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Why is it ok for the Galway Senior and UN-21 team's to be in the Leinster Championship but that our Minor team's are still not welcome??
Yes admittedly the structure at minor level offers more meaningful game's for Galway but we are still not fully integrated into the Leinster as clearly there's cherry picking going on still within the Leinster Council as to which Galway team's are welcome and who are not.
Supermacs88 (Galway) - Posts: 248 - 06/06/2017 19:47:19
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While the qualifier group winner is promoted, the top two in the qualifier group should be allowed proceed to a playoff round against the two 3rd placed teams.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 06/06/2017 20:09:02
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Interesting proposals that are a definite step forward but there are some problems/queries:
1. There is an imbalance between the provinces meaning that one or maybe two strong Munster teams are going to be eliminated with weaker Leinster teams going through. It means that the best six teams will not be in the knock out stages. This imbalance is recognised by the fact that direct relegation from the qualifier group only happens for Leinster teams.
2. There's going to be a very limited number of games between teams from different provinces. This was one of the benefits of the qualifiers that plenty of these games, giving novel pairings, could occur.
3. Meath are hard done by by being automatically relegated with the losing Ring finalist being promoted. Surely a play off between those two would be fairer.
3. Why are there no semi-finals in the Ring and Rackard cups? With only one team qualifying from each group, it means potentially far more dead rubbers. It would be much better to have two qualifying from each group.
4. Why have Sligo been placed in the Rackard cup? They only came third in the Meagher cup this year and yet they're promoted whereas whichever team of Leitrim and Warwickshire loses the Meagher final won't be promoted.
5. Having only four teams in the Meagher completely devalues it. Would it not have been better to have had six teams in the Rackard and six in the Meagher with each playing five games, the top team getting to the final and second and third playing a semi-final. It's almost like they want to reduce the number of games played by the lower tier teams and finish their season as quickly as possible.
6. It's very odd that the minor and U21 championships are treated differently. Why not have Galway in Leinster for the minor?
CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 104 - 06/06/2017 20:10:51
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "Have to agree with all that, especially now that I've seen the hurling proposals laid out: http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=271197A piecemeal attempt, half-measures all over the shop. Taking the exact same structure proposal that was rejected years ago, and trotting it out as an afterthought. No real thought put into it, just pull an old rejected proposal from the filing cabinet, and trot it out as a token attempt at equity between football and hurling. But I'd imagine the main thrust is to have a hurling championship that can still be mostly played off before the football super 8's kick in. And similar half measures at underage (Galway in Leinster at U21, but not minor, why?). I don't want to seem too bitter or stuck in the mud, I guess some progress is better than no progress. But the way these 'reforms' have been trotted out as almost a token gesture, just makes it more obvious that we need separate EFFECTIVE hurling and football bodies within the GAA. For the sake of hurling AND football."
Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 06/06/2017 20:13:16
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Replying To Whammo86: "I agree, I feel it's very unfair on Meath.
The Lory Meagher having just 4 teams is a bit of a joke too.
The whole thing was rather rushed through compared to how long it took them to pass anything in the football.
They also couldn't give 2 tosses for Ulster hurling and its development. They don't even bother to state how they incorporate Ulster teams into the minor championship. Ah sure throw them in Leinster somehow, that'll do them sure." I know, talk about kicking the can down the road. "any Ulster teams of sufficient strength" will be accommodated in the Leinster U21 championship. How is "sufficient strength" determined? When will it be determined? And what happens to the Ulster U21 championship in that case? They abandoned even the pretense of thinking things through in the U21 section.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 06/06/2017 20:20:15
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Replying To CeachtPeile: "Interesting proposals that are a definite step forward but there are some problems/queries:
1. There is an imbalance between the provinces meaning that one or maybe two strong Munster teams are going to be eliminated with weaker Leinster teams going through. It means that the best six teams will not be in the knock out stages. This imbalance is recognised by the fact that direct relegation from the qualifier group only happens for Leinster teams.
2. There's going to be a very limited number of games between teams from different provinces. This was one of the benefits of the qualifiers that plenty of these games, giving novel pairings, could occur.
3. Meath are hard done by by being automatically relegated with the losing Ring finalist being promoted. Surely a play off between those two would be fairer.
3. Why are there no semi-finals in the Ring and Rackard cups? With only one team qualifying from each group, it means potentially far more dead rubbers. It would be much better to have two qualifying from each group.
4. Why have Sligo been placed in the Rackard cup? They only came third in the Meagher cup this year and yet they're promoted whereas whichever team of Leitrim and Warwickshire loses the Meagher final won't be promoted.
5. Having only four teams in the Meagher completely devalues it. Would it not have been better to have had six teams in the Rackard and six in the Meagher with each playing five games, the top team getting to the final and second and third playing a semi-final. It's almost like they want to reduce the number of games played by the lower tier teams and finish their season as quickly as possible.
6. It's very odd that the minor and U21 championships are treated differently. Why not have Galway in Leinster for the minor?" Also:
7. Kerry are uniquely disadvantaged by this proposal. They now can only play in Munster so, if they win the qualifier group, they have to win a play-off against the bottom team in Munster. There's a minimal chance of that happening so they're effectively permanently stuck in the qualifier group. All other teams can qualify directly to play in Leinster if they win the qualifier group.
CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 104 - 06/06/2017 20:42:33
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "I know, talk about kicking the can down the road. "any Ulster teams of sufficient strength" will be accommodated in the Leinster U21 championship. How is "sufficient strength" determined? When will it be determined? And what happens to the Ulster U21 championship in that case? They abandoned even the pretense of thinking things through in the U21 section." I know it's a popular competition but I kind of think the under 21 championship is a bit of an interference.
Could a merged u19 grade be better where it doesn't have to be played on a Wednesday night.
You could have a National group stage with 12 teams. 6 qualify for second round.
Run Leinster and Munster championship as straight knockout. If they're in the 6 qualifiers they get a bye to the semifinals otherwise they join in the quarterfinals.
A similar system could be used at senior where 6 teams plus Provincial champions play in AI knockout rounds.
It's pretty simple plus any format under the sun can be used to determine the 6 qualifiers. Provincial championships don't have to be messed with.
Galway and Ulster teams don't enter other Provinces. They don't have to, all they lose out on is a shot at a bye at the quarterfinals stage, that's balanced out by them playing fewer games.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4235 - 06/06/2017 20:51:33
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Replying To CeachtPeile: "Also:
7. Kerry are uniquely disadvantaged by this proposal. They now can only play in Munster so, if they win the qualifier group, they have to win a play-off against the bottom team in Munster. There's a minimal chance of that happening so they're effectively permanently stuck in the qualifier group. All other teams can qualify directly to play in Leinster if they win the qualifier group." That's a great point. You'd think these sorts of things might come up when these proposals are getting put together!
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4235 - 06/06/2017 20:52:47
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Laois and Westmeath will have to lead the group lobbying for the top 2 qualifier counties to advance to a playoff against the 3rd placed teams.
It's very drastic to only give one qualifier group county a reward. Fair enough only promote the top county but allow the 2nd placed qualifier county a quarter-final play-off spot as well.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 06/06/2017 20:56:30
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Laois and Westmeath will have to lead the group lobbying for the top 2 qualifier counties to advance to a playoff against the 3rd placed teams.
It's very drastic to only give one qualifier group county a reward. Fair enough only promote the top county but allow the 2nd placed qualifier county a quarter-final play-off spot as well.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts:5275 - 06/06/2017 20:56:30 19
Agree completely on all this and I also would add that before next years qualifier group of 5 is decided the losers of the Christy Ring final on Saturday should have to play Meath in a play off instead of being straight into qualifier 5.
Say if Antrim lose on Saturday then maybe in 2 weeks have a play off with them & Meath for the 5th spot. Seems fair, as Meath were in Leinster round robin this year, won a game too and only went down on scoring difference.
The Real 1944 (Carlow) - Posts: 1114 - 06/06/2017 21:09:35
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Replying To CeachtPeile: "Also:
7. Kerry are uniquely disadvantaged by this proposal. They now can only play in Munster so, if they win the qualifier group, they have to win a play-off against the bottom team in Munster. There's a minimal chance of that happening so they're effectively permanently stuck in the qualifier group. All other teams can qualify directly to play in Leinster if they win the qualifier group." The big Munster teams have done all they can from preventing us try and compete with them over the years , I'm not surprised by this 1 county specific detail thrown in
KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 06/06/2017 21:30:45
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Replying To CeachtPeile: "Also:
7. Kerry are uniquely disadvantaged by this proposal. They now can only play in Munster so, if they win the qualifier group, they have to win a play-off against the bottom team in Munster. There's a minimal chance of that happening so they're effectively permanently stuck in the qualifier group. All other teams can qualify directly to play in Leinster if they win the qualifier group." Exactly, how would that even work? If they win the group, they play the 3rd place team in Munster. But even if they won, they'd still also have to play the bottom team in Munster regardless? This makes no sense, why is it just applicable to Munster? its completely, and another indication of the rushed and haphazard manner these proposals were cobbled together in.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 06/06/2017 21:37:02
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Replying To KYTotalFootball: "The big Munster teams have done all they can from preventing us try and compete with them over the years , I'm not surprised by this 1 county specific detail thrown in" While I think this play-off requirement for Kerry is ridiculous, I don't think Munster teams have "have done all they can" to prevent Kerry playing in Munster, why would they? How did they? Kerry took themselves out of the Munster championship after years of heavy beatings.
But just to clarify, this requirement on Kerry to play the bottom team in Munster for promotion is ridiculous.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 06/06/2017 21:40:52
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As a concession, Kerry should be allowed playoff against the 5th team if we finish in the top 2 of the qualifier group.
Given the standard of the traditional 5, I think it's fair enough that we should playoff. We should be granted leeway somewhere else however and finishing in the top 2 should be enough to earn the playoff place.
At the moment the proposals are still in the same form on the back of a cigarette box that was put away in the filing cabinet!
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 06/06/2017 21:49:49
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The Minor Championship structure is a joke!! Galway left out of the Leinster Minor Championship but our Under-21's are allowed participate in Leinster!!?!!
And this is the best bit.."The proposal's also encourage the consideration of Antrim to join the Leinster Minor Hurling Championship"
Hopefully our County Board stand up to this rubbish!
Supermacs88 (Galway) - Posts: 248 - 06/06/2017 21:53:16
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Replying To Supermacs88: "The Minor Championship structure is a joke!! Galway left out of the Leinster Minor Championship but our Under-21's are allowed participate in Leinster!!?!!
And this is the best bit.."The proposal's also encourage the consideration of Antrim to join the Leinster Minor Hurling Championship"
Hopefully our County Board stand up to this rubbish!" The under 21s being in Leinster is strange. They say they wanted to keep it regional for Wednesday night games. How do Galway play on a Wednesday night in Leinster?
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4235 - 06/06/2017 22:07:50
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It would seem that the whole proposal was designed around maintaining the 5 Munster teams each year. Kerry are the spanner in the works. If they continued to win the qualifier group or even managed to be part of the Munster 5 then the promotion/relegation in Leinster would probably come to a halt. I guess that at that stage the whole system would be redesigned around 6 team groups. If this unlikely scenario were to occur then better for hurling I say. I would love to see a strong kerry team compete in a 6 team Munster every year. The notion that we might be trying to keep em out is utter nonsense.
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 06/06/2017 22:08:09
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I told ye it was sh@te and no one paid heed to me.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 06/06/2017 22:13:03
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "While I think this play-off requirement for Kerry is ridiculous, I don't think Munster teams have "have done all they can" to prevent Kerry playing in Munster, why would they? How did they? Kerry took themselves out of the Munster championship after years of heavy beatings.
But just to clarify, this requirement on Kerry to play the bottom team in Munster for promotion is ridiculous." Funny that Tipp got hammered by Kerry in Football untold amount of times at all grades over the years yet there was never a mention of blockading them from competing in their own province
When we got promoted from the Christy Ring the thought of us being able to compete in Munster after Round Robin was shot down instantly. Which meant we would have to travel away 100% to play likes of Kilkenny & Wexford if we got through past Round Robin stage
KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 06/06/2017 22:20:01
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Replying To KYTotalFootball: "Funny that Tipp got hammered by Kerry in Football untold amount of times at all grades over the years yet there was never a mention of blockading them from competing in their own province
When we got promoted from the Christy Ring the thought of us being able to compete in Munster after Round Robin was shot down instantly. Which meant we would have to travel away 100% to play likes of Kilkenny & Wexford if we got through past Round Robin stage" I don't know what you're talking about, but you don't appear to either. Kerry hurlers withdrew themselves from the Munster championship, they weren't blockaded.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 06/06/2017 23:31:49
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