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Time for the 'qualifiers' to go?

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Have the 'qualifiers' run their course? They first came into hurling in 1997 with the losing Munster Finalists & Leinster finalists getting a second chance with Tipperary getting to the All-Ireland final. In 2001 in both codes every team got a second chance up to the quarter final stage. When that happened, I thought they were a revelation. I was on holidays in an exotic location in June/July 2001 and met people from all over Ireland wearing their county colours, delighted to still be in the championship. My own county benefited from the system in 2002 with wins over Cavan in a replay & Offaly before losing by a solitary point to Mayo. It was quite an experience seeing Limerick play 5 times in one championship football season. As the years have rolled on, it seems as though the reason for having the qualifiers has totally diminished and now they are only of benefit to the top sides in both codes, e.g. Tipperary winning the hurling in 2010 and Kilkenny in 2012. Not looking for a debate on new formats, but wondering if the qualifiers just need to go or should they be retained? slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 26/06/2017 16:52:19 2005884 Link
Replying To slayer: "Have the 'qualifiers' run their course? They first came into hurling in 1997 with the losing Munster Finalists & Leinster finalists getting a second chance with Tipperary getting to the All-Ireland final. In 2001 in both codes every team got a second chance up to the quarter final stage. When that happened, I thought they were a revelation. I was on holidays in an exotic location in June/July 2001 and met people from all over Ireland wearing their county colours, delighted to still be in the championship. My own county benefited from the system in 2002 with wins over Cavan in a replay & Offaly before losing by a solitary point to Mayo. It was quite an experience seeing Limerick play 5 times in one championship football season. As the years have rolled on, it seems as though the reason for having the qualifiers has totally diminished and now they are only of benefit to the top sides in both codes, e.g. Tipperary winning the hurling in 2010 and Kilkenny in 2012. Not looking for a debate on new formats, but wondering if the qualifiers just need to go or should they be retained?" The back door system in football is the root cause of the huge gap between the elite and the also rans, time for it to be dismantled, hurling I think is slowly getting it's act together. supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 26/06/2017 21:17:20 2006023 Link
Replying To supersub15: "The back door system in football is the root cause of the huge gap between the elite and the also rans, time for it to be dismantled, hurling I think is slowly getting it's act together." Whole championship needs a restructure starting with splitting off the Provincial Championships before the advent of SSSM!!! opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 500 - 26/06/2017 21:21:42 2006026 Link
Replying To supersub15: "The back door system in football is the root cause of the huge gap between the elite and the also rans, time for it to be dismantled, hurling I think is slowly getting it's act together." Maybe but what's the alternative? Going back to straight knock-out is even worse for the weaker counties. Carlow would be gone a few weeks ago under the old system, but now have a great chance to at least get to the third qualifying round. That has to help develop them. Tipp wouldn't have reached an All Ireland semi final without it. It has also helped to improve the likes of Longford & Clare. Ultimately it does benefit the stronger counties in the end but counties like Limerick have no interest in a "B" championship, so it's difficult to come up with something that suits all counties. county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 26/06/2017 21:45:49 2006047 Link
Replying To county man: "Maybe but what's the alternative? Going back to straight knock-out is even worse for the weaker counties. Carlow would be gone a few weeks ago under the old system, but now have a great chance to at least get to the third qualifying round. That has to help develop them. Tipp wouldn't have reached an All Ireland semi final without it. It has also helped to improve the likes of Longford & Clare. Ultimately it does benefit the stronger counties in the end but counties like Limerick have no interest in a "B" championship, so it's difficult to come up with something that suits all counties." Agree with that County Man. It's a bit like people saying the play offs in soccer over here on the mainland are unfair because 3rd place should always trump 6th place but what's forgotten there is the amount of interest generated in all the leagues because it's still on a knife edge. MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 26/06/2017 22:03:20 2006059 Link
We need to revert to a knockout system again. Get rid of provincial championships. 16 teams for Sam Maguire. Open draw, home advantage for first out of pot. Top 2 in division 3 of league get into Sam Maguire that same year and bottom two in division 2 drop out. Take this year for example: Hey Tipperary and Louth! You're into the last 16 of the championship and you're 4 games away from winning Sam. Oh and you've both got home draws against Dublin and Kerry respectively. Go for it. HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts: 220 - 26/06/2017 22:12:01 2006065 Link
If the proposed new changes for hurling get pushed through in September, this will be the last year of the qualifiers. Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 26/06/2017 22:27:49 2006077 Link
The big problem with the qualifiers is that it makes scheduling a nightmare. At the start of the year teams won't know when they'll be playing as it'll depend on when they get knocked out of their province. Really makes scheduling club fixtures a nightmare. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 26/06/2017 23:27:31 2006104 Link
I care far more about league now than championship and I see that slowly creeping in as the future ... I'd advocate 3 divisions 11, 11, 10 more matches that are even and put all 11 div 1 teams in senior all Ireland plus top 4 div 2 and div 3 winners with b championship for the rest .... knockout only .. run provincial as stand alone job done ... I speak such sense but sure they'll never listen to me. I did love the qualifiers though but we do need a revamp now .. not least cause the powers that be run them all off in a heap giving them little respect yet they drag out the provincials.. anyway rant over ... for now ;-) KeshGFC (Fermanagh) - Posts: 334 - 27/06/2017 00:00:55 2006114 Link
Time for the 'qualifiers' to go? Have the 'qualifiers' run their course? They first came into hurling in 1997 with the losing Munster Finalists & Leinster finalists getting a second chance with Tipperary getting to the All-Ireland final. In 2001 in both codes every team got a second chance up to the quarter final stage. When that happened, I thought they were a revelation. I was on holidays in an exotic location in June/July 2001 and met people from all over Ireland wearing their county colours, delighted to still be in the championship. My own county benefited from the system in 2002 with wins over Cavan in a replay & Offaly before losing by a solitary point to Mayo. It was quite an experience seeing Limerick play 5 times in one championship football season. As the years have rolled on, it seems as though the reason for having the qualifiers has totally diminished and now they are only of benefit to the top sides in both codes, e.g. Tipperary winning the hurling in 2010 and Kilkenny in 2012. Not looking for a debate on new formats, but wondering if the qualifiers just need to go or should they be retained? slayer (Limerick) - Posts:5938 - 26/06/2017 16:52:19 It isnt time for the qualifiers to go if it meant going back to the pre 2001 system unless you changed the league and gave more games in that and played championships in between league just like what occurs in soccer with champions league/fa cup etc played in between premiership. The back door system in football is the root cause of the huge gap between the elite and the also rans, time for it to be dismantled, hurling I think is slowly getting it's act together. supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts:1625 - 26/06/2017 21:17:20if you dismantle the back door what do you replace it with? Whole championship needs a restructure starting with splitting off the Provincial Championships before the advent of SSSM!!! opa01 (Cavan) - Posts:426 - 26/06/2017 21:21:42Splitting off of provincial championships should only occur if all ireland then had a group stage or similar We need to revert to a knockout system again. Get rid of provincial championships. 16 teams for Sam Maguire. Open draw, home advantage for first out of pot. Top 2 in division 3 of league get into Sam Maguire that same year and bottom two in division 2 drop out. Take this year for example: Hey Tipperary and Louth! You're into the last 16 of the championship and you're 4 games away from winning Sam. Oh and you've both got home draws against Dublin and Kerry respectively. Go for it. HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts:95 - 26/06/2017 22:12:01That would be terrible and would only Suit Dublin and bigger counties. ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/06/2017 00:18:45 2006116 Link
The great thing with the qualifiers is it gives everyone a chance of progression. Carlow are playing football into july and the county is loving it. carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 27/06/2017 09:07:45 2006150 Link
Whole championship needs a restructure starting with splitting off the Provincial Championships before the advent of SSSM!!! opa01 (Cavan) - Posts:426 - 26/06/2017 21:21:42 Splitting off of provincial championships should only occur if all ireland then had a group stage or similar Agreed opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 500 - 27/06/2017 11:08:00 2006208 Link
It's not fair that the best teams keep winning. The worst teams should be winning. s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 27/06/2017 11:11:08 2006215 Link
Replying To carlovia: "The great thing with the qualifiers is it gives everyone a chance of progression. Carlow are playing football into july and the county is loving it." It's the first time this has happened since they introduced the back door 17 years ago, we were very lucky that we met and beat 2 div 4 teams Wexford and London, beating Wexford by 0-03 and London by 0-01, we're also very lucky that we now meet Leitrim also a div 4 team but a win is not guaranteed to either side, the question is have we to wait another 17 years for a repeat of this. supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 27/06/2017 13:53:21 2006299 Link
I don't agree with the qualifiers but what's the solution, if we have 16 teams in the race for Sam comprising of division 1 and 2 teams roughly like the hurling then the 16 teams in division 3 and 4 will complain and say that their players rather go to America for the summer rather than play in a B championship, there is complaints when ideas are shown and complain when hammered like Westmeath received last week v Dublin, the qualifiers are giving more matches to Tipperary, Clare, Cavan, etc who may feel they aren't good enough yet to win the provincial title but are getting close, it's doing nothing for Leitrim, London, Waterford, Antrim etc, there is 16 teams or more that know they will play 2 games then their season is over. Yes I agree that lower divisions should be brought together for more matches, an example would be 2 divisions comprising of 10 teams with division 3 with 12 or more teams or even the top 2 divisions with 8 teams and div 3 with 16 teams. Yes the 2nd example would be better, use div 1 and 2 teams in the race for Sam except only 2 teams qualify in the back door instead of the current 4 teams and have the other 16 or more lower teams in a league format for a 2nd tier competition where the 2 finalists are promoted to Sam grade for next year, it gives each team 15 games instead of the current 7 League games and 2 championship games meaning their season is over before July even starts. Start the games on the first weekend in April and let it run for the whole summer with the final played on All Ireland football Final day which from next year is 3 to 4 weeks earlier than the old dates riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 27/06/2017 14:16:42 2006319 Link
Provincial championships will never be go rid of because it's all about money. How do you think provincial councils survive ? The back door should be open draw. No A or B sections. Open draw where only 1 team qualifies . The winner of the open draw qualifiers then should play an alternative provincial champion each year. E.g. Qualifier winner plays Munster champs this year, Leinster champs next year and so on. So it's 1 quarter each year and then 2 semis . That would soon add a bit of interest to the qualifiers. Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 27/06/2017 14:39:49 2006334 Link
100% These 3/4 All Ireland champions that have benefited The likes of Tyrone especially For all the hype about the 00's Tyrone team they'd have only won 1 AI without the massive benefit of the back door jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 27/06/2017 15:31:09 2006364 Link
Replying To s goldrick: "It's not fair that the best teams keep winning. The worst teams should be winning." True, no matter what structure you put in place the good teams will rise to the top. However its not much use that the weaker teams are out of the championship by June, they need to be playing football well into the summer if they are to improve. If we accept that the provincial championships won't disappear then they should be ran off earlier in the year, say after the league. I personally think that the championship should be split into 2 tier after that, maybe the winner of tier 2 could re-enter the the race for Sam or have some incentive for winning it. Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1873 - 27/06/2017 15:46:41 2006371 Link
Replying To MedwayIrish: "Agree with that County Man. It's a bit like people saying the play offs in soccer over here on the mainland are unfair because 3rd place should always trump 6th place but what's forgotten there is the amount of interest generated in all the leagues because it's still on a knife edge." The mainland? Do you live on Inishturk or something? the_walls (Mayo) - Posts: 495 - 27/06/2017 15:54:54 2006377 Link
Too much money involved to scrap the back door. Re tyrone and the 00's, they had to come through a particularly tough province at the time. The 2 years they won the all ireland through the back door, Down beat them in the first round (08) and Armagh beat them in the ulster final (05). I would have no doubt that they would not have gotten found out this way in Leinster those years. Still, winning an all ireland having played 10 games using the back door has my respect as opposed to one where you play 5 through the front. Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 27/06/2017 15:55:23 2006379 Link