|
Yes I'd agree that whatever about the development funding argument, for an amateur sport there should be some cap on what sort of money each senior county team can avail of or spend. That needs to be brought to as close to a level playing field as possible.
At the elite level of sport, anything to gives you even a 1 or 2% advantage over an opponent is huge.
Now take Dublin in comparison to the rest, even my own county - they have 15 or more official sponsors or product tie-ins, they have a backroom team as large as the panel itself, they play in their (de-facto) home ground for every Championship game of note thus they use the same dressing room every game, they can have the same routine etc, etc. The combination of all of this is allowing Dublin to be as close to professional as any side in the history of Gaelic games.
When you consider the above, Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone or whoever are still going into a tennis match against them playing with wooden rackets!!!
The GAA has allowed this to happen and its up to the rest of us, through our clubs and county boards to tell them to cop on.
In fairness to Dublin, they were just given this ball and they are running with it.
I wouldn't blame them anymore than I'd blame Kerry for doing the same.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 19/07/2017 11:39:34
2019174
Link
0
|
|
There was a decent thread on this a while back after that McKenna article that descended into farce.
I would say Dublin have done wonders with the funding they get. Their model should be copied by other counties and the GAA should have audit systems to show the funding your given is going into development of the game, coaching, bringing kids through the ranks etc. They could probably give more to other counties but it's not really anything to do with what Dublin get in my opinion, it's a question of strategy and is there any interest in promoting the game country wide and making it competitive beyond 4 teams each year?
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 19/07/2017 12:08:11
2019197
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Ulsterman: "Dublin GAA are more or less run as a professional outfit now and the reality is the rest don't really stand a chance. Dublin fans, Croke Park and media may all be wallowing at this but Gaelic football in the rest of the country is suffering as a consequence.
However those currently running the Association are doing so on a commercial basis and Dublin means dollar signs. The bigger picture doesn't really concern them. As long as the cash cow delivers then the rest can go and whistle Dixie.
I believe that people outside Dublin will eventually grow bored of the annual blue coronation and vote with their feet." In typical fashion you are only talking about one code, Gaelic football, because in your world that is all the GAA is about. You are also only talking about the Inter-county game (Football of course) the rest doesn't matter, the rest doesn't count and therefore doesn't cost money to promote, develop or support. What we now see is with this thread all the monies are lumped together - previously it was Irish Sports council grants and no understanding on the part of anyone how this money is distributed, or its about "development" with zero understanding of what that is even about (neither apply to the Inter-county game at all). And it goes on and on, giving Cavan 10 million will never deliver an All ireland for instance but that is NOT what this money is about. There are 9 Adult Hurling Leagues and 12 Football alone with between 9/12 teams in each. The Juvenile leagues are huge, not to mention the underage, schools etc etc There are big participation numbers but GAA is competing for this at every level with other sports and social distraction. That level of participation is largely funded by its own means. Maybe if you took the blinkers off and looked behind the reality of funding you wouldn't be so wide off the mark. The fact is 30% of the population lives in Dublin if their is a big GAA Funding cake at least 30% of it has to go to the Dubs - or else you cap it and treat Dublin GAA players unfairly, that is why Sports council and Govt schemes have to be fairly distributed. You can do a lot in the GAA but you cannot get around the fact that 30% of Irish people live there.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 19/07/2017 12:12:24
2019202
Link
1
|
|
Replying To TheHermit: "Yes I'd agree that whatever about the development funding argument, for an amateur sport there should be some cap on what sort of money each senior county team can avail of or spend. That needs to be brought to as close to a level playing field as possible.
At the elite level of sport, anything to gives you even a 1 or 2% advantage over an opponent is huge.
Now take Dublin in comparison to the rest, even my own county - they have 15 or more official sponsors or product tie-ins, they have a backroom team as large as the panel itself, they play in their (de-facto) home ground for every Championship game of note thus they use the same dressing room every game, they can have the same routine etc, etc. The combination of all of this is allowing Dublin to be as close to professional as any side in the history of Gaelic games.
When you consider the above, Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone or whoever are still going into a tennis match against them playing with wooden rackets!!!
The GAA has allowed this to happen and its up to the rest of us, through our clubs and county boards to tell them to cop on.
In fairness to Dublin, they were just given this ball and they are running with it.
I wouldn't blame them anymore than I'd blame Kerry for doing the same." Yet you beat Dublin in a national final
It's not money that kicks a ball over a bar and we've always has sponsorship advantages even when getting hammered
The funding going into Dublin doesn't go near the Inter county teams
We have a huge commitment to both codes at all levels and that's where the sponsorship money is spent
The figures were published for 2016 and Dublin were not the greatest spenders on that list
Dublin came 2nd and that's with our commitment to both codes with our hurling teams performing very well
If there are other counties spending huge figures on their setups then we will do the same
Any sponsorship generated by Dublin is our own business and it's being pumped into very team at every level in both codes
Not just our senior football team. Unlike some counties....
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 19/07/2017 12:17:21
2019210
Link
0
|
|
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/mayo-the-big-spenders-this-graph-breaks-down-each-countys-costs-in-2016-35458592.html
There's the actual list for 2016
Not just some sort of crack pot opinion on how much Dublin is spending
Don't forget Dublin is 100% a high performing dual county and we're still not at the top
There are several counties spending huge money and they aren't even dual counties at the highest of levels
It costs money to play at all levels in both codes
The game development grants coming to Dublin are a fair reflection of the size of population
It's encouraging to hear that the GAA will be pumping more into other counties who's populations are growing
The talk of spending caps is very fuzzy indeed - people throw it out there but what exactly does it mean
A spending cap on each individual team? or a spending cap on the collective amount spent on all teams within each county?
If you average it all up look at the above 2016 spend...
For all the talk about Dublin.. we aren't even on top FFS and there are a number of counties that wouldn't have close to the amount of Inter county teams that IN BOTH CODES that Dublin are fielding
It makes sense for Dublin, Cork and Galway to be spending big with the amount of teams they have on the go and performing at a high level.
But for Mayo to be top and Kerry not far behind
This shows that they are spending above nearly all counties on one panel of players - their senior football team
Now Kerry have improved in hurling but are still 2nd tier and they simply do not have the same sort of outgoings as a county like Dublin has on inter county hurling.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 19/07/2017 12:31:59
2019219
Link
3
|
|
Do Dublin players have to travel long huge distances to training, thus incurring huge expenditure costs - NO
Do the DCB have to make long, expensive treks to Croke Park 3, 4, 5 times a year like Mayo,Kerry, Donegal etc - NO
link
Ye are always saying 'Oh but we have more sports' Yes thats true but then you can't justify the funding on a population scale but on an actual GAA playing scale and as that graph indicates the shameful distortion of the funding by the GAA
Galantis (USA) - Posts: 55 - 19/07/2017 13:56:14
2019281
Link
2
|
|
Jimbodub -ur hurlers performing at top level - you obviously didn't travel to Thurles (like most dubs)
curnew (Wicklow) - Posts: 449 - 19/07/2017 14:15:40
2019299
Link
0
|
|
One thing you never see in these threads is other money given out to other counties for other projects or accumulation of those funds.
The Cork county board were handed a significant sum to the county board to revamp their new ground.
Kerry were handed 1 million from the GAA and another 1 million from the Munster Council for their center of excellence, on top of what is a very unfair advantage in development funding ahead of other counties with comparative population like Mayo or Donegal or bigger in say Down.
Mayo were bailed out by the GAA for millions when they couldn't pay a bank loan.
Antrim also look set to get a shot in the arm with the development of Casement Park.
I have yet to see cumulative figures of all funding provided by the Gaa on a county by county basis, while people seem very familiar with Dublin finance.
Its a good debate to have but the figures posted on here are often very narrow or hyperbole.
Why handicap a successful well run largely self run operation. When other counties seem to rely on handouts. Makes no sense.
Alot of the governance throughout the country is based on that charity mentality and it stifles innovation at administration and county level.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 19/07/2017 14:33:36
2019313
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Galantis: "Do Dublin players have to travel long huge distances to training, thus incurring huge expenditure costs - NO Do the DCB have to make long, expensive treks to Croke Park 3, 4, 5 times a year like Mayo,Kerry, Donegal etc - NO linkYe are always saying 'Oh but we have more sports' Yes thats true but then you can't justify the funding on a population scale but on an actual GAA playing scale and as that graph indicates the shameful distortion of the funding by the GAA"
You are talking about ONE panel of players (while ignoring many more Dublin panels) which have already played away from home in NFL Div 1 on numerous occasions this year and away from home once in the championship this year.
How many games have Kerry played away from home so far in the championship?
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 19/07/2017 14:38:45
2019320
Link
2
|
|
Replying To curnew: "Jimbodub -ur hurlers performing at top level - you obviously didn't travel to Thurles (like most dubs)" They were well beaten by the AI champs but were playing in Div 1 this year and we've had plenty of success at underage in Leinster in the last two seasons - which is very promising moving forward.
The current hurling panel is malfunctioning with senior players leaving the setup and also the entire back room team at the start of the year
All is not rosey unfortunately and it's not a true indication of our credentials
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 19/07/2017 14:41:43
2019323
Link
0
|
|
Replying To jimbodub: "http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/mayo-the-big-spenders-this-graph-breaks-down-each-countys-costs-in-2016-35458592.html
There's the actual list for 2016
Not just some sort of crack pot opinion on how much Dublin is spending
Don't forget Dublin is 100% a high performing dual county and we're still not at the top
There are several counties spending huge money and they aren't even dual counties at the highest of levels
It costs money to play at all levels in both codes
The game development grants coming to Dublin are a fair reflection of the size of population
It's encouraging to hear that the GAA will be pumping more into other counties who's populations are growing
The talk of spending caps is very fuzzy indeed - people throw it out there but what exactly does it mean
A spending cap on each individual team? or a spending cap on the collective amount spent on all teams within each county?
If you average it all up look at the above 2016 spend...
For all the talk about Dublin.. we aren't even on top FFS and there are a number of counties that wouldn't have close to the amount of Inter county teams that IN BOTH CODES that Dublin are fielding
It makes sense for Dublin, Cork and Galway to be spending big with the amount of teams they have on the go and performing at a high level.
But for Mayo to be top and Kerry not far behind
This shows that they are spending above nearly all counties on one panel of players - their senior football team
Now Kerry have improved in hurling but are still 2nd tier and they simply do not have the same sort of outgoings as a county like Dublin has on inter county hurling." Jim
Calm down mate. No need for the FFS.
Let's make this a calm debate with no one going off the head because that's where it starts to go wrong.
You make good points.
I would cap the percentage of funding Dublin gets from the gaa. I know it's difficult, capping the Dublin ladies would be unfair I suppose but surely the brains of the GAA could work something out.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 19/07/2017 15:35:18
2019343
Link
1
|
|
Replying To The_Fridge: "Jim
Calm down mate. No need for the FFS.
Let's make this a calm debate with no one going off the head because that's where it starts to go wrong.
You make good points.
I would cap the percentage of funding Dublin gets from the gaa. I know it's difficult, capping the Dublin ladies would be unfair I suppose but surely the brains of the GAA could work something out." Alright ya bleedin choir boy ;)
Take the F as flip...
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 19/07/2017 15:51:15
2019351
Link
0
|
|
Replying To The_Fridge: "Jim
Calm down mate. No need for the FFS.
Let's make this a calm debate with no one going off the head because that's where it starts to go wrong.
You make good points.
I would cap the percentage of funding Dublin gets from the gaa. I know it's difficult, capping the Dublin ladies would be unfair I suppose but surely the brains of the GAA could work something out." Cap it at what?
The current level?
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 19/07/2017 15:51:55
2019352
Link
0
|
|
This year Cavan hurling got 100,000 Euro to field a hurling team with only 3 Cavan players - joke
This year and every yr Kilkenny gets 250,000 to play in the British JFC
cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 19/07/2017 16:15:37
2019376
Link
1
|
|
Replying To jimbodub: "http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/mayo-the-big-spenders-this-graph-breaks-down-each-countys-costs-in-2016-35458592.html
There's the actual list for 2016
Not just some sort of crack pot opinion on how much Dublin is spending
Don't forget Dublin is 100% a high performing dual county and we're still not at the top
There are several counties spending huge money and they aren't even dual counties at the highest of levels
It costs money to play at all levels in both codes
The game development grants coming to Dublin are a fair reflection of the size of population
It's encouraging to hear that the GAA will be pumping more into other counties who's populations are growing
The talk of spending caps is very fuzzy indeed - people throw it out there but what exactly does it mean
A spending cap on each individual team? or a spending cap on the collective amount spent on all teams within each county?
If you average it all up look at the above 2016 spend...
For all the talk about Dublin.. we aren't even on top FFS and there are a number of counties that wouldn't have close to the amount of Inter county teams that IN BOTH CODES that Dublin are fielding
It makes sense for Dublin, Cork and Galway to be spending big with the amount of teams they have on the go and performing at a high level.
But for Mayo to be top and Kerry not far behind
This shows that they are spending above nearly all counties on one panel of players - their senior football team
Now Kerry have improved in hurling but are still 2nd tier and they simply do not have the same sort of outgoings as a county like Dublin has on inter county hurling." Let's not confuse County team funding with development grants
Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 19/07/2017 16:18:39
2019378
Link
1
|
|
Just a note on Funding when Dublin won the National league and got to two all Ireland finals at minor there was uproar , we were buying titles and yes it was a disgrace, and opponents wanted funding stopped or reduced , move forward and we are not successful and are getting beat out the gate at senior level and low and behold people want funding stooped or reduced because it was a waste of time and resource, sure we got relegated ?????
Anyone think the ability to speak out of both sides of your mouth at the same time isn't just the skill of politician's ?
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 19/07/2017 16:25:24
2019384
Link
1
|
|
Replying To cuchulainn35: "This year Cavan hurling got 100,000 Euro to field a hurling team with only 3 Cavan players - joke
This year and every yr Kilkenny gets 250,000 to play in the British JFC" Jesus didnt think they would be getting so much!!
Some shame with the Cavan hurling!!
mickbob (Waterford) - Posts: 5 - 19/07/2017 16:36:17
2019393
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Sindar: "Let's not confuse County team funding with development grants" Absolutely
A common problem
Many believe that the development grants have been spent on our IC teams
It hasn't. It never has. It never will.
Every cent of it goes to games development under a very structured program developed by Dublin GAA and is accounted for at the end of the year with the GAA.
Sponsorship goes to fund our multitude of panels at all levels in both codes
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 19/07/2017 16:51:06
2019407
Link
0
|
|
This is an old argument, I'm sure if you look back through the threads you'll have the same thing.
Tyrone are majority backed by their own people, businesses and Club Tyrone. Okay they probably get Grants etc from both sides of the border and maybe that is why Ulster teams may get less than the average South. But Dublin will continue to rule the roost as long as they receive this money.
In my personal opinion if the GAA wanted to be successful all over the Country and both codes it should be the teams that are "under-performing" receiving more of the sum. I know my local club has recently started a Hurling club which in run obviously by dedicated volunteers, should the development of where counties are failing not take priority instead of creating an even bigger gap between "successful" and "unsuccessful" (Definition of success may vary) Counties.
Find_the_space (Tyrone) - Posts: 313 - 19/07/2017 16:53:24
2019412
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Find_the_space: "This is an old argument, I'm sure if you look back through the threads you'll have the same thing.
Tyrone are majority backed by their own people, businesses and Club Tyrone. Okay they probably get Grants etc from both sides of the border and maybe that is why Ulster teams may get less than the average South. But Dublin will continue to rule the roost as long as they receive this money.
In my personal opinion if the GAA wanted to be successful all over the Country and both codes it should be the teams that are "under-performing" receiving more of the sum. I know my local club has recently started a Hurling club which in run obviously by dedicated volunteers, should the development of where counties are failing not take priority instead of creating an even bigger gap between "successful" and "unsuccessful" (Definition of success may vary) Counties." Under - performing is an interesting comment.
If funding is the reason a team is under performing then funds are the answer
Was funding the reason Laois under performed this year ? Or was it lads on the lash ?
Was the reason Fermanagh under performed down to funds , McGrath , emigration ???
Kilkenny under perform year on year in football how much money should be thrown at them.
In the North there is underperforming counties in hurling is it down to funds or a lack of Will to Want to succeed .
To sum up there are many an under performing Counties in some its down to funds , others warring county boards in fighting left right and centre , before parting with a cent its reasonable to ask what its been spent on and is there a plan.
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 19/07/2017 17:42:52
2019458
Link
2
|
