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The hurling format agreed for next year is likely to be in place for over a decade and beyond. The Super 8 format will change after 3 years. The most likely changes is to a Top 16. In a move not too dissimilar to hurling, 6 Provincial groups of 4 and 2 qualifier groups of 4 (Tier 2) could be a good option. In Munster and Connaught: The non-finalists of the previous year could contest a preliminary round. Winners advance to their respective provincial group stage. Losers drop into qualifier group tier 2. In Ulster the preliminary round loser of the previous year and the loser of a play-off between the bottom team of both Ulster groups should contest a preliminary round. Winner into provincial group stage. Loser into qualifier group tier 2. In Leinster the 3 preliminary round losers of the previous year, the bottom teams from both groups and the loser of a playoff between the two 3rd placed teams should enter the preliminary round. The 3 winners should advance to their provincial group stage. The 3 losers into qualifier group tier 2. Congress probably will want to reward provincial winners with a quarter-final. In that case qualifying rounds will have to remain: Preliminary Round: 6 3rd placed teams. Qualifier Round 1: 4 losing semi-finalists of Ulster and Leinster. 3 Preliminary Round winners. Tier 2 winner from the two qualifier groups. Qualifier Round 2: 4 Provincial runners-up and 4 Qualifier Round 1 winners. All-Ireland quarter-finals etc. after that. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7879 - 07/12/2017 22:07:47 2064642 Link 0 |
I was musing over the following for football: Two-thirds of all counties should contest their provincial championships. One-third of all counties should make the All-Ireland series. This can be achieved as follows: Munster - 1 group of 4 (4 of 6 counties), Connaught - 1 group of 4 (4 of 6 counties), Ulster - 2 groups of 3 or 1 group of 6 (6 of 9 counties) and Leinster - 2 groups of 4 (8 of 11 counties (-Kilkenny)). 2 teams from Munster, 2 teams from Connaught, 3 teams from Ulster and 4 teams from Leinster should advance to the All-Ireland series. A 12th team in the All-Ireland series should be awarded to a Tier II winner consisting of all counties outside of the provincial championships. Provincial winners would qualify for the quarter-finals. 4 provincial runners-up would be drawn against the 4 non-provincial finalists in a play-off. The Tier II winner would have to be promoted to their provincial championship in the following year. The GAA in their greatness would have to sort out the finer details on how other Tier II teams would earn promotion to their provincial championship. They could have the Tier II level consist of 2 groups; Group I: 2 Connaught and 3 Ulster. Group II: 2 Munster and 3 Leinster. Top teams from both groups into the Tier II final and automatic promotion to their provincial championship in placed of the lowest team. The second placed teams in both groups could playoff against the next lowest teams in their provincial championship. New York and Kilkenny can be invited to join the tier II groups. The Ulster championship could be granted an exemption to allow 2 even groups of 4 as only 3 of the 9 would still be allowed to make the All-Ireland series and it would be lowering their chance of a Tier II winner. In such a scenario the Tier II groups could be; Group I: 2 Munster and 2 Connaught. Group II: 3 Leinster and 1 Ulster. Again, New York and Kilkenny would possibly be welcome to join the Tier II groups. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7879 - 09/12/2017 17:27:56 2064744 Link 0 |
@legendzxix Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 10/12/2017 17:33:36 2064786 Link 0 |
You can't claim me for this ongoing discussion - you are just as addicted :) omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 10/12/2017 19:01:58 2064792 Link 0 |
The only thing I don't like here - why drive on for promo from 10th Div 2 with no playoff spot and needing to make the top 6 Div 1 next year ? I'd prefer - top 10 Div 2, with top 2 in Div 2 final both promo and to AI Last 14, with next 8 play 2 rds for 2 promo and KO 14 spots. Top 10 Div 1 to KO 14, with top 2 in Div 1 final, both to KO QFs, next 8 join 4 Div 2 promo teams in 1 rd to get 6 more to AI QFs. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 11/12/2017 01:14:07 2064807 Link 0 |
I think the league needs to be competitive so you don't want to offer too many play off spots. Division 1 in itself is prize worth going for. The division 2 champion only gets to a preliminary quarterfinal. So in division 1 gives teams a shot at an automatic semifinal or quarterfinal spot. I think for developing most teams would want to be in division 1. 13 games against the top teams is more beneficial than a slightly easier route to the playoffs. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 11/12/2017 10:50:29 2064819 Link 0 |
Lads, the league is not going to be combined with the championship. It is a complete waste of time to be going on about it. The football championship will consist of a provincial group stage or an All-Ireland series group stage. The league is not going to change that much. The football and hurling leagues are serving their purpose pre-championship. Hurling will have a provincial group stage next year. Football will have an All-Ireland series group stage. It will be interesting to see how both play out for real. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7879 - 11/12/2017 21:55:25 2064904 Link 0 |
In football, if the choice is between provincial group stage or All-Ireland group stage, I think the Super 8 expanding to a Top 16 is the best approach. The top third from each province should make the final 16. I would suggest Ulster take in London and New York so that the 4 quarter-final winners of Ulster, 4/11, would qualify for the final 16. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7879 - 12/12/2017 21:08:47 2065030 Link 0 |
As you say the debate is endless - but I have top 2 Div 1 to As, next 8 and top 2 Div 2 to KOI 14, along with next 2 of 8 Div 2 to KOI 14. I think it's fair ! omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 13/12/2017 01:31:33 2065053 Link 0 |
I like US NFL style 8 Div of 4. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 13/12/2017 01:46:37 2065055 Link 0 |
I like US NFL style 8 Div of 4. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 13/12/2017 01:48:06 2065056 Link 0 |
I could go with a variation of my Antrim friend - omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 13/12/2017 02:06:40 2065057 Link 0 |
There has been no indication of provincial championships being separated from the All-Ireland series. There is also no indication of the league being combined with the championship. Solutions within the confines of those limitations are more realistic. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7879 - 13/12/2017 18:43:01 2065126 Link 0 |
BY this standard, the Super 8 football and round robin hurling would never happen.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 21/12/2017 02:47:21 2065740 Link 0 |
We should not shoot down the Super 8 before it gets a chance - but one fact is this - as draws are more frequent in soccer, dead rubber risk is less than in the GAA. Accordingly, I think double chance should be preferable to round robin, although the latter works best when limited tp 3 teams. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 24/12/2017 18:08:20 2065984 Link 0 |
Giving 8 Prov Finalists a bye to following year Prov SFs would also bring symmetry - all needing three wins thru the Front Door - SF, Final and Playoff to AI QFs - a mouthering Playoff in place of a Prov QF. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 26/12/2017 19:26:05 2066022 Link 0 |
I think limiting all Prov Championships - 4 in football and 2 in hurling - to 4 teams each (highest in NFL and NHL) - with KO SFs and Final only keeps the best of these games - everyone has a chance to qualify via the league - and is a fair compromise between those arguing for Prov abolition and those for no change. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 27/02/2018 13:58:25 2080929 Link 0 |
No I don't like this idea at all. One of the main reasons to keep the Provincial championships is because they are a showpiece game for lesser counties. Helps to bring in the sponsors for those teams. To not have them getting their high profile games but still provide big matches for teams making semis and finals is not a good idea. Why 4 each by the way. Means you only get 36% participation from Leinster but 2/3 from Munster and Connacht. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 27/02/2018 16:50:08 2080992 Link 0 |
As we all agree this debate is endless and as P Duffy has said we seek a 'magic bullet'. Look, after we get to a 'Prov SF 16' and 'non Prov SF 16' - by any means you want, incl no change at all- each 16 could engage 3 add'l rounds to get to the AI QFs (fair for all). Front Door = Prov SF, Final and Champs' Playoff. Back Door = Qual Rd 1 (8 x 3-team groups), KO Rds 2 (rd of 20) and 3 (rd of 12). That is, each team in AI QFs. needs to have won through 3 of those 6 'mix-n-match' rds (my 2+6). Alternatively, with a 2-tier AIC (no dead rubbers) SamMag Cup (18)= 6 groups of 3 (12 to KO, 4 byes). POSe Cup (14) = 4x3 groups, 1x2 leg pair (8 to KO). omahant (USA) - Posts: 2621 - 04/03/2018 02:12:01 2081782 Link 0 |
It needs to happen. Most counties are just cannon fodder for the top 5 teams and that will never change jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 04/03/2018 20:42:29 2081849 Link 1 |