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Proposals For 2Nd Tier Championship Pathetic

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The reason this competition got the go ahead was the president of the GAA wanted to leave a legacy before departing; is this competition all they could come up with? A number of years ago, the GAA decided to have multiple layers in the hurling competition so that everyone could play at their own level and in theory, help teams progress up through the ranks like at club level where a team can go from junior to intermediate to senior except not one hurling team has made any progress. These competitions are played out with no coverage, results aren't even given, never mind footage and as was evidence this year, Carlow were relegated from Leinster having put in some good performances whereas Waterford who were abject were not relegated in Munster. This second tier competition is to ensure more games amongst the elite which has its super 8 except there aren't 8 super teams, only Dublin and 2-3 who may run them close on a good day. The GAA have no plans to make the playing fields a bit more level with regard to weaker counties; helping them to becomes stronger. If I was an inter county player in a weaker county, I wouldn't sign up to this format, a competition that has failed numerous times just to help a president with his legacy.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1054 - 22/10/2019 08:17:19    2244901

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "The reason this competition got the go ahead was the president of the GAA wanted to leave a legacy before departing; is this competition all they could come up with? A number of years ago, the GAA decided to have multiple layers in the hurling competition so that everyone could play at their own level and in theory, help teams progress up through the ranks like at club level where a team can go from junior to intermediate to senior except not one hurling team has made any progress. These competitions are played out with no coverage, results aren't even given, never mind footage and as was evidence this year, Carlow were relegated from Leinster having put in some good performances whereas Waterford who were abject were not relegated in Munster. This second tier competition is to ensure more games amongst the elite which has its super 8 except there aren't 8 super teams, only Dublin and 2-3 who may run them close on a good day. The GAA have no plans to make the playing fields a bit more level with regard to weaker counties; helping them to becomes stronger. If I was an inter county player in a weaker county, I wouldn't sign up to this format, a competition that has failed numerous times just to help a president with his legacy."
Very hard to argue against any of that.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2765 - 22/10/2019 12:24:34    2244923

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Choose Life,
Choose the League,
Choose emigrating for the summer,
Choose playing for your club,
Choose delegates 40 years removed from playing,
Choose capitalism over community,
Choose no media coverage,
Choose not playing championship games at home,
Choose a future professional game in all but name,
Choose John Horan's need for a legacy,
Choose Tier 2

Darragh (Westmeath) - Posts: 292 - 22/10/2019 12:57:15    2244931

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Replying To Darragh:  "Choose Life,
Choose the League,
Choose emigrating for the summer,
Choose playing for your club,
Choose delegates 40 years removed from playing,
Choose capitalism over community,
Choose no media coverage,
Choose not playing championship games at home,
Choose a future professional game in all but name,
Choose John Horan's need for a legacy,
Choose Tier 2"
Choose not to read anymore of your posts!

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 670 - 22/10/2019 13:22:45    2244941

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Replying To DUBJOHN:  "Choose not to read anymore of your posts!"
I bet you will........and I bet that I will have you gambling too.....just need to think of a way to outsmart your massive wit

Darragh (Westmeath) - Posts: 292 - 22/10/2019 14:53:22    2244974

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I don't get the lack of media coverage argument, as things stand division 3 & 4 get little media coverage so there not losing something they already hold, literally every section of gaa has tiered structures bar senior intercounty football weather its clubs, college competitions, ladies football etc.

I get the whole argument of the fixtures review committee possibly been undermined and the horan seem hellbend on pushing something through for his own self importance but the current championship structure was broken as far as I'm concerned so keeping that would have been the worst option in my view, alot of complaining for the sake of it and little solution to the problems been argued

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 22/10/2019 15:32:01    2244979

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Very hard to argue against any of that."
Carlow should not have been relegated and deserved better. However your point on Waterford. Do you think for one second that if the last ream in Munster was going to be relegated and it was Cork or Tipperary they would get relegated? It is just old Waterford so they should be relegated. This is a typical example of where weaker counties always wanting to kick another weaker county in the head and why so many things get passed at congress that don't benefit the under dogs.
An other example of this is Kerry voting against Waterford playing their home games in Leinster when they had no skin in the game.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 643 - 22/10/2019 17:04:38    2244999

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I see they've disbanded all stars for the joe mcdonagh good. A sign of things to come for tier 2 footballers.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 631 - 22/10/2019 17:06:51    2245000

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Replying To wexico15:  "I don't get the lack of media coverage argument, as things stand division 3 & 4 get little media coverage so there not losing something they already hold, literally every section of gaa has tiered structures bar senior intercounty football weather its clubs, college competitions, ladies football etc.

I get the whole argument of the fixtures review committee possibly been undermined and the horan seem hellbend on pushing something through for his own self importance but the current championship structure was broken as far as I'm concerned so keeping that would have been the worst option in my view, alot of complaining for the sake of it and little solution to the problems been argued"
My problem is that it's an opportunity for meaningful change lost.

I'm not against a second tier championship structures correctly. This isn't it.

A good improvement to the season would be for their to be more competitive fixtures added to the height of the season. This doesn't do that. There's 1 game less a season now.

Even if it gets honest buy in, the best 3rd division teams that reach the tier 2 final will get a maximum of 4 games in this competition.

The teams are going to be the likes of Armagh, Tipp, Clare, Westmeath, Laois. These teams are just as capable as getting to the super 8s as they are of winning a tier 2. 1 division 3/4 team on average has reached the last 8 per year since the qualifiers began.

A big reason to bring in tiered competition is that more games can be facilitated in the top championship and it could become a better tournament and could also have competitive relegation games in it.

They completely neglected to improve the top tier competition. Any meaning to be generated in the second tier would come from the reward of being promoted to the top tier. If the top tier is rubbish (which it still is, with teams only guaranteed one game) where is the reward for winning tier 2.

The process has stunk. John Horan wanted a tier 2. This system really seems to have been put in place because it was the easiest tier 2 to be implemented. That's not the order in which this should work. It should be what is the best way to organise our competitions, if that structure then involves a tiered championship then so be it. It shouldn't be a case of deciding on 2 tiers purely from ideological reasons.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2765 - 22/10/2019 17:20:31    2245003

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Horans legacy will be one of overseeing a mass Exodus of talented footballers who will choose to head to America for the summer months rather than be involved in a tier two competition that had no name. Nice one John

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 461 - 22/10/2019 17:28:19    2245010

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Replying To Canuck:  "Carlow should not have been relegated and deserved better. However your point on Waterford. Do you think for one second that if the last ream in Munster was going to be relegated and it was Cork or Tipperary they would get relegated? It is just old Waterford so they should be relegated. This is a typical example of where weaker counties always wanting to kick another weaker county in the head and why so many things get passed at congress that don't benefit the under dogs.
An other example of this is Kerry voting against Waterford playing their home games in Leinster when they had no skin in the game."
I think relegation should be decided on the field rather than by geography.

It could also have seen Carlow stay up for instance if Kerry had emerged as the McDonagh champions.

The quirky promotion structure is a farce and comes from having the group stages be Provincial based.

It should be 2 groups of 6 played with no regional groups.

Provincial championships played in advance.

Seed the group stage so that each section gets 1 Provincial champion, the runner up from the other Province, a semifinalist from each Province and 2 other teams.

Maybe guarantee Provincial champions 3 home games also.

Top 3 to the 6 team All Ireland playoffs, no more Preliminary quarterfinals.

6th placed teams in each group playoff against relegation.

Fair and exciting, with room for 3 developing teams.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2765 - 22/10/2019 18:03:39    2245018

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Replying To neverright:  "Why?"
Limerick's in the way.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 88 - 22/10/2019 18:06:07    2245019

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You know what's also really bad.

Neither competition gets played until we get all the Provincial finalists decided.

Teams in both tiers could find themselves doing sweet fa for weeks before getting back out playing.

Based on last year's Provincial calendars a team losing on 11th May and not being out again until about the 15th June at the earliest. 5 weeks between games ffs. That could happen to Cavan this year. This system isn't even good for teams in the top tier.

Will Cavan players wait around for 5 weeks to play just 1 more guaranteed game?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2765 - 22/10/2019 18:16:16    2245022

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Replying To MillerX:  "Now that Horan has got his way it is only a matter of time until the present 16 who are 'guaranteed' tier 1 football will be whittled down to a Super 10 or 12 for a fully covered Sky 'championship' and to hell with the rest of the country, they may be admitted to the elite group by meeting criteria not exactly compatible with ability but with their ability to generate lucre for Sky and by a then unrecognisable GAA.....mark my words....this is where we are going. Disgraceful, sad to see chickens from the weaker counties acting like lemmings."
Disgraceful, sad to see chickens from the weaker counties acting like lemmings. - - - - incencidive to say the least, Mus musculus perhaps may fit your own description.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 1961 - 22/10/2019 23:03:09    2245116

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Replying To Darragh:  "I bet you will........and I bet that I will have you gambling too.....just need to think of a way to outsmart your massive wit"
Good luck with that bud!

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 670 - 23/10/2019 10:32:47    2245164

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I think relegation should be decided on the field rather than by geography.

It could also have seen Carlow stay up for instance if Kerry had emerged as the McDonagh champions.

The quirky promotion structure is a farce and comes from having the group stages be Provincial based.

It should be 2 groups of 6 played with no regional groups.

Provincial championships played in advance.

Seed the group stage so that each section gets 1 Provincial champion, the runner up from the other Province, a semifinalist from each Province and 2 other teams.

Maybe guarantee Provincial champions 3 home games also.

Top 3 to the 6 team All Ireland playoffs, no more Preliminary quarterfinals.

6th placed teams in each group playoff against relegation.

Fair and exciting, with room for 3 developing teams."
Your proposal makes good sense but this not how these structures are done or fairness taken into account either. Taking you back again to your point on Carlow been relegated in hurling and Waterford not. While Waterford benefited from this I don't believe you are naive enough to believe that the system was designed for our benefit. You seem like a smart chap. It was designed to make sure the elites in Munster would not get relegated. With Waterford over the past 10 years getting into many All-Ireland semis and Clare also at the top of their game it was a strong possibility Cork or Tipp could end up last. In fact this could occur any year with the parity in Munster and that was never going to be allowed.

There are too many instances where the weaker counties seem to prefer to stick the boot into their similar counties. Either they are sending dummies to represent them or they are in awe of the big guns. O ya! they are representing their clubs. You think? This 2 tier system is more of the same and the dogs in the street know it will do nothing to improve standards with the weaker counties. However the big guys will get richer and stronger.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 643 - 24/10/2019 13:41:55    2245461

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It will lead to more competitive club championships in division 3 and 4 counties, because players will not hang around for this comp

Byebyecola (USA) - Posts: 9 - 24/10/2019 14:27:41    2245471

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Replying To Canuck:  "Your proposal makes good sense but this not how these structures are done or fairness taken into account either. Taking you back again to your point on Carlow been relegated in hurling and Waterford not. While Waterford benefited from this I don't believe you are naive enough to believe that the system was designed for our benefit. You seem like a smart chap. It was designed to make sure the elites in Munster would not get relegated. With Waterford over the past 10 years getting into many All-Ireland semis and Clare also at the top of their game it was a strong possibility Cork or Tipp could end up last. In fact this could occur any year with the parity in Munster and that was never going to be allowed.

There are too many instances where the weaker counties seem to prefer to stick the boot into their similar counties. Either they are sending dummies to represent them or they are in awe of the big guns. O ya! they are representing their clubs. You think? This 2 tier system is more of the same and the dogs in the street know it will do nothing to improve standards with the weaker counties. However the big guys will get richer and stronger."
I agree with everything you are saying, I agree they've put in the relegation system as is to protect the top Munster teams and the average quality is harder in Munster than Leinster.

I don't like the system one bit though.

It's a fudge to keep the Provincial championship and the game would be in a better place without them being in play.

It isn't even about travel times or local rivalries any more with Galway in Leinster.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2765 - 24/10/2019 15:14:35    2245493

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The Championship should be played alongside the League in the spring/summer. I'd even be in favour of inviting more teams over from the UK to compete in the League. Kilkenny, Scotland, Warwickshire, and Yorkshire gives us 36 teams. We could have 3 divisions of 12. 3 up and 3 down between each division.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 187 - 24/10/2019 18:19:22    2245551

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