National Forum

McKenna Cup

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Can anyone explain to me what the rules are regarding the "best runner-up"

As far as I could make out both Armagh and Fermanagh had 2 wins which is 4 points. they also had a score-difference of +19, Armagh scored 61 points in Total while Fermanagh scored 53. Yet it is Fermanagh who progress as "best runner-up"

Perhaps I have got something wrong here. but I have taken the results from the Hogan Stand results service and totted them up.

Armagh 1-15 Armagh 2-19 Armagh 2-12
Down 2-8 Queens 0-9 Derry 3-10

Fermanagh 0-19 Fermanagh 2-13 Fermanagh 0-15
Antrim 0-5 St Mary's 0-13 Monaghan 1-13

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 19/01/2017 00:13:38    1946845

Link

Replying To s goldrick:  "Can anyone explain to me what the rules are regarding the "best runner-up"

As far as I could make out both Armagh and Fermanagh had 2 wins which is 4 points. they also had a score-difference of +19, Armagh scored 61 points in Total while Fermanagh scored 53. Yet it is Fermanagh who progress as "best runner-up"

Perhaps I have got something wrong here. but I have taken the results from the Hogan Stand results service and totted them up.

Armagh 1-15 Armagh 2-19 Armagh 2-12
Down 2-8 Queens 0-9 Derry 3-10

Fermanagh 0-19 Fermanagh 2-13 Fermanagh 0-15
Antrim 0-5 St Mary's 0-13 Monaghan 1-13"
You'd have to look at the finer detail there is usually a range of scenario's in all competitions in the event of teams finishing level in round robin. While Armagh scored more points than Fermanagh both finished level on points difference. But the deciding factors could be anything, team that conceded less, scored more points or goals, conceded more goals etc but the most likely one would be who scored more goals than the other. You'd need to see the competition rules from games committee.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 19/01/2017 08:17:15    1946853

Link

There's a table in today's Irish news but it looks like something other than points difference used. Don't quite understand myself. Both Cavan and Down won 2 matches but don't proceed.

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1550 - 19/01/2017 09:23:19    1946865

Link

Replying To s goldrick:  "Can anyone explain to me what the rules are regarding the "best runner-up"

As far as I could make out both Armagh and Fermanagh had 2 wins which is 4 points. they also had a score-difference of +19, Armagh scored 61 points in Total while Fermanagh scored 53. Yet it is Fermanagh who progress as "best runner-up"

Perhaps I have got something wrong here. but I have taken the results from the Hogan Stand results service and totted them up.

Armagh 1-15 Armagh 2-19 Armagh 2-12
Down 2-8 Queens 0-9 Derry 3-10

Fermanagh 0-19 Fermanagh 2-13 Fermanagh 0-15
Antrim 0-5 St Mary's 0-13 Monaghan 1-13"
I believe the results are taken on an average basis. Fermanagh conceded less (34 points) as opposed to Armagh (43 points).
Fermanagh had 53 scored & 34 conceded, 53/34 =1.559;
Armagh had 61 scored & 42 conceded, 61/42 = 1.452.

I don't agree with the idea myself as Armagh have been punished for playing more attacking football than Fermanagh. Then again, this is Ulster Football, where it seems that defence reigns supreme.

xxB3B0Stunnahxx (USA) - Posts: 94 - 19/01/2017 09:35:20    1946871

Link

Indeed scoring average is used in the McKenna Cup (points scored divided by points conceded) and probably nowhere else. It's a stupid system which rewards defending rather than attacking. If a team doesn't concede they presumably would have a scoring average of infinity.

M Lyster (Antrim) - Posts: 461 - 19/01/2017 17:37:26    1947081

Link

crazy stuff. so if over the 3 games you only scored 11 points and conceded 7 you would have finished best runner-up if you had won 2 games.
(won 5-3, won 5-2 and lost 2-1) . This needs to change immediately.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 20/01/2017 01:41:22    1947220

Link

Replying To s goldrick:  "crazy stuff. so if over the 3 games you only scored 11 points and conceded 7 you would have finished best runner-up if you had won 2 games.
(won 5-3, won 5-2 and lost 2-1) . This needs to change immediately."
Did Cavan lose out?

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 20/01/2017 12:22:49    1947322

Link

Replying To s goldrick:  "crazy stuff. so if over the 3 games you only scored 11 points and conceded 7 you would have finished best runner-up if you had won 2 games.
(won 5-3, won 5-2 and lost 2-1) . This needs to change immediately."
If a side only manages to score 11 points over three games I don't think you have to worry about them winning any games.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 20/01/2017 16:45:08    1947398

Link

Replying To neverright:  "Did Cavan lose out?"
we were not in the running. Armagh lost out ... unfairly in my opinion.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 20/01/2017 20:32:17    1947452

Link

Can someone explain why the final is on in newry?? By the looks of it it is Tyrone vs Derry. Omagh to newry is 1hr 20mins away. God knows how long from Derry. Nothing against Newry,great park but for a pre season comp its a silly place to hold it. I can only presume Armagh is already holding a game or clones?

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 22/01/2017 15:45:30    1947703

Link

Replying To The_Fridge:  "Can someone explain why the final is on in newry?? By the looks of it it is Tyrone vs Derry. Omagh to newry is 1hr 20mins away. God knows how long from Derry. Nothing against Newry,great park but for a pre season comp its a silly place to hold it. I can only presume Armagh is already holding a game or clones?"
As far as I know the All-Ireland Intermediate semi-final is in Armagh next Sunday

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 22/01/2017 18:24:41    1947786

Link

Replying To browncows:  "As far as I know the All-Ireland Intermediate semi-final is in Armagh next Sunday"
Cheers Browncows.
Armagh would of been logical but if there is already a match there what else can you do. Forgot clones doesn't have lights either. Newry it is.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 22/01/2017 20:31:15    1947866

Link

Replying To browncows:  "As far as I know the All-Ireland Intermediate semi-final is in Armagh next Sunday"
Double header would be ideal.

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 22/01/2017 21:18:21    1947895

Link

Replying To Dellboypolecat:  "Double header would be ideal."
Why not try Ballybofey for a change of scenery

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1056 - 22/01/2017 22:27:46    1947923

Link

The terrace on the opposite side of the stand in the athletic ground was closed for the Derry and Monaghan game, due to health and safety grounds. So they probably reckon if a decent crowd turned up for the McKenna cup final they wouldn't be able to cater for the crowd.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 22/01/2017 23:20:05    1947936

Link

Replying To shaggylegend:  "The terrace on the opposite side of the stand in the athletic ground was closed for the Derry and Monaghan game, due to health and safety grounds. So they probably reckon if a decent crowd turned up for the McKenna cup final they wouldn't be able to cater for the crowd."
Really?

Is the athletic grounds not the most recently upgraded county ground in ulster?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 23/01/2017 13:52:40    1948086

Link

Would a double header not be the best St option?

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 23/01/2017 18:58:00    1948188

Link

Would Ballybofey not be a more alternative ground for a game between Derry and Tyrone, since the Atletic grounds isn't available. Donegal borders both counties.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 23/01/2017 19:36:26    1948206

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "Really?

Is the athletic grounds not the most recently upgraded county ground in ulster?"
The health and safety issue is probably that there was not enough stewards.
As for the Mckenna Cup being part of a double header in Armagh on Sunday. The problem is that there already a double header on Sunday with the All Ireland club intermediate and junior semi finals. I assume 3 matches in 2 days is too much at this time of year.

Armaghball (Armagh) - Posts: 96 - 23/01/2017 20:04:49    1948214

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "Really?

Is the athletic grounds not the most recently upgraded county ground in ulster?"
I kid you not. I normally go to the terrace myself in Armagh to watch matches but yesterday the public announcer said it was closed for health and safety reasons.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 23/01/2017 20:11:39    1948216

Link