There is professionalism in the GAA. At management level. Nobody knows how much the elite administrators earn. Non-elected positions in some cases. I was just on gaa.ie there, and I can't find any information about the staffing of the GAA- there are short bio's of the Ard Stiurthoir and President, but that's it. Most huge companies or sporting organisations give you a page detailing the names and biographies of all top management. For example, who is on the CCCC, who make major decisions regarding the championship every summer? It is a classic case of the elected lining their own pockets and being harder to dislodge than Tony Doran under a high ball. Most counties have full time staff, who once elected are there for life. Croke Park seems to be worse. So, yes, there is professionalism in the GAA, and I don't know how, but it needs to be stamped out.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 08/04/2012 11:03:20    1145852

bananapublican
County: Leitrim
Posts: 344

1145424
I would love if the GAA would do a very patriotic thing to curb the outflow of our young people from this country. It could at least do a feasability study on having a professional league in Hurling and football. Now before the die hards get on my back, the present form of 32 counties wouldn't work, I know. But 16 regional teams would. Dublin and Cork would be fit to have 2 teams. Amalgamations would be needed with weaker counties. Hurling possibly could have an 8 team pro league.
The age old argument is it has always been amateur but everything else has moved on, why not trash this out. Unfortunately the county boards, littered with a lot of oldies won't give this the research such a subject merits.
A good professional league would also stop the mess that now is the club scene, it would give a certain season and a better structure to the year. I have 2 young sons who love the game but face the grim possibility of emigration if we don't think radically. It is hard to keep expecting them to train hard for a sport with no real prospects when if they put as much into another sport there is a chance of making a living and staying at home.


I know a business student who did one for his thesis. Interviewed people from Croke Park and the GPA and looked at the figures. Reckons it can't be done or could only be done as you have suggested, in a handful of counties, Tyrone, Kerry, Armagh, Galway, Mayo, Dublin, Kildare/Meath, Kerry, Tipperary, Cork, Killkenny, maybe Limerick and Waterford, even some of those are a bit iffy. The IRFU are only able to sustain 4 professional outfits (just about where Connacht is concerned) and the League of Ireland is a financial mess with only a few full time and a few semi-pro sides. Both of those sports have an International outlet and European competition to compete in, we have a once off series with a different code. So even 8 pro hurling teams and 16 football teams is highly ambitious.

Instead the GAA should be aiming for some sort of elite level "amateurism" where the players are more or less full time in the game and get some kind of centralized grant a la amateur boxing or athletics.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 08/04/2012 11:33:26    1145867

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 1533


How exactly are they mercenaries

Getting paid to play for another club?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 08/04/2012 11:45:31    1145869

not a hope in hell, ticket prices would go way up(they would have to make a lot more money to be able to pay manager and players a working wage), nobody would be at games as they wouldn't be able to afford it, country is too small

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 08/04/2012 12:21:05    1145889

Why are Kildare and Meath written as 'Kildare/Meath'?

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 08/04/2012 13:17:27    1145931

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 1533

But thats soccer not rugby. Rugby is different. Irish men and women supporting the province that they were born in/have lived most or all of their lives.

When I was a kid I didn't know anyone who went to a Munster match, literally no one. Nobody cared and the tradition of the rugby provinces was for a very small minority. In the late 90s, after professionalism everyone jumped on this munster bandwagon. Never did anything for me and to be honest I think it's probably becoming weaker. As for the soccer saddos, I feel sorry for lads going around with man utd and chelsea tops on, I don't like professional sports and the fact that you can buy success and where you're from no longer matters.

I love characters like declan browne from tipp and matty forde of wexford who strive all their careers for an elusive provincial medal for a so called weaker county.
If cork won an all ireland with as many strangers on the team as munster, I wouldn't even have watched the match.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 08/04/2012 13:24:20    1145940

I appreciate the debate that it could not be feasible financially. Now the ultra silly debate about transfers, if Cork have 50 players county standard, then why wouldn't a weaker team try and sign the players that Cork do not utilise. Why not? The people bringing in other sports are the people who you can never debate with. Soccer as we know it now is a poisoned game of the over paid and the status chasers. The GAA community would never stand by and allow this situation to happen. I said in my original piece, the present county structures would not work so the genius who came up with the argument about the hurlers/camogie/ ladies team go back to sleep. Unfortunately this is not meant to be sexist but only sports that could be considered for professionalism are the ones who have the gates/attendances to support it. Ie Mens football/hurling. If the ladies gates are sufficient to support such a move then why not?
Now those who argue about the amateur ethos of the GAA, here a few people within the structures who already get paid in some form:
Ard Stiurthoir, President, PR manager, and a host of others in Croke Park.
Within the counties; Coaching Officer, Physio, team analyst, Managers(apparently), doctor, bus driver, pitch maintenance, trainer, conditioning coach and there are more.
So much for the love of the game.
Now in disbanding the old format and the county structure, there will be uproar but in all honesty there are some counties that will never ever win an All Ireland, provincial titles have lost a lot of value now with the back door and there are a lot of one sided games every year. Is that the way we want our sport to keep going.

In response to the transfer king, before Seanie Johnston, we had a few high profile ones already in the GAA, Larry Tompkins, Shea Fahy, Vinny Murphy, Declan Darcy, Padraig Brogan, Brian Lacey, Karl Dwyer, Tommy Carr to name but a few. The game didn't suffer because of them.

bananapublican (Leitrim) - Posts: 878 - 08/04/2012 13:49:02    1145952

It would be the end of the GAA, but I do believe that is what the head honcho's in Croke Park want.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 08/04/2012 16:04:42    1146031

08/04/2012 11:45:31
MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 4305

1145869 ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 1533


How exactly are they mercenaries

Getting paid to play for another club?

That doesnt mean they are mercenaries. Many non irish eligible players playing in ireland move to ireland(the same can be said for irishmen going to england/france) as they are unable to get contracts elsewhere and the conditions suit them. Take Tony Buckely the irish prop he moved to Sale for big money as his wife was ill and she could get better treatment in north england.

Just because you get paid to play for another club doesnt mean you are a mercenary, would you call sean payne a mercenary??
He moved to munster, played for a few years and instead of going back to his country of birth when he retired he has stayed here working, bringing up his family here and working in managing munster. The same can be said of plenty of players over the years

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/04/2012 19:18:28    1146401

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 1539

They are mercenaries and there's nothing wrong with that either.

They'll play for whoever offers them the best deal. Simple as. It's not always to do with money either. Location has a lot to do with it as well I'd imagine.

But the likes of O'Connell, O'Drioscal etc would all move from their "home clubs" if the offer was good enough to tempt them.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 08/04/2012 19:28:27    1146419

08/04/2012 19:28:27
MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 4307

1146419 ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 1539

They are mercenaries and there's nothing wrong with that either.

They'll play for whoever offers them the best deal. Simple as. It's not always to do with money either. Location has a lot to do with it as well I'd imagine.

But the likes of O'Connell, O'Drioscal etc would all move from their "home clubs" if the offer was good enough to tempt them.

Playing for someone who offers who the best deal isnt being a mercenary.
How do you know the likes of POC, BOD would move away from munster, leinster if the deals were good enough?
Donnacha Ryan didnt move to Northampton when offered a deal that was well above the deal he had in Munster a couple of years ago and there is hundreds of examples of players not moving in circumstances similar to Don Ryans.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/04/2012 19:36:40    1146440

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 1541

Playing for someone who offers who the best deal isnt being a mercenary.
How do you know the likes of POC, BOD would move away from munster, leinster if the deals were good enough?
Donnacha Ryan didnt move to Northampton when offered a deal that was well above the deal he had in Munster a couple of years ago and there is hundreds of examples of players not moving in circumstances similar to Don Ryans.

The deal wasn't good enough to tempt him. Very simple. Remember it's not all about money.

Playing for someone who offers you the best deal is exactly what a mercenary does. (And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that even if your tone suggests that it mightn't sit to well with you)

I don't see what your issue is here. Rugby is a professional sport and in professional sport this is what happens. Players have to look out for themselves and make the most of their, relatively, short careers.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 08/04/2012 19:44:57    1146461

Playing for someone who offers the best deal is the definition of a sporting mercenary Ormo.

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 08/04/2012 19:47:55    1146468

You keep on mentioning Donncha Ryan as a man who loves Munster rugby as well.Wasnt he a Tipp hurling man until the rugby lads came knocking?

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 08/04/2012 19:49:19    1146469

Playing for someone who offers the best deal is the definition of a sporting mercenary Ormo.
theroad


Rarely do I agree with theroad, but he is spot in here.
Good man theroad. Lol

TheGateKeeper (Tyrone) - Posts: 2843 - 08/04/2012 19:54:09    1146482

Kinda nice isnt it?Dont think itll last long somehow :(

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 08/04/2012 20:00:52    1146496

08/04/2012 19:47:55
TheRoad
County: Galway
Posts: 1268

1146468 Playing for someone who offers the best deal is the definition of a sporting mercenary Ormo.

When i say best deal i dont mean just financial, theres plenty of other reasons to join a club/move from your current club than just money.
When donnacha ryan was offered a contract by Northampton they were offering him less money than Munster but they were offering him a definate first team place
08/04/2012 19:49:19
TheRoad
County: Galway
Posts: 1268

1146469 You keep on mentioning Donncha Ryan as a man who loves Munster rugby as well.Wasnt he a Tipp hurling man until the rugby lads came knocking?

He was hoping he could make the tipp minors but wasnt going to make it.
He was good at hurling but more than likely wasnt good enough to make it any higher up the levels other than maybe a year of tipp minors but one of the rugby greats in Munster, nenagh man pat whelan saw savage talent in donnacha ryan and helped him with doing well in rugby
Donnacha Ryan only started playing rugby at 16 as he wanted to help bulk up to play tipp minors.
Pat Whelan saw great skill and talent in donnacha and about 2 -3 weeks after picking up a ball for the first time pat took him down to play a munster u18 youths trial game and in that game and the weeks and months that followed Donnacha Ryan did enough to make the munster and irish youths teams with alot of help from the aforementioned pat whelan. Whelan also helped him into the Munster Academy and the rest is history

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/04/2012 20:03:28    1146504

Call it an easter ceasfire theroad. :)
Ormandbannerman, you just cant let it go can you?!
There bloody mercenaries, end of story!

TheGateKeeper (Tyrone) - Posts: 2843 - 08/04/2012 20:07:38    1146521

I didnt mention money.Moving to a club that offers the BEST DEAL (whether that invovles money,a guaranteed starting place,better living conditions etc.) is still a mercenary.

TheRoad (Galway) - Posts: 1339 - 08/04/2012 20:08:00    1146523

08/04/2012 20:07:38
TheGateKeeper
County: Tyrone
Posts: 340

1146521 Call it an easter ceasfire theroad. :)
Ormandbannerman, you just cant let it go can you?!
There bloody mercenaries, end of story!

They are not mercenaries,

08/04/2012 20:08:00
TheRoad
County: Galway
Posts: 1271

1146523 I didnt mention money.Moving to a club that offers the BEST DEAL (whether that invovles money,a guaranteed starting place,better living conditions etc.) is still a mercenary.

No its not, a pro player has to think about himself first and get the best deal he can get for himself. That isnt being a mercenary, are you a mercenary if at work when your contract is being renewed you look for the best offer you can get from ye're boss
Moving somewhere where you are guaranteed to play isnt being a mercenary. Thats being smart.
Moving somewhere where quality of life is better is being a mercenary??? Dont be stupid of course its not. Its actually very clever and se's you are looking to your future

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/04/2012 20:18:31    1146553