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Sadly the hoganstand is turning into an obituary column every day young and older are being bereaved we should pause and say a prayer for them may they Rest In Peace

fishpond (Galway) - Posts: 89 - 10/08/2022 14:04:44    2436957

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Replying To Gaillimher:  "To win this years All Ireland has been a fantastic achievement by Jack O Connor, but Kerry had been knocking on the door over the past three years and only difference this year is they had that 'bit of luck' - everything fell into place for them - Tyrone gone early, Dublin without Con O'Callaghan in the semi-final and then meeting a young inexperienced team in the final. Jack knew that Kerry were ready this year - which is why he left Kildare in the way he did and then convinced the Kerry County Board to replace Peter Keane with himself. Jack is an opportunist. Where was Jack 3-4 years when no one wanted the job - fair play to Peter Keane/Maurice Fitzgerald etc, at least they took on the challenge when no one else was putting themselves forward, dealt with a pandemic that disrupted everyones plans and was only missing that piece of luck needed to win an All-Ireland. Jack being treated as some sort of 'messiah' is laughable in my opinion - have a look at his record with the Kerry U21's and the players from previous years minor teams that were available to him at the time."
Peter Keane's Kerry was knocked out of the championship by truly dreadful Cork team. Last year they conceded three goals to Tyrone whereby they just walked through the middle of their defence, compare that to this year with just one goal conceded all championship.

Tyrone always go early the year after they win the All-Ireland. Dublin lost at the semi final stage last year also and Con O'Callaghan played the whole game. Galway in their previous championship game against Kerry a (Fitzgerald managed one) in Croke Park and won by a bit to spare.

Jack O'Connors CV speaks for itself there is few teams including Dublin that didn't have a bit of luck along the way however the key reason why Kerry won this years All-Ireland was a more organised defence and getting the required impact off their bench.

Yondu (UK) - Posts: 845 - 10/08/2022 15:51:46    2436971

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Replying To 1951andwaiting:  "100% correct minor77, If C/G want to be a success at senior they would be better off coaching football lads who join their club, than having hurling lads playing football. Once they hit 16/18 the hurlers will concentrate on hurling with turlough, Cashel and Canmore and that's the reality and that's fine too.

How many young lads whose first love was football, 8-14-year-olds weren't given a proper opportunity to develop ? Looks like short-term gain by winning underage trophies, when the emphasis should be on developing players for your adult teams, in particular, senior"
As far as I am aware any child in between 8 and 14 don't know what their favourite sport is or which one they will pick and in fact it has been proven that the more different sports that they play at that age the better for them.No child should be made decide at that age.To say Claregalway don't give kids a chance to develope at that age is misleading.They have a few teams at all age groups and all get to play games at their own level.Underage success isn't the be all and end all but it certainly helps to keep young people at a club as as the saying goes success breeds success.

Alwaysencourage (Galway) - Posts: 218 - 10/08/2022 16:35:53    2436984

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Replying To Gaillimher:  "To win this years All Ireland has been a fantastic achievement by Jack O Connor, but Kerry had been knocking on the door over the past three years and only difference this year is they had that 'bit of luck' - everything fell into place for them - Tyrone gone early, Dublin without Con O'Callaghan in the semi-final and then meeting a young inexperienced team in the final. Jack knew that Kerry were ready this year - which is why he left Kildare in the way he did and then convinced the Kerry County Board to replace Peter Keane with himself. Jack is an opportunist. Where was Jack 3-4 years when no one wanted the job - fair play to Peter Keane/Maurice Fitzgerald etc, at least they took on the challenge when no one else was putting themselves forward, dealt with a pandemic that disrupted everyones plans and was only missing that piece of luck needed to win an All-Ireland. Jack being treated as some sort of 'messiah' is laughable in my opinion - have a look at his record with the Kerry U21's and the players from previous years minor teams that were available to him at the time."
I waited weeks to hear a mention of Peter Keane. Not a word from any of the Kerry Group but only on this forum. They soon forgot that he was the the man who nurtured most of the current group through the minors. Foley, a year older, settled into the full-back, Gavin White, a year older settled, into the half-back position, Graham O'Sullivan, a year older, settled into the corner-back slot, a more mature David Clifford, Diarmuid O'Connor also more mature. Keane had the players already in place. After watching hurling and football games for close to seventy years I must ask if any other manager would have not switched another back on to Shane Walsh in an attempt to curtail his ouput, a switch with Graham O'Sullivan, Paul Murphy perhaps. If Galway had won I'm sure the question would have been asked.
I feel Keane was treated like Bonnar in Tipperary.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 749 - 10/08/2022 17:27:50    2436998

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Replying To Gaillimher:  "To win this years All Ireland has been a fantastic achievement by Jack O Connor, but Kerry had been knocking on the door over the past three years and only difference this year is they had that 'bit of luck' - everything fell into place for them - Tyrone gone early, Dublin without Con O'Callaghan in the semi-final and then meeting a young inexperienced team in the final. Jack knew that Kerry were ready this year - which is why he left Kildare in the way he did and then convinced the Kerry County Board to replace Peter Keane with himself. Jack is an opportunist. Where was Jack 3-4 years when no one wanted the job - fair play to Peter Keane/Maurice Fitzgerald etc, at least they took on the challenge when no one else was putting themselves forward, dealt with a pandemic that disrupted everyones plans and was only missing that piece of luck needed to win an All-Ireland. Jack being treated as some sort of 'messiah' is laughable in my opinion - have a look at his record with the Kerry U21's and the players from previous years minor teams that were available to him at the time."
Jack didn't know Kerry were ready this year. How was he to know how the season was going to pan out? He knew he'd have to be better prepared than previous managers before he legged it out of Kildare. He knew he had to learn from previous Kerry team's mistakes and, as Yondu says, had to make them more defesively solid. So he got Paddy Tally in, knowing he couldn't do it without help. No thoughts as to what some Kerry supporters might think this isn't the traditional Kerry way. Winning Sam Maguire is the only tradition that counts for them. No evidence at all for this but I think under Keane's time as minor and senior manager there was a bit of an air of complacency from the Kerry team. They thought that they could beat everyone without putting in the hard work. This year was a culture chance, no complacency, competition for places, improved in defence. I was at the semi final, thought Kerry made hard work of a not great Dublin team in the second half. Gave Galway a great chance in the final based on that performance and wondered had Kerry peaked early again. Not a bit of it, they were physically and mentally strong in the final. Used their bench wisely, a bench is only good if there's a culture of competition places. Congratulations to them. I think Keane is a good manager but wasn't unlucky, he brought them as far as he could. Jack O'Connor had a fair idea of what needed to be done. Hardly a messiah now but deserves every credit.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7343 - 10/08/2022 19:36:38    2437016

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Replying To Gaillimher:  "To win this years All Ireland has been a fantastic achievement by Jack O Connor, but Kerry had been knocking on the door over the past three years and only difference this year is they had that 'bit of luck' - everything fell into place for them - Tyrone gone early, Dublin without Con O'Callaghan in the semi-final and then meeting a young inexperienced team in the final. Jack knew that Kerry were ready this year - which is why he left Kildare in the way he did and then convinced the Kerry County Board to replace Peter Keane with himself. Jack is an opportunist. Where was Jack 3-4 years when no one wanted the job - fair play to Peter Keane/Maurice Fitzgerald etc, at least they took on the challenge when no one else was putting themselves forward, dealt with a pandemic that disrupted everyones plans and was only missing that piece of luck needed to win an All-Ireland. Jack being treated as some sort of 'messiah' is laughable in my opinion - have a look at his record with the Kerry U21's and the players from previous years minor teams that were available to him at the time."
Jack did nt win all ireland with the under 21s recently but tbf he was denied the likes of David Clifford and Seanie Ó Shea who were not allowed play as they had played senior. Jack has managed Kerry to all Irelands at senior under 21 and minor. He has also managed his school to All Ireland success. Everyone of his senior all ireland wins were doubles with the league wins. His record is up there with the best but everyone entitled to their own opinion.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 10/08/2022 20:46:14    2437018

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Jack didn't know Kerry were ready this year. How was he to know how the season was going to pan out? He knew he'd have to be better prepared than previous managers before he legged it out of Kildare. He knew he had to learn from previous Kerry team's mistakes and, as Yondu says, had to make them more defesively solid. So he got Paddy Tally in, knowing he couldn't do it without help. No thoughts as to what some Kerry supporters might think this isn't the traditional Kerry way. Winning Sam Maguire is the only tradition that counts for them. No evidence at all for this but I think under Keane's time as minor and senior manager there was a bit of an air of complacency from the Kerry team. They thought that they could beat everyone without putting in the hard work. This year was a culture chance, no complacency, competition for places, improved in defence. I was at the semi final, thought Kerry made hard work of a not great Dublin team in the second half. Gave Galway a great chance in the final based on that performance and wondered had Kerry peaked early again. Not a bit of it, they were physically and mentally strong in the final. Used their bench wisely, a bench is only good if there's a culture of competition places. Congratulations to them. I think Keane is a good manager but wasn't unlucky, he brought them as far as he could. Jack O'Connor had a fair idea of what needed to be done. Hardly a messiah now but deserves every credit."
Since 2000 Kerry's all Ireland victories have been against Mayo, Galway. Cork and Donegal. They failed against Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin. Mayo, Galway and Cork always have a soft centre. Donegal are similar but Dublin Tyrone and Armagh stand up to Kerry and get stuck in. They all make Kerry feel uncomfortable and dont care about their record or reputation. When Tyrone were in their pomp they beat a far better Kerry team than the present one. But to be fair Kerry went out and beat what was in front of them and that's all they can do.

crafty (Galway) - Posts: 249 - 11/08/2022 11:47:10    2437049

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Replying To crafty:  "Since 2000 Kerry's all Ireland victories have been against Mayo, Galway. Cork and Donegal. They failed against Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin. Mayo, Galway and Cork always have a soft centre. Donegal are similar but Dublin Tyrone and Armagh stand up to Kerry and get stuck in. They all make Kerry feel uncomfortable and dont care about their record or reputation. When Tyrone were in their pomp they beat a far better Kerry team than the present one. But to be fair Kerry went out and beat what was in front of them and that's all they can do."
True but its easy make an argument for every fact.You mention Cork. Well for six years in the championship Kerry were the only team that could beat them .Donegal Tyrone Galway Dublin Down Meath could nt beat them so where was the soft centre.Kerry lost to a great Tyrone side and Armagh were a great team too.As for Dublin well they did nt turn out to be a bad team either.Its not Kerry s fault they onl;y beat Galway Mayo and Cork and Donegal and besides Mayo who gave Dublin loads of it Galway Donegal and Cork all won all Ireland s in that era.People are always quick to knock down achievements.Dublin won because they play at home and Kerry won because they play handy teams .Sometimes believe it or not teams win because they have very good players.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 11/08/2022 13:47:22    2437067

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Replying To crafty:  "Since 2000 Kerry's all Ireland victories have been against Mayo, Galway. Cork and Donegal. They failed against Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin. Mayo, Galway and Cork always have a soft centre. Donegal are similar but Dublin Tyrone and Armagh stand up to Kerry and get stuck in. They all make Kerry feel uncomfortable and dont care about their record or reputation. When Tyrone were in their pomp they beat a far better Kerry team than the present one. But to be fair Kerry went out and beat what was in front of them and that's all they can do."
I wouldn't be putting Armagh 2002 on any pedestal, over Donegal '12-'14, or indeed Cork 2010, just because of performances v Kerry. These teams all won one title, and it's off the mark imo to claim that two of them had 'soft centres' and a third one didn't. Micheal Francis Russell made a burst for the motm award after HT in the 2002 final. That had a bigger impact on the end result imo, than Armagh's 'hard centre'.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3419 - 11/08/2022 14:32:28    2437076

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Replying To crafty:  "Since 2000 Kerry's all Ireland victories have been against Mayo, Galway. Cork and Donegal. They failed against Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin. Mayo, Galway and Cork always have a soft centre. Donegal are similar but Dublin Tyrone and Armagh stand up to Kerry and get stuck in. They all make Kerry feel uncomfortable and dont care about their record or reputation. When Tyrone were in their pomp they beat a far better Kerry team than the present one. But to be fair Kerry went out and beat what was in front of them and that's all they can do."
You compare the Tyrone forward line 2003-2008 to the pick of Mayo's forwards 2011-2021, and you should quickly get the notion that there was more than 'soft centres' at issue, when 'evaluating' those sides.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3419 - 11/08/2022 14:42:09    2437079

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Replying To crafty:  "Since 2000 Kerry's all Ireland victories have been against Mayo, Galway. Cork and Donegal. They failed against Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin. Mayo, Galway and Cork always have a soft centre. Donegal are similar but Dublin Tyrone and Armagh stand up to Kerry and get stuck in. They all make Kerry feel uncomfortable and dont care about their record or reputation. When Tyrone were in their pomp they beat a far better Kerry team than the present one. But to be fair Kerry went out and beat what was in front of them and that's all they can do."
Since 2000 Kerry have beaten each of the teams you mention in your post in championship football. Yes Tyrone, Dublin and Armagh beat Kerry in All Ireland finals since 2000. Those Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin teams were the greatest teams each of those counties have ever had. Since they lost to Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin in All Ireland finals Kerry have beaten each of those counties in championship football. Kerry quite simply are the greatest football county in Ireland. They are the one constant in Gaelic football. Other counties will come and go with great teams. Kerry are always there and always will be.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 11/08/2022 15:21:20    2437088

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "You compare the Tyrone forward line 2003-2008 to the pick of Mayo's forwards 2011-2021, and you should quickly get the notion that there was more than 'soft centres' at issue, when 'evaluating' those sides."
Agree with that. Don't think the Mayo team of the last decade could be described as "soft". If we had ONE extra forward like a Peter Canavan or Padraig Joyce we would have bagged at least one All Ireland and possibly two in my opinion…

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 11/08/2022 17:08:22    2437092

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "You compare the Tyrone forward line 2003-2008 to the pick of Mayo's forwards 2011-2021, and you should quickly get the notion that there was more than 'soft centres' at issue, when 'evaluating' those sides."
Mayo have had no good forwards since the retirement of the 1951 lads. Hard to believe but its 70 plus years since Mayo produced a quality forward line.

PancakeWard (Galway) - Posts: 86 - 11/08/2022 17:45:55    2437094

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Replying To crafty:  "Since 2000 Kerry's all Ireland victories have been against Mayo, Galway. Cork and Donegal. They failed against Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin. Mayo, Galway and Cork always have a soft centre. Donegal are similar but Dublin Tyrone and Armagh stand up to Kerry and get stuck in. They all make Kerry feel uncomfortable and dont care about their record or reputation. When Tyrone were in their pomp they beat a far better Kerry team than the present one. But to be fair Kerry went out and beat what was in front of them and that's all they can do."
Very general generalizations and lazy, slip-shod analysis. Go back to the drawing board, and that's from a man who wouldn't give Kerry an inch, if I could. However, sometimes Kerry just take those inches and have to be applauded and respected for what they contribute to Gaelic football.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1909 - 11/08/2022 18:12:01    2437097

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Replying To crafty:  "Since 2000 Kerry's all Ireland victories have been against Mayo, Galway. Cork and Donegal. They failed against Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin. Mayo, Galway and Cork always have a soft centre. Donegal are similar but Dublin Tyrone and Armagh stand up to Kerry and get stuck in. They all make Kerry feel uncomfortable and dont care about their record or reputation. When Tyrone were in their pomp they beat a far better Kerry team than the present one. But to be fair Kerry went out and beat what was in front of them and that's all they can do."
Not sure Armagh beating Kerry once over 20 years ago albeit in a final is a sign that they always stand up to Kerry and get stuck in. By that logic Galway have beaten Kerry in a fair few All-Ireland finals and semi-finals going further back. Ultimately it has little relevance to today.

Marooned (Galway) - Posts: 2214 - 11/08/2022 18:49:15    2437102

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Is Peter Cooke staying in Ireland or is he expected to resume his travels after the club championship?

centrefield99 (Galway) - Posts: 99 - 12/08/2022 10:07:12    2437125

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "I wouldn't be putting Armagh 2002 on any pedestal, over Donegal '12-'14, or indeed Cork 2010, just because of performances v Kerry. These teams all won one title, and it's off the mark imo to claim that two of them had 'soft centres' and a third one didn't. Micheal Francis Russell made a burst for the motm award after HT in the 2002 final. That had a bigger impact on the end result imo, than Armagh's 'hard centre'."
Wrong. That was a serious Armagh team. They won seven Ulster titles between 1999-2008 at a time when their rivalry between 2003-2008 with a Tyrone team that won three All Ireland titles was ref hot. They were involved in immense battles some of which they won and some of which they lost. Don't forget that they lost very narrowly to Meath in 1999, Kerry after a replay and extra time in 2000 and Galway by a point in 2001. All of those teams who beat Armagh went on to win the All Ireland as did Tyrone after immense battles in 2003 and 2005 and Kerry in 2006. That was a terrific Armagh team packed full of outstanding players. The achievements of Donegal 2011-2014 or Cork 2010 don't measure up to those of that Armagh team.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 12/08/2022 10:25:37    2437129

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Very general generalizations and lazy, slip-shod analysis. Go back to the drawing board, and that's from a man who wouldn't give Kerry an inch, if I could. However, sometimes Kerry just take those inches and have to be applauded and respected for what they contribute to Gaelic football."
Very well said.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 12/08/2022 10:26:07    2437130

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Since 2000 Kerry have beaten each of the teams you mention in your post in championship football. Yes Tyrone, Dublin and Armagh beat Kerry in All Ireland finals since 2000. Those Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin teams were the greatest teams each of those counties have ever had. Since they lost to Tyrone, Armagh and Dublin in All Ireland finals Kerry have beaten each of those counties in championship football. Kerry quite simply are the greatest football county in Ireland. They are the one constant in Gaelic football. Other counties will come and go with great teams. Kerry are always there and always will be."
Kerry are a great footballing county and over decades put the structures and finance in to make sure they're competitive. There is little doubt though they're a constant because of the system they benefited from, one win, if they even had a competitive Munster match some years and into an All Ireland semi final and nowadays QF.

They're always there but as we're seeing with the gap from 09 to 14 and 2014 to 2022 as well as the big 00's defeats being there doesn't mean they'll win the All Ireland. Backdoor changed things, and the new round robin system from next season will bring them that competitiveness earlier in the year.

They've great tradition but the change in system and further change has brought them closer to the pack and that will take on a new level for the next few years in my opinion. Galway were right there in the 66th minute this year, and were very unlucky with a referee call; six or seven teams can compete with Kerry with the modern day systems and they shouldn't think Kerry have the edge.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 12/08/2022 10:50:43    2437136

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It seems like counties only win a 'handy' All Ireland in hindsight and it's deemed handy by someone who bears a grudge against the winners in hindsight. Sure we still think in Mayo that we were robbed in '96. We have a great list of reasons/excuses why we lost other finals. Hard to fix problems if you don' t want to recognise there are problems to be fixed. But one of the' handiest' All Irelands ever was surely Dublin winning in 2011. Under no pressure in their home pitch, no Sam since '95, getting well beaten in the second half by Kerry. Kerry, the kings of football. A Kerry team laden down with Celtic crosses. Then McMenamin and Cuxton said enough is enough and did the job.' Handy'. Whatever happened to take your beating, congratulate the winner and learn from your mistakes?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7343 - 12/08/2022 12:25:13    2437151

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