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Replying To essmac: "Yes, history is always written by the winners and stats always trump judgements. Some good players and a lot of superbly conditioned players and the best team spirit and work ethic in the country, obviously. In that overall sense, probably the best team ever. Modern game with its emphasis on high-return shot selection and training-ground swarm support play doesn't even need yer Gooches and yer Canavans any more either. Gone are the days of a maverick genius turning a game. It's now more of a team effort than ever before. Modern players may indeed be the greatest geniuses ever to walk the earth, as you'd like to have us believe, but pardon me for being a bit sceptical about that particular self-serving narrative." I actually agree with a lot of that. It probably says a lot that Cluxton is probably Dublin fans' favourite for POTY. There were no real stand out players for Dublin over the two finals but you could say that 4 or 5 were operating evenly on a very high plain in game 2, Kilkenny, Mannion, Con, Fitzsimons, Howard. Today's game doesn't have an over reliance on a King pin. Rather a lot of players can perform a lot of skills very well, shooting off both feet, good kick passers, good distance hand passers etc. when you consider what Dublin have done you might think that their squad would contain two or three Canavans or Gooches. It doesn't. I think Connolly is the closest player we have to that wizardry. Tactics have evolved too. The swarm defense came from the McGuinness/Kernan era. It requires huge fitness levels. While the Ulster teams were fairly robotic in terms of it's implementation Dublin and Kerry have a much more fluid model, press and decompress as the game demands. It has made for better viewing but rule tweaks may be required to prevent mass defending in the 45. It had to happen in basketball, it may happen in football.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 19/09/2019 08:33:18
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Replying To legendzxix: "Sure. Having 3 counties in 1 is more helpful than having 1 county in 1.
Congratulations on a good achievement for Dublin and winter well." Congratulations on a good achievement for the Kerry babies and winter well -;)
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 19/09/2019 08:35:20
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Replying To legendzxix: "Kerry won their provincial championship without any home game in Killarney.
The top 6 Leinster counties by population: (excluding Dublin City)
1. Fingal - 296,020
2. South Dublin - 278,767
3. Kildare - 222,504
4. Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown - 218,018
5. Meath - 195,044
6. Wexford - 149,722
Congratulations again to Dublin on a good achievement for them. Winter well!" Congratulations again on a good achievement for the Kerry babies and winter well
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 19/09/2019 08:42:02
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Replying To legendzxix: "I don't really want to be pointing this out.
If a swimmer has an average record, then wins 3 Olympic gold medals and is subsequently banned for a doping violation. What's the conclusion?
Dublin never won 3 in-a-row before. Some people speak of financial doping. It's accepted that millions and millions were pumped in. All of a sudden we have a runaway train seeking 6+ in-a-row. What's the conclusion?
I often use the example of England's professional women dominating an amateur Six Nations. Some get it. Some do not. Winter well regardless!" You ok hun ? winter well ya poor thing .
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 19/09/2019 08:46:34
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An unfair and seeded Munster championship helped Kerry. Just when we were showing signs of promise the seeded Munster football championship was voted back in against our will.
Munster Hurling championship, on the other hand, has been seeded for years with Clare (1998) the only one not to win the provincial championship in the last 10 years. Of course, Clare did win an All Ireland six years ago.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 19/09/2019 09:49:37
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Replying To Killarney.87: "An unfair and seeded Munster championship helped Kerry. Just when we were showing signs of promise the seeded Munster football championship was voted back in against our will.
Munster Hurling championship, on the other hand, has been seeded for years with Clare (1998) the only one not to win the provincial championship in the last 10 years. Of course, Clare did win an All Ireland six years ago." Make no mistake about it Killarney.87 .Kerry have no interest in promoting or developing the games in Munster or in general. That's all Grand like but most of the commentators on here from the SW would have you believe that they would love competition and that there's great promise here and there. They're coding nobody.
You're a grand lad as long as you're not beating them and as soon as it looks like you have a sniff of it they'll change their tune.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 19/09/2019 11:52:53
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I'd actually put Kilkenny's 4 in a row & 11 All Ireland's in 16 years (2000-2016) ahead of anything seen in Gaelic Football to date. Seven different counties beaten in finals during that spell & in the 5 years they didn't win they were runners up in 2 of the finals, semi finalists in 2 other years and quarter finalists in 2013.
Dublin's 7 titles in a decade were won beating 3 different sides which suggests a small competitive group of football teams vying for the top honour. This century so far hurling has become more competitive and football less.
Both great achievements as were the previous Kilkenny, Kerry and Wexford ones. Still, I know which one I'd prefer and the history books will record as the greatest.
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 19/09/2019 12:50:31
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Replying To catch22: "Make no mistake about it Killarney.87 .Kerry have no interest in promoting or developing the games in Munster or in general. That's all Grand like but most of the commentators on here from the SW would have you believe that they would love competition and that there's great promise here and there. They're coding nobody.
You're a grand lad as long as you're not beating them and as soon as it looks like you have a sniff of it they'll change their tune." Ah there's catch22 again with his usual 2 like minimum on every post. Very similar to lilylanger and a notorious Dublin poster who, without fail, have 2 likes on every post.
All coincidental I am sure. Hmmmmmmm.
dakid (Australia) - Posts: 284 - 19/09/2019 13:19:47
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Replying To slayer: "I'd actually put Kilkenny's 4 in a row & 11 All Ireland's in 16 years (2000-2016) ahead of anything seen in Gaelic Football to date. Seven different counties beaten in finals during that spell & in the 5 years they didn't win they were runners up in 2 of the finals, semi finalists in 2 other years and quarter finalists in 2013.
Dublin's 7 titles in a decade were won beating 3 different sides which suggests a small competitive group of football teams vying for the top honour. This century so far hurling has become more competitive and football less.
Both great achievements as were the previous Kilkenny, Kerry and Wexford ones. Still, I know which one I'd prefer and the history books will record as the greatest." Two different sports. Might as well be comparing soccer to Lacrosse.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 19/09/2019 13:40:50
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Replying To slayer: "I'd actually put Kilkenny's 4 in a row & 11 All Ireland's in 16 years (2000-2016) ahead of anything seen in Gaelic Football to date. Seven different counties beaten in finals during that spell & in the 5 years they didn't win they were runners up in 2 of the finals, semi finalists in 2 other years and quarter finalists in 2013.
Dublin's 7 titles in a decade were won beating 3 different sides which suggests a small competitive group of football teams vying for the top honour. This century so far hurling has become more competitive and football less.
Both great achievements as were the previous Kilkenny, Kerry and Wexford ones. Still, I know which one I'd prefer and the history books will record as the greatest." Kilkennys wins were indeed great achievements and funny thing is when they were going for the 5, I remember plenty of hurling people wanted nothing more than to see them lose.That's only natural I suppose.
What I would say in relation to Dublin making history is that , the fact that Kilkenny for all that dominance and the amount of titles in that period, couldn't seal the 5th victory and that in itself demonstrates just how difficult it is to do and that's why it's special. Also, the margins by which they won and the amount of replays Dublin won for those All Irelands is evidence of this and further enhances it .
Whatever about this or that, it still hadn't been done in the history of the GAA so I'm just delighted we done it and the rest is history.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 19/09/2019 13:58:37
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Replying To slayer: "I'd actually put Kilkenny's 4 in a row & 11 All Ireland's in 16 years (2000-2016) ahead of anything seen in Gaelic Football to date. Seven different counties beaten in finals during that spell & in the 5 years they didn't win they were runners up in 2 of the finals, semi finalists in 2 other years and quarter finalists in 2013.
Dublin's 7 titles in a decade were won beating 3 different sides which suggests a small competitive group of football teams vying for the top honour. This century so far hurling has become more competitive and football less.
Both great achievements as were the previous Kilkenny, Kerry and Wexford ones. Still, I know which one I'd prefer and the history books will record as the greatest." Cork also won four in a row.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4316 - 19/09/2019 14:16:17
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Jaysus - they were both great sides.
Is that not enough ?
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 19/09/2019 14:20:59
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Replying To Dubh_linn: " Replying To slayer: "I'd actually put Kilkenny's 4 in a row & 11 All Ireland's in 16 years (2000-2016) ahead of anything seen in Gaelic Football to date. Seven different counties beaten in finals during that spell & in the 5 years they didn't win they were runners up in 2 of the finals, semi finalists in 2 other years and quarter finalists in 2013.
Dublin's 7 titles in a decade were won beating 3 different sides which suggests a small competitive group of football teams vying for the top honour. This century so far hurling has become more competitive and football less.
Both great achievements as were the previous Kilkenny, Kerry and Wexford ones. Still, I know which one I'd prefer and the history books will record as the greatest." Kilkennys wins were indeed great achievements and funny thing is when they were going for the 5, I remember plenty of hurling people wanted nothing more than to see them lose.That's only natural I suppose. What I would say in relation to Dublin making history is that , the fact that Kilkenny for all that dominance and the amount of titles in that period, couldn't seal the 5th victory and that in itself demonstrates just how difficult it is to do and that's why it's special. Also, the margins by which they won and the amount of replays Dublin won for those All Irelands is evidence of this and further enhances it . Whatever about this or that, it still hadn't been done in the history of the GAA so I'm just delighted we done it and the rest is history."
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 19/09/2019 14:23:47
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Replying To Fionn: "Spot on.
Don't forget Super 8's and other teams
having a back door get out of jail card as Mayo have used.
The quality of teams Kerry met were not nearly at the same level as Mayo, Tyrone etc.
There is no argument at all here.
Even ex kerry players had said as much.
So that is it. Let's put this one to bed." The Tyrone team of the last five years weren't a patch on their All Ireland winning teams. Mayo were well down in quality level this year and that one of the reasons why both Kerry and Dublin beat them by 10 points this summer. Reached finals in 2016,2017 and pushed Dublin all the way but Mayo had some really iffy moments on route to both of those finals so much so that few gave them a chance to give Dublin a game.
Kerry who lets be honest and still in transition able to reach AI doesn't speak volumes for the quality of opposition at the moment but it should give Kerry confidence that they forced Dublin into two games to beat them and it wasn't until the last quarter of the 2nd game that Dublin pulled away.
The thing about Kerry's great team was they probably showed their best in finals. Dublin have been somewhat laboured in finals but very effective (last Saturday was the best a Jim Gavin side has played in a final IMO). Can't really compare the two, different eras back in the late 70s 80s as back then it was mostly relying on just your starting 15 to now your 26 match day panel and Kerry or any side back then wasn't exposed to the S&C and preparation of nowadays.
ispeakwisdom (Roscommon) - Posts: 2487 - 19/09/2019 14:54:44
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Cavans 2 in a row tops the lot
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12115 - 19/09/2019 15:04:27
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Replying To Oldtourman: " Replying To slayer: "I'd actually put Kilkenny's 4 in a row & 11 All Ireland's in 16 years (2000-2016) ahead of anything seen in Gaelic Football to date. Seven different counties beaten in finals during that spell & in the 5 years they didn't win they were runners up in 2 of the finals, semi finalists in 2 other years and quarter finalists in 2013.
Dublin's 7 titles in a decade were won beating 3 different sides which suggests a small competitive group of football teams vying for the top honour. This century so far hurling has become more competitive and football less.
Both great achievements as were the previous Kilkenny, Kerry and Wexford ones. Still, I know which one I'd prefer and the history books will record as the greatest." Cork also won four in a row."
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 19/09/2019 15:50:18
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To Dubh_linn: "[quote=slayer: "I'd actually put Kilkenny's 4 in a row & 11 All Ireland's in 16 years (2000-2016) ahead of anything seen in Gaelic Football to date. Seven different counties beaten in finals during that spell & in the 5 years they didn't win they were runners up in 2 of the finals, semi finalists in 2 other years and quarter finalists in 2013.
Dublin's 7 titles in a decade were won beating 3 different sides which suggests a small competitive group of football teams vying for the top honour. This century so far hurling has become more competitive and football less.
Both great achievements as were the previous Kilkenny, Kerry and Wexford ones. Still, I know which one I'd prefer and the history books will record as the greatest." Kilkennys wins were indeed great achievements and funny thing is when they were going for the 5, I remember plenty of hurling people wanted nothing more than to see them lose.That's only natural I suppose. What I would say in relation to Dublin making history is that , the fact that Kilkenny for all that dominance and the amount of titles in that period, couldn't seal the 5th victory and that in itself demonstrates just how difficult it is to do and that's why it's special. Also, the margins by which they won and the amount of replays Dublin won for those All Irelands is evidence of this and further enhances it . Whatever about this or that, it still hadn't been done in the history of the GAA so I'm just delighted we done it and the rest is history."
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 19/09/2019 17:45:39
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Replying To Joxer: " Replying To KingdomBoy1: "[quote=Dubh_linn: "[quote=slayer: "I'd actually put Kilkenny's 4 in a row & 11 All Ireland's in 16 years (2000-2016) ahead of anything seen in Gaelic Football to date. Seven different counties beaten in finals during that spell & in the 5 years they didn't win they were runners up in 2 of the finals, semi finalists in 2 other years and quarter finalists in 2013.
Dublin's 7 titles in a decade were won beating 3 different sides which suggests a small competitive group of football teams vying for the top honour. This century so far hurling has become more competitive and football less.
Both great achievements as were the previous Kilkenny, Kerry and Wexford ones. Still, I know which one I'd prefer and the history books will record as the greatest." Kilkennys wins were indeed great achievements and funny thing is when they were going for the 5, I remember plenty of hurling people wanted nothing more than to see them lose.That's only natural I suppose. What I would say in relation to Dublin making history is that , the fact that Kilkenny for all that dominance and the amount of titles in that period, couldn't seal the 5th victory and that in itself demonstrates just how difficult it is to do and that's why it's special. Also, the margins by which they won and the amount of replays Dublin won for those All Irelands is evidence of this and further enhances it . Whatever about this or that, it still hadn't been done in the history of the GAA so I'm just delighted we done it and the rest is history."
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 19/09/2019 18:39:17
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To Joxer: "[quote=KingdomBoy1: "[quote=Dubh_linn: "[quote=slayer: "I'd actually put Kilkenny's 4 in a row & 11 All Ireland's in 16 years (2000-2016) ahead of anything seen in Gaelic Football to date. Seven different counties beaten in finals during that spell & in the 5 years they didn't win they were runners up in 2 of the finals, semi finalists in 2 other years and quarter finalists in 2013.
Dublin's 7 titles in a decade were won beating 3 different sides which suggests a small competitive group of football teams vying for the top honour. This century so far hurling has become more competitive and football less.
Both great achievements as were the previous Kilkenny, Kerry and Wexford ones. Still, I know which one I'd prefer and the history books will record as the greatest." Kilkennys wins were indeed great achievements and funny thing is when they were going for the 5, I remember plenty of hurling people wanted nothing more than to see them lose.That's only natural I suppose. What I would say in relation to Dublin making history is that , the fact that Kilkenny for all that dominance and the amount of titles in that period, couldn't seal the 5th victory and that in itself demonstrates just how difficult it is to do and that's why it's special. Also, the margins by which they won and the amount of replays Dublin won for those All Irelands is evidence of this and further enhances it . Whatever about this or that, it still hadn't been done in the history of the GAA so I'm just delighted we done it and the rest is history."
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3724 - 19/09/2019 21:06:37
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Replying To Kerrymanlegend: "Think Kerry 4 in a row is more impressive as they used the exact same 15 players year in year out and had no subs whereas the Dublin team changed every year from 2015 to 2019.." They also had less advantages so all in all those 4 all ireland's are more impressive.
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 20/09/2019 04:34:58
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