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Professor Niall Moyna says Dublin are too dominant

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Replying To kildare73:  "Why does that stop Dublin providing themselves with a stadium? Not sure what your point is? Croke Park was never ever envisaged to be anyone's home."
It doesn't, but aside from a DCB contribution, both the GAA and the taxpayer will end up footing a considerable chuck of the bill. I would think the cost involved (45 Million?) would be better spent on Games Development Funding, but you may disagree.

The current arrangement is far from perfect, but probably the best available.

Jaden (Dublin) - Posts: 139 - 01/02/2018 17:33:41    2073172

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Replying To kildare73:  "We'll you are getting the lions share anyway, you can easily afford to build or renovate Parnell Park. Anyone remember that place??
And you STILL haven't told me how much Dublin are benefiting every other county except your vague claim of "millions ". Like I said it seems the bulk of it is reinvested within so I'll save my gratitude."
Nothing vague about it

EIR has spent a fortune on the Spring Series rights over the last number of seasons

It's not vague at all. All off Dublins back..

Dublin GAA is the cash cow of the organisation

It's biggest brand by a distance and the one team that consistently broadcast live to huge viewing figures

You obviously know little about the broadcasting advertising market. Nah bother

Hopefully you'll get your wish and you'll be paying for a new stadium

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 01/02/2018 17:43:18    2073177

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Replying To ormondbannerman:  "I think something croke park could propose two things
1) Cut the inter county game time to 60 mins
2) Get rid of the qualifiers.
One point 1
;A reduced level of fitness should needed for 60 minute games thus not allowing top teams burn off teams in the last 10 minutes.
:Also its amateur game and the level of fitness that is needed now is crazy. If player welfare is really top of Croke parks agenda.

One point 2
: Less and less are getting to contest the All-ireland since they where introduced so its suiting the top teams not weaker teams, what is meant to do in the first place.
:Top teams like Dublin Kerry and Mayo are using it to there advantage knowing they have a second chance you dont really need to be firing on all cylinders at the start of the championship. Saving fitness to later stages.

But what are the powers that suggesting ? super 8's, where only the top is every going win out on league bases that's only going to suit a top teams.
Just say Meath or Kildare did beat Dublin this year and that's a big if. Do people really think that putting them in a group with Dublin and have try and beat the again is going to help?
bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 760 - 01/02/2018 14:21:37 I dont agree with either of those. Cutting the time of games isnt needed and if you were to do it fitness levels wouldnt necessarily be going down as level of intensity would be as high and teams would just train the same and just adapt their training. The player welfare on this isnt an issue.
Dublin havent really needed second chance of qualifiers since they began as they only havent won their provincial title in 2003, 2004 and 2010.
How does removing the qualifiers help other teams. My county, Tipperary, got to an all ireland semi final in 2016 exactly because of the qualifiers. Mayo havent won last 2 connacht titles but won 5 in a row before that. Them losing doesnt mean they save fitness."
Give me any example of how it helped the current Clare team ? I do remember them getting to an All-Ireland in 92' They possibly might not have made it to the semi. under the qualifiers or very doubtful under super 8's. Qualifiers has its merits but over all its suits the top teams.
My point about Mayo is last year the would be gone thus freeing up a spot for some else. its ,major flaw is that it gives top teams a second chance. And the cream normally comes to the top.
Why not try changing game time to 60 minutes and scrap the qualifiers for 3 years ? I reckon its better than the super 8's joke.

bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1263 - 01/02/2018 18:20:48    2073188

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Replying To jimbodub:  "I'm not knocking anything

But 40,000,000 is 40,000,000

Which could have been spent far better IMO

Especially given your and a number of other posters outrage.. no?

Your lack of acknowledgement of 50,000,000 given to GAA sports development within Munster is interesting.

Imagine what that sort of money could have done for games development across the country

It greatly eclipses the amount received by Dublin across 14 years...

And you boys seem convinced that a much smaller figure received by Dublin is that blame for everything..."
Your figures are pulled out of the sky Jimbo. The Tralee IT campus is for the college sports and leisure department and multiple sports including GAA, and the money came from the Department of Sports and Tourism, not the GAA. PUC received aid from a host of sources including GAA HQ, much like Croke Park did years ago. GAA did not put €40m in to the project. Do a bit of research at least. Then again, that might not suit your argument I suppose.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 01/02/2018 18:38:56    2073193

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I do find it interesting that no media outlet has led with headlines or even reported Dublin's cut in funding.

You have to question the objectivity and agenda of those who have reported on Dublin's finance and stirring controversy and yet haven't reported the trend in the opposite direction.

As I thought of most journalists to be honest, Dublin are box office and creating controversy in narrative is a self serving agenda.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 01/02/2018 20:52:10    2073231

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Replying To kildare73:  "Ahhh we have a tourist!! That's what happens when you have to pay for things on your own."
No. That's what happens with years of mismanagement, Parnell Park, small and all as it may be is still miles ahead of Kildares county ground.
Perhaps if you hadn't had to pay so much for 'legitimate expenses' to big name senior managers over the years it might have been better looked after.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 01/02/2018 21:30:46    2073240

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Your figures are pulled out of the sky Jimbo. The Tralee IT campus is for the college sports and leisure department and multiple sports including GAA, and the money came from the Department of Sports and Tourism, not the GAA. PUC received aid from a host of sources including GAA HQ, much like Croke Park did years ago. GAA did not put €40m in to the project. Do a bit of research at least. Then again, that might not suit your argument I suppose."
What's good for the goose chief :)

It's easy isn't it

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 01/02/2018 21:41:48    2073246

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I do find it interesting that no media outlet has led with headlines or even reported Dublin's cut in funding.

You have to question the objectivity and agenda of those who have reported on Dublin's finance and stirring controversy and yet haven't reported the trend in the opposite direction.

As I thought of most journalists to be honest, Dublin are box office and creating controversy in narrative is a self serving agenda."
That's it exactly , majority of the media won't mention anything about ye'r finances, everything kept hush hush hoping nobody will notice.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 01/02/2018 21:43:03    2073248

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Give me any example of how it helped the current Clare team ? I do remember them getting to an All-Ireland in 92' They possibly might not have made it to the semi. under the qualifiers or very doubtful under super 8's. Qualifiers has its merits but over all its suits the top teams.
My point about Mayo is last year the would be gone thus freeing up a spot for some else. its ,major flaw is that it gives top teams a second chance. And the cream normally comes to the top.
Why not try changing game time to 60 minutes and scrap the qualifiers for 3 years ? I reckon its better than the super 8's joke.
bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 761 - 01/02/2018 18:20:48 Im from Tipp and the qualifiers have helped them hugely.
And the old system saw the Munster title go outside of Kerry/Cork 13 times ever and Clare in 1992 is only time since 1935 that that happened.
Tipp made semis in 2016 through the back door.
changing games to 60 minutes wont help things. scrapping qualifiers removes nearly 50% of senior intercounty games. Can GAA afford to lose that much coverage? There is already complaints about coverage of the sport so how does your proposal help that?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 01/02/2018 21:45:59    2073251

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Some day in the not too far away future, there will be blue tears, and all will be quiet on the financial news. We have the best footballers with the best can do attitude in the game, for now!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 02/02/2018 00:55:48    2073284

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In fairness the GAA and Dublin have a great old partnership going on while the rest of have to fight for the scraps off yer table.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 02/02/2018 11:19:29    2073338

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "In fairness the GAA and Dublin have a great old partnership going on while the rest of have to fight for the scraps off yer table."
Have you considered joining the GAA? I *think* they allow non-Dubs to take up membership these days. Not sure though. /s

It's amazing how quickly "Our beloved GAA" becomes "Those faceless GAA bureaucrats are destroying our sport" when the GAA does something that people don't agree with.

Every single failing of the GAA reflects on it's members. When deriding decisions it makes as a whole, you are at least in part pointing the finger of blame at yourself. Before you say "But I am but one poor grassroots individual, how can I possibly have a say in what the GAA does, it's not in any way my fault" - remember the saying:

"No single snowflake thinks itself responsible for the avalanche".

So where should you direct your ire then? Let's follow a line of reasoning, and see where it leads.

The DCB in applying for, and receiving funding, is fulfilling it's mandate. It has been tasked with nurturing and developing our native games within the county, and is securing the maximum funding to do so that it can. If there is a bias in funding within the GAA at a national level, it's probably the only County Board that shouldn't be held accountable for that. It *is* biased in favour of Dublin - that is literally it's job description. Every Dublin GAA member and support would rightly be pissed if the DCB wasn't doing everything it could to secure the maximum resources it can.

So, if a conspiracy exists to give Dublin unfair advantages financially, who is conspiring?

I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

I understand I'm looking at this from a Dublin perspective - and I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to absolutely nobody for this. At the same time, you can't fix a problem, if you don't know where the source of the problem is.

Jaden (Dublin) - Posts: 139 - 02/02/2018 13:33:39    2073372

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Replying To Jaden:  "Have you considered joining the GAA? I *think* they allow non-Dubs to take up membership these days. Not sure though. /s

It's amazing how quickly "Our beloved GAA" becomes "Those faceless GAA bureaucrats are destroying our sport" when the GAA does something that people don't agree with.

Every single failing of the GAA reflects on it's members. When deriding decisions it makes as a whole, you are at least in part pointing the finger of blame at yourself. Before you say "But I am but one poor grassroots individual, how can I possibly have a say in what the GAA does, it's not in any way my fault" - remember the saying:

"No single snowflake thinks itself responsible for the avalanche".

So where should you direct your ire then? Let's follow a line of reasoning, and see where it leads.

The DCB in applying for, and receiving funding, is fulfilling it's mandate. It has been tasked with nurturing and developing our native games within the county, and is securing the maximum funding to do so that it can. If there is a bias in funding within the GAA at a national level, it's probably the only County Board that shouldn't be held accountable for that. It *is* biased in favour of Dublin - that is literally it's job description. Every Dublin GAA member and support would rightly be pissed if the DCB wasn't doing everything it could to secure the maximum resources it can.

So, if a conspiracy exists to give Dublin unfair advantages financially, who is conspiring?

I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

I understand I'm looking at this from a Dublin perspective - and I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to absolutely nobody for this. At the same time, you can't fix a problem, if you don't know where the source of the problem is."
Nobody is being critical of the DCB, I have not read a single negative comment about them, they have done a phenomenal job and deserve credit. There is no conspiracy either. The GAA set about improving the games in Dublin back in 2005 and it was the right thing to do at the time, although in hindsight and looking at the figures they went too far. It was a dark time for Dublin GAA and I fully understand why they did what they did though. Either way it was a success. I know it seems to be a sore point with some Dubs but anybody who thinks money has not been a factor in the success is really not worth worrying about. It's absolutely undeniable.

Again I would reiterate that the absolute priority now must be to improve the others. Dublin are so strong and the others are coming from such a low base at this stage that I really don't know where you'd even start, but there you go. None of this is Dublin's fault of course, and I get why Dublin fans don't see the problem.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/02/2018 01:26:36    2073511

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The issue of funding of Dublin Vis a Vis the rest could go on forever here and elsewhere. Even GAA journalists don't know the full facts or can't get access to the overall funding. Why the secrecy? Is the GAA not supposedly a democratic organisation. Many would question this. Croke Park seems to be to the average GAA volunteer, a business operation separate from the rest of the organisation. The chasm is growing daily. This idea was reinforced in my mind the other day, when Peter McKenna (Stadium Director) was on the RTE lunchtime news talking about Croke Park looking for permission for an extra concert this year. He might as well have been just another Concert promoter. Where does the money from Concerts in Croke Park go to?

It's time that the GAA i.e. Croke Park made a statement about the exact funding that every County gets, including sponsorship - a full and transparent account- otherwise this issue will not go away and the future development of our games will suffer. Some inter County teams have literally given up, particularly in Leinster. A special congress should be called to address funding. If there is reluctance on behalf of Croke Park to be open and transparent about any or all of its finances it's time for the County Boards and Provinces to demand accountability. After all who is more important to the GAA; the Club volunteers who week in week out throughout the 32 counties give freely of their time, whether be serving on committees, making sandwiches, marking pitches, putting flags out, putting on the heating, washing jerseys, selling Lotto tickets, manning the score board and the multitude of other mundane tasks that are done in every the country every day of the week by those who carry out these tasks for love their clubs and the GAA or the corporate entities in Croke Park who it seems have totally lost touch with the GAA grassroots, not that some of the them ever came from there.
It should be pointed out to those who inhabit their Ivory Towers in Croke Park, that they can't live without us but if push came to shove, if we want to save our games from the Corporatism that is infesting the GAA to its possible fatal detriment, that we, that is the rest of the GAA can certainly live without them

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2991 - 03/02/2018 01:43:52    2073512

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Nobody is being critical of the DCB, I have not read a single negative comment about them, they have done a phenomenal job and deserve credit. There is no conspiracy either. The GAA set about improving the games in Dublin back in 2005 and it was the right thing to do at the time, although in hindsight and looking at the figures they went too far. It was a dark time for Dublin GAA and I fully understand why they did what they did though. Either way it was a success. I know it seems to be a sore point with some Dubs but anybody who thinks money has not been a factor in the success is really not worth worrying about. It's absolutely undeniable.

Again I would reiterate that the absolute priority now must be to improve the others. Dublin are so strong and the others are coming from such a low base at this stage that I really don't know where you'd even start, but there you go. None of this is Dublin's fault of course, and I get why Dublin fans don't see the problem."
With all due respect mate stating your opinion as an undeniable fact doesn't make it so.

I think it's an unfortunate approach to dismiss contributors to the debate or a differing opinion to your own as not worthwhile.

While beliefs on this topic will be different and I suspect polarized due to loyalty, we can surely debate without referring to others opinions as of worth, it's the essence of a forum.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/02/2018 01:56:01    2073513

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Well said username..

GGdub (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 03/02/2018 09:58:45    2073528

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Replying To TheUsername:  "With all due respect mate stating your opinion as an undeniable fact doesn't make it so.

I think it's an unfortunate approach to dismiss contributors to the debate or a differing opinion to your own as not worthwhile.

While beliefs on this topic will be different and I suspect polarized due to loyalty, we can surely debate without referring to others opinions as of worth, it's the essence of a forum."
It's also an unfortunate approach to deflect away from the debate by bringing in all sorts of irrelevant points and dragging it in to a childish spat (not saying you have done this but that is what happens to most threads on here including this one)

Would be interested in your own personal opinion Username as you are one of the more rational posters on here. Do you think all of the additional investment Dublin enjoyed over the years through games development and ISC has had an impact on the pitch at senior and underage levels? Yes or no?

My own opinion for what it is worth is that the potential was always there given the population and logistics, and that the money was the catalyst needed to realise it.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/02/2018 10:04:37    2073529

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Replying To TheUsername:  "With all due respect mate stating your opinion as an undeniable fact doesn't make it so.

I think it's an unfortunate approach to dismiss contributors to the debate or a differing opinion to your own as not worthwhile.

While beliefs on this topic will be different and I suspect polarized due to loyalty, we can surely debate without referring to others opinions as of worth, it's the essence of a forum."
Do you think the dubs get too much money?

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 03/02/2018 10:52:08    2073541

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Nobody is being critical of the DCB, I have not read a single negative comment about them, they have done a phenomenal job and deserve credit. There is no conspiracy either. The GAA set about improving the games in Dublin back in 2005 and it was the right thing to do at the time, although in hindsight and looking at the figures they went too far. It was a dark time for Dublin GAA and I fully understand why they did what they did though. Either way it was a success. I know it seems to be a sore point with some Dubs but anybody who thinks money has not been a factor in the success is really not worth worrying about. It's absolutely undeniable.

Again I would reiterate that the absolute priority now must be to improve the others. Dublin are so strong and the others are coming from such a low base at this stage that I really don't know where you'd even start, but there you go. None of this is Dublin's fault of course, and I get why Dublin fans don't see the problem."
The day or close to the day that Croke Park had to go to court to get signed off for the Garth Brooks concert McKenna was in the media arrogantly telling anyone who'd listen that it was a done deal. Basically telling residents around Croke Park that there's nothing ye can do to stop these concerts going ahead. It was a shame they didn't happen, a lot of disappointed fans and a massive loss of money to Dublin businesses. But I chuckled knowing that the court had brought McKenna was brought down a peg or two. Seems to only be concerned with Croke Park corporate and concerts. Not at all interested in incentivising supporters or potential supporters to go to matches that are half full or less. Our national stadium, largely built with taxpayers money. Grassroots organisers make it their business to get as many to go to their games because every cent helps their club to survive. Different strokes for different folks.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7362 - 03/02/2018 10:52:36    2073542

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Replying To TheUsername:  "With all due respect mate stating your opinion as an undeniable fact doesn't make it so.

I think it's an unfortunate approach to dismiss contributors to the debate or a differing opinion to your own as not worthwhile.

While beliefs on this topic will be different and I suspect polarized due to loyalty, we can surely debate without referring to others opinions as of worth, it's the essence of a forum."
I wouldn't disagree with any of what you say there. But leaving all slagging aside and asking a straight question and given that the GAA said back in 2005 that they wanted to boost football in the capital, is it your opinion that the GAA have had no hand in helping Dublin above every other county? I'm really not sniping here because this thread degenerated into that and we can surely have a serious debate without it.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 03/02/2018 11:10:07    2073543

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