Cavan Forum

The Qualifiers

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Replying To Jimjo:  "handicap is Tyrone -4 in places .....

do yourselves a big favor .... get on it"
This is probably the poorest Tyrone team of the last 15 years. They not playing that well.
In saying that it's probably still good enough to beat us.
Peter Harte is the player that Always does the damage against us. So I'd expect a big plan to deal with him.
Could be a hiding if we let the game run away from us otherwise I'd expect even this so called poor Tyrone team to win by 2/3 points.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 28/06/2018 11:53:29    2116357

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Replying To Jimjo:  "handicap is Tyrone -4 in places .....

do yourselves a big favor .... get on it"
How does that work what odds would you get if you gave Tyrone -15 or - 20 If I am thinking right you are giving Cavan a 4 point start is that correct so would I be giving them a 15 or 20 point start ???

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4496 - 28/06/2018 11:55:43    2116359

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poorest Tyrone team in a decade - yes absolutely
but they are not a joke... so should have plenty for this Cavan set up
the gulf between teams like Cavan ( a div 3 team from April to December) and real teams is huge ... look at beatings being handed out around the country

if Tyrone win by more than 4 points ... 10/11 is the usual odds

Jimjo (Cavan) - Posts: 55 - 28/06/2018 12:25:29    2116378

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "What did we nearly win when we had all these players before?"
Read my post again, where in it do I say about winning anything? I said when we had all them playing we were competitive, read slowly and in future and let it register with you.

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 706 - 28/06/2018 12:29:06    2116379

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Lads I am hearing a lot about the top players in Cavan who are not committing to the county effort. Wondering who exactly is included in the reckoning here? I am guessing Givney, McEnroe, barry reilly, josh hayes, argue, niall mcdermott and maybe jack brady all would be on the list?

If these players were all available, do you think it would push Cavan ahead of Donegal, Monaghan and Tyrone? Genuine question now.

Tyrone are there to be beaten by the way"
It wouldn't put us ahead of Monaghan etc, but you're missing the point. It would undoubtedly make us a significantly better team. We had many near misses in Ulster (three times against yourselves), and against Tyrone in 2016, where there was really nothing between the teams, and we just didn't get the rub of the green to see us over the line. I firmly believe our game against yous in Breifne in 2015 was the chance of a breakthrough and we blew it.

However, I haven't got the time to explain who is committing and who isn't, so I'll point you in the direction of this excellent article that appeared in the celt a few weeks ago. It makes for desperately depressing reading, all we Cavan supporters want is an explanation of how we managed to squander so much promising talent. A bit of accountability would be nice.

http://www.anglocelt.ie/sport/roundup/articles/2018/05/25/4156524-opinion-time-to-shout-stop-before-bright-future-is-squandered/

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 353 - 28/06/2018 12:30:29    2116381

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Replying To The Quiet Man:  "I will add a few more McGlade McGlade Sheridan Meehan Durham James Brady Fortune there are many more out there being ignored. Some quality players even from Ballyhaise Belturbet and Redhills ignored. If they were looked after and encouraged we might well have a top 8 team contenders every year not struggling to beat the Downs Wicklow Carlows Longford who are better than Cavan right now. Lads heading to America to get a few bob and sadly the majority of them come home with nothing. Maybe time the equivalent in EURO from what they get in Dollars was lodged into their account to help them towards their accommodation and college fees we as a county might well bring back the glory day's. A little imagination goes a long way."
Barkey?

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 706 - 28/06/2018 12:36:56    2116385

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Lads, will you stop please. Yes, there are some very good footballers in Cavan, but there's no quality players in Cavan. If there was, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and we wouldn't have gone since 1997 without a trophy. Cavan Football is poor, has been for many a years, the previous manager masked the poorness by putting 15 men behind the ball, which some people on this forum would call competitive. I'll tell you now, and mark my words, Cavan Football, and in particular, many clubs in Cavan are in very serious trouble.
If you want to ask serious questions as to why this is, ask the Co Board, ask those people within the administration who are getting paid, as to why this is.

When you have some of the biggest clubs in Cavan, including the County Champions struggling to field teams at minor level, and other notable teams amalgamating at minor level, then you know you have serious issues. I ask you to look at the minor league this year and see how many games were conceded this year. Look at the reserve league and see how many games didn't go ahead.
Ask your club secretary how many players (over the u17 grade and under 20) that didn't play any football this year, ask them why they didn't play, ill tell you why because there's no football for them, many of them arent good enough or strong enough just yet for Senior Football, many of them cant get reserve football, because there isn't any. Ask your club secretary how many players from underage have graduated to senior level in the last 10yrs, ask your club secretary what has your club done to prevent 75% of players aged 21-25 quitting the game.

That my friends is the main reason why Cavan Football is in decline.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 440 - 28/06/2018 13:12:19    2116397

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Replying To The Quiet Man:  "I will add a few more McGlade McGlade Sheridan Meehan Durham James Brady Fortune there are many more out there being ignored. Some quality players even from Ballyhaise Belturbet and Redhills ignored. If they were looked after and encouraged we might well have a top 8 team contenders every year not struggling to beat the Downs Wicklow Carlows Longford who are better than Cavan right now. Lads heading to America to get a few bob and sadly the majority of them come home with nothing. Maybe time the equivalent in EURO from what they get in Dollars was lodged into their account to help them towards their accommodation and college fees we as a county might well bring back the glory day's. A little imagination goes a long way."
Some of them players were called in and refused.

We didn't struggle to beat Wicklow.

And who is in America?

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 28/06/2018 13:29:06    2116407

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Replying To blueman1903:  "Barkey?"
Yes another there are many more blueman1903.

reference the article in the Celt a few weeks ago it's not telling the full truth this I can say without fear of contradiction.
I asked a few of the lads why they would not come in and everyone off them to a man said they were not asked except one person who is a dairy farmer and could not give the commitment. This is where the county board should stand up and support these talented players who just cannot commit because of what they do. Charlie Clarke was a dairy farmer and he could not commit either but wanted to play for the county, he could not go away on bonding weekends and other things that go on. How many more are like him that have an abundance of talent are lost because they will not get support.
We have to find a way to help these lads, most that are trying to get an education have to get summer work to help them when away from home with pocket money and fees.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4496 - 28/06/2018 13:52:34    2116413

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Replying To The Quiet Man:  "Yes another there are many more blueman1903.

reference the article in the Celt a few weeks ago it's not telling the full truth this I can say without fear of contradiction.
I asked a few of the lads why they would not come in and everyone off them to a man said they were not asked except one person who is a dairy farmer and could not give the commitment. This is where the county board should stand up and support these talented players who just cannot commit because of what they do. Charlie Clarke was a dairy farmer and he could not commit either but wanted to play for the county, he could not go away on bonding weekends and other things that go on. How many more are like him that have an abundance of talent are lost because they will not get support.
We have to find a way to help these lads, most that are trying to get an education have to get summer work to help them when away from home with pocket money and fees."
Very good post quiet man Charlie Clarke had some potential he was excellent for baileboro on the run to 1995 ulster final.

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 706 - 28/06/2018 14:34:07    2116424

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Replying To The Quiet Man:  "I will add a few more McGlade McGlade Sheridan Meehan Durham James Brady Fortune there are many more out there being ignored. Some quality players even from Ballyhaise Belturbet and Redhills ignored. If they were looked after and encouraged we might well have a top 8 team contenders every year not struggling to beat the Downs Wicklow Carlows Longford who are better than Cavan right now. Lads heading to America to get a few bob and sadly the majority of them come home with nothing. Maybe time the equivalent in EURO from what they get in Dollars was lodged into their account to help them towards their accommodation and college fees we as a county might well bring back the glory day's. A little imagination goes a long way."
You really can't be blaming lads going to America as a reason behind Cavan's lack of success. Of the current panel our captain Dara Mcveety spent a summer stateside as did Killian Clarke and Padraig Faulkner and there may be more , did it do them lads any harm? Dick Clerkin from Monaghan played in the States for a few years in the early 2000's didn't retire from inter county football until he was 34 years of age.
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You and others have mentioned numerous players not on the county panel for whatever reasons, why not mention the lads we have, who are prepared to give their total commitment to the county, all we seem to hear is negativity towards them , yet these lads have got us back to Division 1 and we've actually won two games in a row in the qualifiers which hasn't happened since 2013.This Saturday these lads will take to the field once again to represent their county ,so why not get down to Brewster and give them the vocal support they deserve.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 222 - 28/06/2018 15:16:22    2116437

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "This is probably the poorest Tyrone team of the last 15 years. They not playing that well.
In saying that it's probably still good enough to beat us.
Peter Harte is the player that Always does the damage against us. So I'd expect a big plan to deal with him.
Could be a hiding if we let the game run away from us otherwise I'd expect even this so called poor Tyrone team to win by 2/3 points."
Can't actually see how Tyrone would be that poor seeing as they won back to back Ulster's in 2016/17 reached the All Ireland semi's last year and beat Kildare, Donegal, Mayo and Kerry in this years league , they may be just have being going through a bad patch. I'd say their team from 2011-2015 has being their poorest team in the last 15 years. Seem to recall you stating that Donegal were a poor team also before we played them in the Championship and now they're Ulster champions. If Cavan can beat Tyrone on Saturday it will be a job well done not because Tyrone are a poor team.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 222 - 28/06/2018 15:47:59    2116443

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Martin Dunne anyone?
Our most prolific scorer in recent years.

Damien O'Reilly
Thomas Corr
Ronan Flanagan
Niall McDermott
Eugene Keating
Rory Dunne
Paul O'Connor
Bud Fits


All these and many more (as well as those mentioned in above posts) would improve the current panel significantly.


We are division 1 in 2019 with a squad and management probably weaker than the Cavan Gaels squad - there's something blatantly wrong right there!


In saying that - we've had some slices of luck that I've never seen a Cavan team get before.
Remember Beggan handling the ball on the ground in 2013.
The "TMO" incident at half time vs roscommon and the 2 goals they scored by hopping the ball twice.
The width of the post saving Monaghan in 2017.

The bounce of the ball seems to be with us right now for some reason. I'd put Tyrone as 1/2 favourites for this game, but as the saying goes - strike while the iron's hot. You just never know what might happen Saturday.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3634 - 28/06/2018 15:57:16    2116446

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Replying To aceofspades:  "You really can't be blaming lads going to America as a reason behind Cavan's lack of success. Of the current panel our captain Dara Mcveety spent a summer stateside as did Killian Clarke and Padraig Faulkner and there may be more , did it do them lads any harm? Dick Clerkin from Monaghan played in the States for a few years in the early 2000's didn't retire from inter county football until he was 34 years of age.
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You and others have mentioned numerous players not on the county panel for whatever reasons, why not mention the lads we have, who are prepared to give their total commitment to the county, all we seem to hear is negativity towards them , yet these lads have got us back to Division 1 and we've actually won two games in a row in the qualifiers which hasn't happened since 2013.This Saturday these lads will take to the field once again to represent their county ,so why not get down to Brewster and give them the vocal support they deserve."
Any player who wears the jersey deserves support, nonetheless it is lamentable that absentee / drop out rate that we have in Cavan.

It's frustrating to watch us trying to make any progress when clearly some of our best and most experienced players are not there.

To quote the article from the Celt "How could any county be expected to achieve senior success when 63 of its best footballers, in the prime 23 to 29 age bracket, are not involved.?"

That's the situation we're dealing with, for a small county like ourselves to have 63 players with Ulster medals not playing is just beyond woeful.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 353 - 28/06/2018 16:01:12    2116449

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Replying To aceofspades:  "You really can't be blaming lads going to America as a reason behind Cavan's lack of success. Of the current panel our captain Dara Mcveety spent a summer stateside as did Killian Clarke and Padraig Faulkner and there may be more , did it do them lads any harm? Dick Clerkin from Monaghan played in the States for a few years in the early 2000's didn't retire from inter county football until he was 34 years of age.
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You and others have mentioned numerous players not on the county panel for whatever reasons, why not mention the lads we have, who are prepared to give their total commitment to the county, all we seem to hear is negativity towards them , yet these lads have got us back to Division 1 and we've actually won two games in a row in the qualifiers which hasn't happened since 2013.This Saturday these lads will take to the field once again to represent their county ,so why not get down to Brewster and give them the vocal support they deserve."
I will be there but sadly it will be money wasted for Cavan will not get near winning. I will be there once again so I can make my own opinion on whats leading us and playing for us and how they played. As it stands I have to say sadly we have a very very weak panel even with those players red carded they would make no difference to the game. The whole panel lacks substance and the management lack ability it's that simple.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4496 - 28/06/2018 17:12:09    2116468

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If Charlie Clarke wanted to play football for Cavan, then he should have chosen a career that didn't require him to attend cattle every day. What did you want the Co Board to do, hire a farm hand to help him.
Lads are going to America and other places now to have fun as well as earn money for college. The main reason for lads turning away from County Football is because of the commitment required, they are sick to the teeth of it, there's no fun or enjoyment anymore, many have been doing it since minor level and they've become tired of the travelling, the training, 5-7 days per week, if they're not on a pitch, they're required to be in the gym, if they're not training with the County, they're expected to do their own training, and for what, pride of wearing a football jersey. We cant compete with the financial muscle of Dublin and the bigger Counties. Most if not all of the Dublin Panel all live and work in Dublin, its where all the jobs are so there's no travel, its where the GAA HQ, its where the big sponsors are based, whereas, the majority of Cavan lads are living and working outside Cavan, the study hard, they do exams, but most of the jobs of their chosen careers are outside Cavan, so theyre stuck in cars week in, week out, travelling to training, getting home late at night, up for work the next morning.

As I said, many of these lads are doing it since Minor level, people ask wheres the 63 players who won underage medals, well, maybe they've had enough of it all. Take a look at all our development squads, the u17s, the u20s, they've all been training since early in the year, sometimes 3-4 times per year.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 440 - 28/06/2018 17:13:17    2116470

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "If Charlie Clarke wanted to play football for Cavan, then he should have chosen a career that didn't require him to attend cattle every day. What did you want the Co Board to do, hire a farm hand to help him.
Lads are going to America and other places now to have fun as well as earn money for college. The main reason for lads turning away from County Football is because of the commitment required, they are sick to the teeth of it, there's no fun or enjoyment anymore, many have been doing it since minor level and they've become tired of the travelling, the training, 5-7 days per week, if they're not on a pitch, they're required to be in the gym, if they're not training with the County, they're expected to do their own training, and for what, pride of wearing a football jersey. We cant compete with the financial muscle of Dublin and the bigger Counties. Most if not all of the Dublin Panel all live and work in Dublin, its where all the jobs are so there's no travel, its where the GAA HQ, its where the big sponsors are based, whereas, the majority of Cavan lads are living and working outside Cavan, the study hard, they do exams, but most of the jobs of their chosen careers are outside Cavan, so theyre stuck in cars week in, week out, travelling to training, getting home late at night, up for work the next morning.

As I said, many of these lads are doing it since Minor level, people ask wheres the 63 players who won underage medals, well, maybe they've had enough of it all. Take a look at all our development squads, the u17s, the u20s, they've all been training since early in the year, sometimes 3-4 times per year."
You make it sound like hell on earth. Which it simply isn't.

Also, it is no different for any other county outside of Dublin. Galway, Kerry and Donegal and Mayo players would spend far more time travelling than our lads, and they're all able to produce top teams.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 353 - 28/06/2018 17:31:19    2116476

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Replying To aceofspades:  "Can't actually see how Tyrone would be that poor seeing as they won back to back Ulster's in 2016/17 reached the All Ireland semi's last year and beat Kildare, Donegal, Mayo and Kerry in this years league , they may be just have being going through a bad patch. I'd say their team from 2011-2015 has being their poorest team in the last 15 years. Seem to recall you stating that Donegal were a poor team also before we played them in the Championship and now they're Ulster champions. If Cavan can beat Tyrone on Saturday it will be a job well done not because Tyrone are a poor team."
Regardless of what Tyrone won in 2016/17 they not playing well this year. A blind man can see that

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 28/06/2018 17:38:41    2116481

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "If Charlie Clarke wanted to play football for Cavan, then he should have chosen a career that didn't require him to attend cattle every day. What did you want the Co Board to do, hire a farm hand to help him.
Lads are going to America and other places now to have fun as well as earn money for college. The main reason for lads turning away from County Football is because of the commitment required, they are sick to the teeth of it, there's no fun or enjoyment anymore, many have been doing it since minor level and they've become tired of the travelling, the training, 5-7 days per week, if they're not on a pitch, they're required to be in the gym, if they're not training with the County, they're expected to do their own training, and for what, pride of wearing a football jersey. We cant compete with the financial muscle of Dublin and the bigger Counties. Most if not all of the Dublin Panel all live and work in Dublin, its where all the jobs are so there's no travel, its where the GAA HQ, its where the big sponsors are based, whereas, the majority of Cavan lads are living and working outside Cavan, the study hard, they do exams, but most of the jobs of their chosen careers are outside Cavan, so theyre stuck in cars week in, week out, travelling to training, getting home late at night, up for work the next morning.

As I said, many of these lads are doing it since Minor level, people ask wheres the 63 players who won underage medals, well, maybe they've had enough of it all. Take a look at all our development squads, the u17s, the u20s, they've all been training since early in the year, sometimes 3-4 times per year."
cavanblueman your reply epitomises the ignorance of so many when it comes to why.
Charlie Clarke wanted to play for Cavan there was no question about that but because of his career certain elements within the training set up made it impossible for him for example coming in at 6 am for a training session he had to milk his cattle things like this could have been excluded from his itinerary for training. Cavan needed this lad we lost him. He was all ready paying from his own pocket people to cover for him while he went to play matches. Could the county Board have helped here I am sure they could have for sure. Anyway he is too old now but I am sure we have players now in the same boat I believe Barry Reilly is a Dairy Farmer I may be wrong??

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4496 - 28/06/2018 17:39:33    2116482

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What we need to be competitive:

A new manager.....current man isnt up to the job IMO.

A backroom team....for me, the one there last year, were a lot better than whats there now.....we need to know why they left, Ive heard enough rumours, but this needs to be done

The best players in the county available: The likes of Argue, Keating (although Im not his biggest fan, others rate him, so I will include him), Givney, McEnroe, Hessin, the 2 Hayes lads, Reilly and Dillon from Kingscourt......thats off the top of my head....they may not be world beaters but they would definitely leave the squad a lot stronger

As Fitzpatrick said in The Celt, and in podcasts, the guys that are not on the panel need to be asked why they are not there and what it would take to get them back.....Monaghan have to be doing something right to keep all those players.

Re Sat....Tyrone will IMO beat us easily, and cover the handicap of 4/5 points

Cavan-Hero (Cavan) - Posts: 27 - 28/06/2018 17:50:55    2116487

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