Cavan Forum

U17 Championship

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Anyone know what way the championship structure is for u17 see alot of teams are close on points. Interesting to see the results of St Oliver's seem to be quite far ahead of all the other teams.

indaknow2018 (Cavan) - Posts: 17 - 03/09/2018 11:07:03    2138694

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Replying To indaknow2018:  "Anyone know what way the championship structure is for u17 see alot of teams are close on points. Interesting to see the results of St Oliver's seem to be quite far ahead of all the other teams."
Well when you can call on 12 of the St Pats Rannafast winning squad and have the luxury of leaving a current starting U16 county player on the bench you'd want to be far ahead of the other teams.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 03/09/2018 11:50:51    2138736

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Replying To aceofspades:  "Well when you can call on 12 of the St Pats Rannafast winning squad and have the luxury of leaving a current starting U16 county player on the bench you'd want to be far ahead of the other teams."
I am back to my original post prior to the Championship - regardless of what people have said on here both clubs should be able to field on their own, makes no sense at all. It is all about winning with these two clubs , but in a few years when their non St Pats players or the average lad is not playing for their club they might like to look back on this decision. I was at a Cavan Gaels game last year and they were beaten by an amalgamated team - Cavan Gaels with 7 subs the other team 3 so must of been a massive drop out from League to Championship.
Anyhow they were allowed so the Co Board need to step up, just surprising that some of the other Clubs didn't consider the same
They have this championship wrapped up regardless so good luck to them .

indaknow2018 (Cavan) - Posts: 17 - 03/09/2018 12:27:15    2138760

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Replying To indaknow2018:  "I am back to my original post prior to the Championship - regardless of what people have said on here both clubs should be able to field on their own, makes no sense at all. It is all about winning with these two clubs , but in a few years when their non St Pats players or the average lad is not playing for their club they might like to look back on this decision. I was at a Cavan Gaels game last year and they were beaten by an amalgamated team - Cavan Gaels with 7 subs the other team 3 so must of been a massive drop out from League to Championship.
Anyhow they were allowed so the Co Board need to step up, just surprising that some of the other Clubs didn't consider the same
They have this championship wrapped up regardless so good luck to them ."
You are dead right. It is all short term stuff. Their club will suffer in the long run but at least they can blame all the foreigners for it.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 03/09/2018 13:41:55    2138793

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If they wanted to win all around them, they would've amalgamated before the league started, both teams tried to go out on their own, however, if you look back at the league games, both the Gaels and Killygarry conceded more games than they played and both ended bottom of the division. There was strong opposition in both clubs to amalgamation, both they really had no other choice, it was either amalgamate or withdraw, meaning kids would get no football.

Both teams were very much willing to play on their own in the championship had the County Board accepted their proposals to reduce the competition to 13 aside and any of your underage chairperson's will validate that for you if you want to check, however, the Co Board rejected it. Yeah, they might have a number of St Pats players on the team, but they still only have a panel of 26 players, hardly enough to go out on their own.

Its funny, there wasn't a mention or an issue with amalgamations until the Gaels and Killygarry decide to amalgamate this year.... Southern Gaels and all the other amalgamations were battering teams down the years, and not a eyelid was batted or a concern raised until now!!

If you want to have a go at amalgamations, maybe ask why some amalgamations have entered two teams in some competitions or how some teams have continued with amalgamations every year despite have plenty of numbers to go on their own.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 03/09/2018 15:02:34    2138831

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Replying To indaknow2018:  "I am back to my original post prior to the Championship - regardless of what people have said on here both clubs should be able to field on their own, makes no sense at all. It is all about winning with these two clubs , but in a few years when their non St Pats players or the average lad is not playing for their club they might like to look back on this decision. I was at a Cavan Gaels game last year and they were beaten by an amalgamated team - Cavan Gaels with 7 subs the other team 3 so must of been a massive drop out from League to Championship.
Anyhow they were allowed so the Co Board need to step up, just surprising that some of the other Clubs didn't consider the same
They have this championship wrapped up regardless so good luck to them ."
You are incorrect here. At this age group Cavan Gaels never had seven subs from U -13 to now at U-17. They went to Feile and had only 19 players when a panel was of 24 was allowed. They played a league final last year in Crosskeys against Dromolan Gaels and had only two subs .

evano11 (Cavan) - Posts: 265 - 03/09/2018 16:18:30    2138869

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "If they wanted to win all around them, they would've amalgamated before the league started, both teams tried to go out on their own, however, if you look back at the league games, both the Gaels and Killygarry conceded more games than they played and both ended bottom of the division. There was strong opposition in both clubs to amalgamation, both they really had no other choice, it was either amalgamate or withdraw, meaning kids would get no football.

Both teams were very much willing to play on their own in the championship had the County Board accepted their proposals to reduce the competition to 13 aside and any of your underage chairperson's will validate that for you if you want to check, however, the Co Board rejected it. Yeah, they might have a number of St Pats players on the team, but they still only have a panel of 26 players, hardly enough to go out on their own.

Its funny, there wasn't a mention or an issue with amalgamations until the Gaels and Killygarry decide to amalgamate this year.... Southern Gaels and all the other amalgamations were battering teams down the years, and not a eyelid was batted or a concern raised until now!!

If you want to have a go at amalgamations, maybe ask why some amalgamations have entered two teams in some competitions or how some teams have continued with amalgamations every year despite have plenty of numbers to go on their own."
If you look back at the league you'll see the Gaels played 3 games, beat Killygarry,drew with Lough Uachtar and lost by 3 points to Drumlane, therefore accumulating 3 points from their 3 games. Trinity Gaels on the other hand finished with 4 points through the concession of their games by the Gaels & Killygarry , they never won a point and were beaten in their other 5 games. In reality the Gaels were not the second worst team in the division and their league points won per game was on a par with Lough Uachtar. If the Co Board were to reduce the competition to 13 a side then wouldn't that mean about 50/60 other lads wouldn't get playing football? maybe they should've created a Division 5 for 13 a side teams. I think you know and keep referencing it that there was a major issue last year and still is with the Drumloman amalgamation, two clubs who could field teams on their own. Amalgamations have won 4 out of the last 10 minor titles with no amalgamation winning 2 so you can't say that any has being battering teams on a constant basis.The concern with Oliver Plunketts is that these are two teams who have known success from U12 level up, but still can't hold on to their players, what chances have less successful teams of keeping players together ? Last year Killygarry had at least 20 lads , and the Gaels 17/19 maybe more togged out for the finals they played in, but this year with both clubs joined can only muster a panel of 26.This has to be a major concern not only for both clubs but for football in general in the county, and we can't be blaming other sports like basketball, soccer, athletics as these are predominantly winter sports played from September to March.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 04/09/2018 10:25:50    2139068

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Replying To aceofspades:  "If you look back at the league you'll see the Gaels played 3 games, beat Killygarry,drew with Lough Uachtar and lost by 3 points to Drumlane, therefore accumulating 3 points from their 3 games. Trinity Gaels on the other hand finished with 4 points through the concession of their games by the Gaels & Killygarry , they never won a point and were beaten in their other 5 games. In reality the Gaels were not the second worst team in the division and their league points won per game was on a par with Lough Uachtar. If the Co Board were to reduce the competition to 13 a side then wouldn't that mean about 50/60 other lads wouldn't get playing football? maybe they should've created a Division 5 for 13 a side teams. I think you know and keep referencing it that there was a major issue last year and still is with the Drumloman amalgamation, two clubs who could field teams on their own. Amalgamations have won 4 out of the last 10 minor titles with no amalgamation winning 2 so you can't say that any has being battering teams on a constant basis.The concern with Oliver Plunketts is that these are two teams who have known success from U12 level up, but still can't hold on to their players, what chances have less successful teams of keeping players together ? Last year Killygarry had at least 20 lads , and the Gaels 17/19 maybe more togged out for the finals they played in, but this year with both clubs joined can only muster a panel of 26.This has to be a major concern not only for both clubs but for football in general in the county, and we can't be blaming other sports like basketball, soccer, athletics as these are predominantly winter sports played from September to March."
Seriously, what a load of nonsense. How on earth was the Gaels points won be on par with Loch Uachtar, when the Gaels conceded 4 of their games? As I said before, get your facts right before you start posting about something you nothing about. If you actually look back to the time when the Gaels played Killygarry, both teams played 13 aside as neither had 15 players - so in fact, the game was null and void and meant nothing to both teams, but the County Board mistakenly put it down as a Gaels win. So, in essence, a draw against Loch Uachtar was the only point the Gaels won in Division One.
Divisions 3 - 5 are all 13 aside, so there was absolutely no reason why the co board couldn't have made Division One 13 aside. If it was 13 aside, there would've been no need for teams to call on many of their u15s to field teams and I'm not sure why you think 50/60 lads wouldn't get football?? Last year the Gaels had 2 subs togged out for the u16 final, whilst Drumloman had a second team of subs on the bench, you might recall the speech from the underage secretary at the time referencing that!
In addition, I'm not sure where you get your facts from, but I can tell you that basketball, soccer, and athletics are certainly not just winter sports and do not stop in March.

But it still amazes me why theres now suddenly an issue with two teams amalgamating, when there was no such issue previously, so please enlighten me as to why the Gaels and Killygarry are now amalgamating. There are no rules around it, so theyve done nothing wrong.

If your so worried about underage football in general, ask your club underage chairperson how many players in your club who are u18 but too old for u17 that havent played any club football this years, ask them to contact the Co board and ask how many 18,19 and 20 yr olds are there in all the clubs who havent had any club football this year, ask them how they think an u20 competition run over 5 weeks in November is enough to keep players interested.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 04/09/2018 14:20:27    2139145

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If Cavan Gaels or Killygarry cannot field a team on their own at any level than that is due to one thing and one thing only, their own incompetence in bring along the kids from their hinterland. Any other "excuse" is just rubbish.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 04/09/2018 14:57:00    2139160

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "Seriously, what a load of nonsense. How on earth was the Gaels points won be on par with Loch Uachtar, when the Gaels conceded 4 of their games? As I said before, get your facts right before you start posting about something you nothing about. If you actually look back to the time when the Gaels played Killygarry, both teams played 13 aside as neither had 15 players - so in fact, the game was null and void and meant nothing to both teams, but the County Board mistakenly put it down as a Gaels win. So, in essence, a draw against Loch Uachtar was the only point the Gaels won in Division One.
Divisions 3 - 5 are all 13 aside, so there was absolutely no reason why the co board couldn't have made Division One 13 aside. If it was 13 aside, there would've been no need for teams to call on many of their u15s to field teams and I'm not sure why you think 50/60 lads wouldn't get football?? Last year the Gaels had 2 subs togged out for the u16 final, whilst Drumloman had a second team of subs on the bench, you might recall the speech from the underage secretary at the time referencing that!
In addition, I'm not sure where you get your facts from, but I can tell you that basketball, soccer, and athletics are certainly not just winter sports and do not stop in March.

But it still amazes me why theres now suddenly an issue with two teams amalgamating, when there was no such issue previously, so please enlighten me as to why the Gaels and Killygarry are now amalgamating. There are no rules around it, so theyve done nothing wrong.

If your so worried about underage football in general, ask your club underage chairperson how many players in your club who are u18 but too old for u17 that havent played any club football this years, ask them to contact the Co board and ask how many 18,19 and 20 yr olds are there in all the clubs who havent had any club football this year, ask them how they think an u20 competition run over 5 weeks in November is enough to keep players interested."
Divisions 3-5 are 13 a side? tell me who's in Division 5 didn't realise there was one! Why didn't the Gaels or Killygarry play in Divisions 3 or 4 seeing as they are 13 a side? why should Division 1 go to 13 a side just because two clubs require it? hell why not make it 11 a side then clubs like ,Cornafean,Denn, Lavey , Drung etc could put out teams in their own right and maybe more lads would get playing. It's a bit selfish of ye to expect the Co Board to accede to your request for 13 a side competition when there's 13 other teams in Divisions 1&2 agreeable to play 15 a side and therefore give 26 more players a starting place. I was basing the 50/60 lads , losing out on football, on approximately 30 teams playing 13 a side as opposed to 15 a side, As for basketball and soccer as I said they are predominately winter sports and you'll find the local Town soccer clubs season at U14 & 15 (no U16 teams) was finished in March if not before, and, ok the basketball league was finished in April. Yes there were issues with other teams amalgamating but unlike yourself they didn't appear on social media platforms making excuses for it.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 04/09/2018 15:40:19    2139173

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D
Why didn't the Gaels and Killygarry play in Division 3 ? thats a question you'll need to ask the County Board. Why did Trinity Gaels go down into Division 2 having finished above the Gaels and Killygarry? another question that you need to ask the Co Board. No lads would lose out on any football if Divisions One and Two were 13 aside - thats a load of nonsense as most teams in those Divisions had to call on a number of their u15s to make up their numbers, so if those Divisions were indeed 13 aside, there would be no need to call on the u15s. In any case, it wasn't just the Gaels and Killygarry that proposed a 13 aside competition, other single teams in Division One and Two proposed it as well - I know so, because I attended and took the minutes of many a meeting this year. As for the soccer finishing in April, I can tell you it certainly did not finish in April, there were players involved in the u15 and u17 CMUL and Airtricity squads and so on.

I have absolutely no issues with amalgamation where teams are low in numbers and its the only option, its seems that its you that have the issue with, yet you have absolutely no facts about it.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 04/09/2018 17:00:31    2139198

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "D
Why didn't the Gaels and Killygarry play in Division 3 ? thats a question you'll need to ask the County Board. Why did Trinity Gaels go down into Division 2 having finished above the Gaels and Killygarry? another question that you need to ask the Co Board. No lads would lose out on any football if Divisions One and Two were 13 aside - thats a load of nonsense as most teams in those Divisions had to call on a number of their u15s to make up their numbers, so if those Divisions were indeed 13 aside, there would be no need to call on the u15s. In any case, it wasn't just the Gaels and Killygarry that proposed a 13 aside competition, other single teams in Division One and Two proposed it as well - I know so, because I attended and took the minutes of many a meeting this year. As for the soccer finishing in April, I can tell you it certainly did not finish in April, there were players involved in the u15 and u17 CMUL and Airtricity squads and so on.

I have absolutely no issues with amalgamation where teams are low in numbers and its the only option, its seems that its you that have the issue with, yet you have absolutely no facts about it."
No need to ask the Co Board anything, as you say you were there, you took the minutes, you tell me.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 05/09/2018 09:17:10    2139334

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "There nothing new about that. In the 70s Killygarry / Gaels / Drumalee known as Oliver Plunketts won 1/2 u16 championships same time as the Gaels were winning senior titles.
In fact for lads like Ciaran o Keefe , Cyril o Keefe , sean Leddy , Brendan Crowe all won minor and underage medals with the Gaels. So there nothing new there."
The U17 Semi Finals have been decided I assume it is 1 v 4 and 2 V 3 ? Does anyone know?? . Was at St Olivers & Lough Uachtar game yday eve , the Plunkett amalgamation were not impressive as I have heard and read good things about them. I was standing with one of the Killygarry lads and he said it was a completely different team than has been out for previous games and they were playing well below their potential. I hope they were resting lads on merit not to get a easier draw as suggest by the Clubman but to be fair to him he was not sure he was just making conversation. Some nice football on display all the same. Look forward to the Semi Finals , I assume will be played in neutral venues ?

indaknow2018 (Cavan) - Posts: 17 - 06/09/2018 09:32:14    2139731

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Open draw for semi-finals, Plunketts had already qualified, so there was nothing at stake for them. Loch Ouchtar needed at least a point from their last 2 games to get into the semi's. Sliabh Glah need a point from their last game to pip Dernacrieve to a spot.
Plunketts missing a few players from illness and injury, they didn't play to their full potential, and they'll not be too disappointed having only lost by a point. Thomas Doonan was referee and he was scandalous, Loch Oughtar play should have got a straight red for striking in front of Doonan, but only received a yellow card. Loch Oughtar deserve full credit for their win, they were hungry and aggressive and wanted it more.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 06/09/2018 13:44:16    2139817

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "Open draw for semi-finals, Plunketts had already qualified, so there was nothing at stake for them. Loch Ouchtar needed at least a point from their last 2 games to get into the semi's. Sliabh Glah need a point from their last game to pip Dernacrieve to a spot.
Plunketts missing a few players from illness and injury, they didn't play to their full potential, and they'll not be too disappointed having only lost by a point. Thomas Doonan was referee and he was scandalous, Loch Oughtar play should have got a straight red for striking in front of Doonan, but only received a yellow card. Loch Oughtar deserve full credit for their win, they were hungry and aggressive and wanted it more."
Oliver Plunetts Drumloman Lough Uachtar on are on 8 points
Sliabh Glah are on 6 and Dernacrieve on 4

Lough Uachtar V Dernacrieve

Oliver P V Sliabh Glach

Would Sliabh Glach not go through on head to head anyhow if Dernaceve won and Sliab Glach were beaten.?

indaknow2018 (Cavan) - Posts: 17 - 06/09/2018 15:21:32    2139842

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7 out of 10 Under 17 Championship matches conceded on Saturday. Yet the Co Board thinks all is well !

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 09/09/2018 18:01:49    2140511

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "Open draw for semi-finals, Plunketts had already qualified, so there was nothing at stake for them. Loch Ouchtar needed at least a point from their last 2 games to get into the semi's. Sliabh Glah need a point from their last game to pip Dernacrieve to a spot.
Plunketts missing a few players from illness and injury, they didn't play to their full potential, and they'll not be too disappointed having only lost by a point. Thomas Doonan was referee and he was scandalous, Loch Oughtar play should have got a straight red for striking in front of Doonan, but only received a yellow card. Loch Oughtar deserve full credit for their win, they were hungry and aggressive and wanted it more."
Strange how you should mention about how a young lad should've being sent off but omitted to tell us about the adult who entered the pitch to confront the young lad but ended up leaving the pitch with his tail (and shirt) between his legs.
Anyway how many players have ye lost to the auld soccer, one? would that be right?

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 11/09/2018 10:45:49    2140947

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Replying To aceofspades:  "Strange how you should mention about how a young lad should've being sent off but omitted to tell us about the adult who entered the pitch to confront the young lad but ended up leaving the pitch with his tail (and shirt) between his legs.
Anyway how many players have ye lost to the auld soccer, one? would that be right?"
Its strange why you think an adult going on the pitch to break up a melee was more important than a lad striking another player and only getting a yellow card for it. I seem to remember a number of adults on the pitch, including a current member of the Cavan Senior Team being on it, and he wasnt really setting an example to young players.

But as I said, Loch Ouchtar fully deserved their win, albeit, with the referee giving them everything in their favour, but thats to be expected, given that most people were against the Gaels and Killygarry amalgamating in the first place. Onwards and upwards as they say, in fairness, Plunketts are only playing together 6 weeks now, whilst all the other semi-finalists have been together since before Christmas, so there's no doubt that the semi-final will be a very close contest.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 14/09/2018 13:47:51    2141703

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Have to ask if anyone on here is surprised to see the killygarry/gaels hammering drumloman in the semi?????? Disgrace they were let amalgamate in the first place

cavaman1234 (Cavan) - Posts: 12 - 25/09/2018 12:56:05    2143715

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Replying To cavaman1234:  "Have to ask if anyone on here is surprised to see the killygarry/gaels hammering drumloman in the semi?????? Disgrace they were let amalgamate in the first place"
They beat them by 8 points, same as what Loch Ouchtar beat Sliabh Glah by so whats the problem? Amalgamations have been handing out hammerings over the last few years, so why only raise the issue now?

Why is it a disgrace though? There's no rules around amalgamations so there's nothing stopping any teams from amalgamating, but sure isn't it great to see a bunch of u17s getting regular football, the alternative being no football for them.

Best of luck to both teams in the final, which I'm sure will be very competitive.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 25/09/2018 13:54:44    2143730

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