasoned argument. I don't agree with everything you say but I respect your view. It's hard for the rest of us to think that 12 years of what we see as heavy funding hasn't contributed to the panel Dublin has today. They are an incredibly gifted group of players, on course to be the best ever. Certainly the best I think I will see. But every county has volunteers and coaches trying desperately hard to make the best of what they have and they look at Dublin's perceived favouring and they ask what is the point. I said before on here I don't have a problem with Dublin's sponsorship deals. They went out and got them and fair play. But for one county to 16m in funding over the years and the next to have 1.2m and the rest after that looks unbalanced. Anyway look, I don't think we will ever find common ground on these things and we'll see what this new shift in funding brings. It doesn't escape me that Dublin's cut in funding amounts to more than most counties total funding for the year and Dublin will still be above the 1m euro level. I don't pretend to know the finer points on GAA economics , I just go to matches and go home so maybe in there is something I'm not seeing, if so I'll gladly stand corrected. Anyway mate, enjoy the trip to Omagh if you are going. kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 03/02/2018 13:15:05 2073572 Link
@ Username I am very much not against Dublin getting the amount of money that it gets. It just makes sense that with Dublin's population it gets a huge chunk of money. The GAA is the sports governing body it's main duty is to get as many people playing our games as possible. The money has played a huge role in their current success though. It can't not have. Competition breeds success. If you've more people playing the competition levels with be higher and players will be better. The players like Dean Rock who'd have played anyway were not predetermined at birth to be as good as they are. So yes they may still have played for Dublin but would they have reached the heights that they currently are. This team are full of very talented individuals, but they have also been moulded by the environment that is Dublin GAA, which has improved hugely as a result of the increased funding. As for how much the competitiveness of the inter county game has been hurt, I think to a certain extent only time will tell. This is a particularly good Dublin team and their manager is very impressive also. Dublin run well are going to be hard from now on to compete with. The thing is other counties are still competing with them. Mayo and Kerry have ran them close a number of times over these last 7 years. Dublin still can only have their 15 best players on the field at any one time. There's still plenty of variation in there where some one of the other 31 counties can have a better team or be better on the day than Dublin. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4240 - 03/02/2018 13:24:07 2073578 Link
Replying To Dubh_linn: "It's funny how it's too much to do with money now that Dublin are winning. Kerry are better financed than most counties and are operating in essentially a hurling province traditionally. Surely this is an unfair advantage." So your equating geography and the variances of historical sporting development to a conscious, artificial effort to ensure one county was made competitive. Good luck with that one... TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 03/02/2018 13:27:32 2073580 Link
Any interesting suggestion was made by someone to the CPA to help other counties benefit from the funding in Dublin. It involves having new clubs setup in the Dublin league and championship system affiliated to other counties. So Dublin Tyrone, Dublin Donegal, Dublin Cork etc. Guys moving to Dublin for work can play for the county representative in Dublin. They can have their children represent those clubs and those children will have the opportunity to designate themselves as playing for their clubs county. Dublin Donegal players are available to Donegal. I'm not sure of the practical aspects of the plan, but it was an interesting idea, and although this solution maybe wouldn't work in reality maybe there is some other solution out there that may work. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4240 - 03/02/2018 13:28:57 2073581 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "Ohhh Would you ever give it a rest Jaysus you've enjoyed an overwhelming advantage for over a century down there One foot in a semifinal year after year Sorry that your handy All Ireland's have dried up.. but get bloody use to it" I honestly cannot believe this kind of stuff is let through. I have had posts blocked in the past few days that wouldn't hold a candle to this rant. @Username excellent post, and I look forward to more football based debate as the year progresses. I don't think we will come to agreement here so I will bow out of as I don't think there is any more I can add that I haven't already. All the best, Gerry GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/02/2018 14:10:51 2073587 Link
https://www.facebook.com/SportsJOEdotie/posts/1752536271476608 Interesting reading The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 03/02/2018 14:43:15 2073593 Link
Replying To TheHermit: "So your equating geography and the variances of historical sporting development to a conscious, artificial effort to ensure one county was made competitive. Good luck with that one..." We know your take on things only too well by now.Poor Kerry we are doing our best within our limitations so I wouldn't be taking anything you contribute too seriously. Once you have no credibility you are irrelevant and once you made a claim you couldn't back up you became just a spoofer as far as I'm concerned. If you want to have your cake and eat it or eat your cake and have it too as it should be then off you go. Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 03/02/2018 14:58:54 2073599 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "@ Username I am very much not against Dublin getting the amount of money that it gets. It just makes sense that with Dublin's population it gets a huge chunk of money. The GAA is the sports governing body it's main duty is to get as many people playing our games as possible. The money has played a huge role in their current success though. It can't not have. Competition breeds success. If you've more people playing the competition levels with be higher and players will be better. The players like Dean Rock who'd have played anyway were not predetermined at birth to be as good as they are. So yes they may still have played for Dublin but would they have reached the heights that they currently are. This team are full of very talented individuals, but they have also been moulded by the environment that is Dublin GAA, which has improved hugely as a result of the increased funding. As for how much the competitiveness of the inter county game has been hurt, I think to a certain extent only time will tell. This is a particularly good Dublin team and their manager is very impressive also. Dublin run well are going to be hard from now on to compete with. The thing is other counties are still competing with them. Mayo and Kerry have ran them close a number of times over these last 7 years. Dublin still can only have their 15 best players on the field at any one time. There's still plenty of variation in there where some one of the other 31 counties can have a better team or be better on the day than Dublin." Good post mate and i agree with very much in principle. Dont get me wrong, im not crying poor mouth by any means i think Dublin are well funded, i suppose in the spectrum of alleged scandal and the reaction to the fairness funding is what i am mitigating with posts. If im honest i think the likes of Kerry, Mayo Tyrone and a good number of other counties all have access to the best of everything. Perhaps were the real injustice kicks in is counties like Roscommon, Down and a few others. There are clear haves and have nots. I hope some of the Dublin cuts go to re calibrate that. I take your point on the Rock example, its something impossible to nail down, i still dont believe Dublin are training or being coached in a space age facility, while other counties are running up mountains being yeled at by Pat down the road. Finance certainly helps no doubt and Dublin do very well and want for nothing, but as you say given the scale of what the DCB have to administer and structure its a fair allocation. It perhaps has enabled to develop structures and pathways at youth level, like i said though i think the benefits haven't been seen yet. For me Dublin were capable and should have won All Irelands in the 90's and 00's the biggest mitigating factor between those era and this, isnt in the quality of the player but in the management of the team. Ironically Gavin was part of the former era marked with media pressure, big egos and hubris self confidence. Its no coincidence he and his team are now the complete antithetical of this. They are like hit men, cold and calculating. I would also reiterate the both sides of the county now playing Galiec games. This for me is biggest mitigating factor to our success and that started in 00s. It often goes massively under the radar. Its the first time Dublin have utilised all its resources. Lads will have different opinions on the financial spectrum and how much it has influenced. Personally i think its good team management, good pathways and DCB doing sterling work over the last 20 years in utilizing the whole county within said structures, i am sure having access to finance has made this easier, but it hasnt artifically created Ivan Drago players, but enabled some innovative practices within Dublin GAA and harness resources. Pound for pound for population we do ok, but we both know we get about 14% of development money for over a third of the countires population. Some great work has been done, because given that ratio there is far more then finacne could acheive has gone on given our success. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/02/2018 15:04:26 2073600 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "I honestly cannot believe this kind of stuff is let through. I have had posts blocked in the past few days that wouldn't hold a candle to this rant. @Username excellent post, and I look forward to more football based debate as the year progresses. I don't think we will come to agreement here so I will bow out of as I don't think there is any more I can add that I haven't already. All the best, Gerry" Thanks mate, enjoy the game tonight, exciting times for Kerry! TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/02/2018 15:05:18 2073601 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "Ohhh Would you ever give it a rest Jaysus you've enjoyed an overwhelming advantage for over a century down there One foot in a semifinal year after year Sorry that your handy All Ireland's have dried up.. but get bloody use to it" Getting every game at home, home refs dwarfing the rest in funding and sponsorship , thats what I call handy titles 37thHeaven (Kerry) - Posts: 102 - 03/02/2018 15:12:03 2073604 Link
It's a lot more than money that has made Dublin great. How much money would everyone think their county needs to be competing for an All Ireland? GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 03/02/2018 15:29:53 2073613 Link
Replying To Dubh_linn: "We know your take on things only too well by now.Poor Kerry we are doing our best within our limitations so I wouldn't be taking anything you contribute too seriously. Once you have no credibility you are irrelevant and once you made a claim you couldn't back up you became just a spoofer as far as I'm concerned. If you want to have your cake and eat it or eat your cake and have it too as it should be then off you go." My friend to paraphrase a famous rebuke by Big Jack on Dunphy, your opinion of me means about as much as that fly crawling on the wall. Kerry have always tried to do their best working within the means of their own resources. We saw what Dublin were like doing the same before the gravy train rescued them. Just because you can't defend what's happening doesn't mean you have to be insulting, but that seems to be the only way a lot of Dublin posters on here can debate. Good luck now.. TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 03/02/2018 15:36:17 2073614 Link
Replying To TheHermit: "My friend to paraphrase a famous rebuke by Big Jack on Dunphy, your opinion of me means about as much as that fly crawling on the wall. Kerry have always tried to do their best working within the means of their own resources. We saw what Dublin were like doing the same before the gravy train rescued them. Just because you can't defend what's happening doesn't mean you have to be insulting, but that seems to be the only way a lot of Dublin posters on here can debate. Good luck now.." The dubs on HoganStand definitely go for the attack is the best form of defense strategy the hermit, take no notice of them. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 03/02/2018 16:32:03 2073625 Link