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Replying To carlowman: "I will tell you what Carps-
Why don't you go for county chairman and actually get things changed !
You seem to have all the answers!" I will be 70 next year. I think you might be better off looking for younger people to drive change in the County Board.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 732 - 21/11/2024 16:54:24
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Replying To Viking66: "So you do have hurling throughout the year?" It can hardly be considered "hurling through the year" when teams dip in and out of the competition, it's essentially fulfilling fixtures, all this talk of football clubs will ruin the hurling, as far as I'm aware the football clubs are the ones who keep voting for the split season, football players all head off on holidays/J1s for June and July, come back in August play their 5 weeks of football and season over. Hurlers putting hurls down for 7 months before they pick them back up. How anyone can say this is going to develop both codes is completely beyond me.
CRTW (Carlow) - Posts: 19 - 21/11/2024 17:01:45
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Replying To Unusedsub: "Been reading the comments on the split season with interest. My playing days are long gone but would be interesting to know what the dual player thinks, whether they approve or not. I agree that the regional competition is a great idea. The games seemed entertaining and should benefit all involved. Getting it up and running for hurling too in the near future would also benefit the game greatly." My club is one of the few dual clubs in Carlow. I canvassed opinion this week. Some of the lads like it, some don't.
However, the reality is that we have gone backwards in both codes - at adult level - since it started. So make of that what you will.
In fact, with the exception of St Mullins football (which imploded this year), have any of the dual clubs improved in the past few years?
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 732 - 21/11/2024 17:03:22
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Replying To Viking66: "So you do have hurling throughout the year?" Yes and a lot of clubs play in the lower ranks of the Kilkenny leagues but these competitions don't overly clash with football a whole pile either. Many of the senior hurling clubs don't put any emphasis on the football league.
benchtoaster (Carlow) - Posts: 38 - 21/11/2024 18:26:36
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Replying To CARPS: "My club is one of the few dual clubs in Carlow. I canvassed opinion this week. Some of the lads like it, some don't.
However, the reality is that we have gone backwards in both codes - at adult level - since it started. So make of that what you will.
In fact, with the exception of St Mullins football (which imploded this year), have any of the dual clubs improved in the past few years?" The beauty, or not, of the parish, and then county, rule is that you cam only pick from the players you have. If you are from a smaller county you will be less likely to produce top players all the time. Both our Senior Football teams currently don't have players as good as we had 10 or 15 years ago.
Your Senior hurlers were probably more competitive this year than any year I can remember. You drew with Kilkenny FFS. And you weren't hammered by Galway and were unlucky against Dublin.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13880 - 22/11/2024 07:19:47
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Replying To benchtoaster: "Yes and a lot of clubs play in the lower ranks of the Kilkenny leagues but these competitions don't overly clash with football a whole pile either. Many of the senior hurling clubs don't put any emphasis on the football league." Do you have promotion and relegation on the leagues ? We have here and it puts pressure on clubs that might be over represented with players on Senior and U20 county panels, which it might need to be practically the second team which tries to hang onto Div 1 status in the league.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1268 - 22/11/2024 09:55:33
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Replying To Freethinker: "Do you have promotion and relegation on the leagues ? We have here and it puts pressure on clubs that might be over represented with players on Senior and U20 county panels, which it might need to be practically the second team which tries to hang onto Div 1 status in the league." Not that I'm aware of. No relegation in senior hurling either! Ye have some amount of games up there to get through in a year. It's madness with small panels
benchtoaster (Carlow) - Posts: 38 - 22/11/2024 10:25:00
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Replying To Freethinker: "Do you have promotion and relegation on the leagues ? We have here and it puts pressure on clubs that might be over represented with players on Senior and U20 county panels, which it might need to be practically the second team which tries to hang onto Div 1 status in the league." We have no promotion or relegation - which I think is a bad thing.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 732 - 22/11/2024 10:32:11
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https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/cahair-okane-slaughtneils-adoption-of-the-less-is-loughmore-approach-paying-dividends-GWJWH5WM65GWNFRVQE72SX4A2I/?fbclid=IwY2xjawGsnktleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHRH-1GF6alDAZWT5ylBK5w0YSGIAf0r0AjC37bQQjgeVHrPzLph4RdI-WA_aem_nsPw24_j6kuKtsfowixzcQ
V interesting article on the dual nature of clubs and how 2 successful clubs have managed it. Being a fully dual club is probably easier manage than some situations we have here presently. Being caught between several stools and managers can be a problem.
A few things I d like to add -
1.. Clear goals - I wouldn't fuss about our clubs progression in Leinster. We need to look within first and see what is going to develop our club standards and our county. A clubs progression in Leinster is a bonus but not a priority in my eyes.
2. Hurlers - virtually all hurlers/hurling clubs are dual. Not the same for all football clubs. While lads say the wheels came off for st Mullins this year, they won 3 championships back to back and we're not far off in the relegation final. So getting a balance of what works for the players is important. While it looks like a short hurling season (and it can be), the overall picture for some of these lads is a long year - a lot playing county hurling, then both codes at club. And this has a knock on effect on football leagues too - eg take MLR - possibly 10+ on senior hurling panel and more on u20s. So hard be full strength when these lads are in with county. Same happens with bolger cup and kk league - clubs down some lads.
3. Players - someone mentioned about chatting players and what they want. A very key question! While we all want to raise standards and have Gaa front and centre all year round, that's not always what the players want. The idea of what a gaa club is has changed in my eyes in recent times. For a lot of new players/parents we are just another club/sport. Years ago the Gaa club was the centre of everything local. Now maybe not so much. Players now maybe value different things and have different ideas. That's the world we re in! The Gaa has to be about all and not the small % at every level.
So no easy answers for Carlow! We have a lot of positives in our county and a lot to be proud of : we truly are a dual county and with our numbers it is hard to be "successful" in either. The reality around numbers and finances are what they are and we have to be realistic. Enjoy the good days and keep positive - we always seem to look at the glass half full.
old yellar (None) - Posts: 2627 - 22/11/2024 11:12:52
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Replying To Viking66: "The beauty, or not, of the parish, and then county, rule is that you cam only pick from the players you have. If you are from a smaller county you will be less likely to produce top players all the time. Both our Senior Football teams currently don't have players as good as we had 10 or 15 years ago.
Your Senior hurlers were probably more competitive this year than any year I can remember. You drew with Kilkenny FFS. And you weren't hammered by Galway and were unlucky against Dublin." I mean my club has! Not the county teams.
The split season isn't as damaging for county players, as for club men.
You could even argue that the longer off season is beneficial for them.
Can finally get some rest.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 732 - 22/11/2024 11:52:08
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Replying To CARPS: "I mean my club has! Not the county teams.
The split season isn't as damaging for county players, as for club men.
You could even argue that the longer off season is beneficial for them.
Can finally get some rest." Not sure which club you are from, and therefore how many of your top teams play both codes, but I just don't believe that their hurling and football would be better if they were jumping backwards and forwards between the codes. I know from watching our lads, and they all played first team football and hurling, that it badly affected them, especially their hurling.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13880 - 22/11/2024 13:32:04
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Replying To Viking66: "Not sure which club you are from, and therefore how many of your top teams play both codes, but I just don't believe that their hurling and football would be better if they were jumping backwards and forwards between the codes. I know from watching our lads, and they all played first team football and hurling, that it badly affected them, especially their hurling." Well, if I went into any more detail it would defeat the point of an anonymous forum.
The fact is Carlow has three genuine official dual clubs and one de facto dual club, which uses two different names.
I don't think any.of the four (or five if you prefer) have improved (collectively in both codes) since the split season started.
You could argue Fenagh have gotten better - but that's on the back of strong underage, not because they don't have to share with Ballinkillen.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 732 - 22/11/2024 14:45:36
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Replying To old yellar: "https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/cahair-okane-slaughtneils-adoption-of-the-less-is-loughmore-approach-paying-dividends-GWJWH5WM65GWNFRVQE72SX4A2I/?fbclid=IwY2xjawGsnktleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHRH-1GF6alDAZWT5ylBK5w0YSGIAf0r0AjC37bQQjgeVHrPzLph4RdI-WA_aem_nsPw24_j6kuKtsfowixzcQ
V interesting article on the dual nature of clubs and how 2 successful clubs have managed it. Being a fully dual club is probably easier manage than some situations we have here presently. Being caught between several stools and managers can be a problem.
A few things I d like to add -
1.. Clear goals - I wouldn't fuss about our clubs progression in Leinster. We need to look within first and see what is going to develop our club standards and our county. A clubs progression in Leinster is a bonus but not a priority in my eyes.
2. Hurlers - virtually all hurlers/hurling clubs are dual. Not the same for all football clubs. While lads say the wheels came off for st Mullins this year, they won 3 championships back to back and we're not far off in the relegation final. So getting a balance of what works for the players is important. While it looks like a short hurling season (and it can be), the overall picture for some of these lads is a long year - a lot playing county hurling, then both codes at club. And this has a knock on effect on football leagues too - eg take MLR - possibly 10+ on senior hurling panel and more on u20s. So hard be full strength when these lads are in with county. Same happens with bolger cup and kk league - clubs down some lads.
3. Players - someone mentioned about chatting players and what they want. A very key question! While we all want to raise standards and have Gaa front and centre all year round, that's not always what the players want. The idea of what a gaa club is has changed in my eyes in recent times. For a lot of new players/parents we are just another club/sport. Years ago the Gaa club was the centre of everything local. Now maybe not so much. Players now maybe value different things and have different ideas. That's the world we re in! The Gaa has to be about all and not the small % at every level.
So no easy answers for Carlow! We have a lot of positives in our county and a lot to be proud of : we truly are a dual county and with our numbers it is hard to be "successful" in either. The reality around numbers and finances are what they are and we have to be realistic. Enjoy the good days and keep positive - we always seem to look at the glass half full." Hello Yellar, great article.
Every club in Carlow should have it posted to the walls of their committee rooms and dressing rooms.
Will address your points
1. I disagree with this. Club success in Leinster lifts moods. Eire Og's progress in 1980 gave Carlow football a massive lift after a dreadful 1970s. That helped spawn a superb u21 team which drove standards at senior level in the mid 1980s. In the 90s too, Eire Og's success led to Carlow winning the All-Ireland B and having a competitive county team for a few years. MLR did the same in hurling. Their breakthrough fueled a stronger and more successful county team - and inspired St Mullins to try hit the same standards.
2. This is not true. Carlow Town, Naomh Brid, Burrin Rangers are not dual clubs. And that's their problem, in my view. St Mullins don't play underage football. You have four de facto dual senior clubs, yes. Agree with you about MLR. I do laugh at people knocking them for not taking the football leagues seriously. Come on, lads, get real?
3. Agree with you on that. But I think you mean half empty at the end?
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 732 - 22/11/2024 15:08:24
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https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/gaelic-football/cahair-okane-slaughtneils-adoption-of-the-less-is-loughmore-approach-paying-dividends-GWJWH5WM65GWNFRVQE72SX4A2I/?fbclid=IwY2xjawGsnktleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHRH-1GF6alDAZWT5ylBK5w0YSGIAf0r0AjC37bQQjgeVHrPzLph4RdI-WA_aem_nsPw24_j6kuKtsfowixzcQ
V interesting article on the dual nature of clubs and how 2 successful clubs have managed it. Being a fully dual club is probably easier manage than some situations we have here presently. Being caught between several stools and managers can be a problem.
A few things I d like to add -
1.. Clear goals - I wouldn't fuss about our clubs progression in Leinster. We need to look within first and see what is going to develop our club standards and our county. A clubs progression in Leinster is a bonus but not a priority in my eyes.
2. Hurlers - virtually all hurlers/hurling clubs are dual. Not the same for all football clubs. While lads say the wheels came off for st Mullins this year, they won 3 championships back to back and we're not far off in the relegation final. So getting a balance of what works for the players is important. While it looks like a short hurling season (and it can be), the overall picture for some of these lads is a long year - a lot playing county hurling, then both codes at club. And this has a knock on effect on football leagues too - eg take MLR - possibly 10+ on senior hurling panel and more on u20s. So hard be full strength when these lads are in with county. Same happens with bolger cup and kk league - clubs down some lads.
3. Players - someone mentioned about chatting players and what they want. A very key question! While we all want to raise standards and have Gaa front and centre all year round, that's not always what the players want. The idea of what a gaa club is has changed in my eyes in recent times. For a lot of new players/parents we are just another club/sport. Years ago the Gaa club was the centre of everything local. Now maybe not so much. Players now maybe value different things and have different ideas. That's the world we re in! The Gaa has to be about all and not the small % at every level.
So no easy answers for Carlow! We have a lot of positives in our county and a lot to be proud of : we truly are a dual county and with our numbers it is hard to be "successful" in either. The reality around numbers and finances are what they are and we have to be realistic. Enjoy the good days and keep positive - we always seem to look at the glass half full.
old yellar (None) - Posts: 2627 - 22/11/2024 15:14:23
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Replying To CARPS: "Well, if I went into any more detail it would defeat the point of an anonymous forum.
The fact is Carlow has three genuine official dual clubs and one de facto dual club, which uses two different names.
I don't think any.of the four (or five if you prefer) have improved (collectively in both codes) since the split season started.
You could argue Fenagh have gotten better - but that's on the back of strong underage, not because they don't have to share with Ballinkillen." I'm not sure you can see if they have improved unless you take into account who has gone travelling, how good management were, how many dual players the 1st teams have, etc etc. There are lots more variables than just the split season.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13880 - 22/11/2024 15:20:13
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Replying To Viking66: "I'm not sure you can see if they have improved unless you take into account who has gone travelling, how good management were, how many dual players the 1st teams have, etc etc. There are lots more variables than just the split season." The phrase "gone traveling" amuses me. We called it "emigration" in my day.
I remember being out in Asia in the 1980s and meeting a bunch of Brits who called themselves "expats."
One supposes they were too full of themselves to call themselves mere "immigrants."
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 732 - 22/11/2024 19:23:02
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Replying To CARPS: "The phrase "gone traveling" amuses me. We called it "emigration" in my day.
I remember being out in Asia in the 1980s and meeting a bunch of Brits who called themselves "expats."
One supposes they were too full of themselves to call themselves mere "immigrants."" :-D
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13880 - 22/11/2024 23:32:38
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I think the only way a split season works is with a later start to the season. Football league started in February this year and ran until may. It would make a lot more sense to start this closer to the end of March have larger divisions to give more games and run this to the end of June. That would halve the gap to championship and still gives that window for the hurling championship.
I still think its not ideal but if this split season is going to be set in stone then it's important we don't have these mad gaps. Hurling will still be forgotten by the end of August I do think that's a mistake although I do take into account that lads in with the county will have had a long year at that stage, but I'd qualify that by saying club should be priority. Carlow will never be successful at inter county at either code, so our club game has to be the number 1 priority not an after thought. A successful club scene will lift the county not the other way around. I agree with carps that we should be aiming to do well in club competitions but disagree that having less teams per grade is the way to go
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1662 - 23/11/2024 11:51:14
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