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Replying To legendzxix: "Congratulations to Dublin on what is a good achievement for them.
Limerick, Cork and Galway have had city and county councils. Dublin has 3 county councils and the capital city council. Dialogue needs to move in the direction of the 3 county sections of Dublin sharing a section of the city each. It will not happen overnight. It will probably have to happen after a three year period of three teams entering underage and possibly in the national league as well.
Sensible discussion is welcome. If people think this is a crackpot suggestion, please respectfully move on.
The suggestion:
North Dublin = Fingal County and a section of the city.
South Dublin = South Dublin County and a section of the city.
East Dublin or Mid Dublin = Dun Laoighaire-Rathdown and a section of the city.
May the capital winter well." I'm all for having a discussion on inequality in the Championship structure. However if part of that discussion is on splitting Dublin in two, three or whatever, then we must also be open to counties amalgamating and consolidating to even out the differences as much as possible.
A Championship based on county and provincial geographical borders has always had flaws, one of which was Ulster teams having to play more matches than a Munster team to win an All Ireland. Does the restructuring begin and end with Dublin or are we willing to consider making changes wholesale to address imbalances across the board.
bubba83 (Dublin) - Posts: 333 - 18/09/2019 13:55:23
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All this nonsense about Dublin boycotting the all Ireland if they were split in two is simply that, nonsense ......wouldn't not be better to create proper competitive conditions or do you simply seek to have a numerical and as a consequence financial advantage over everyone else.....change will be coming whether people like it or not as urban growth and rural depopulation needs to be faced into by the GAA, ultimately that will mean structural change whether people like it or not.......
PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 696 - 18/09/2019 12:53:30
I'm not sure you get it. Splitting Dublin in 2/3/4 is removing Dublin from the Championship.
It will lead to a massive lack of interest in inter-county GAA in the new made up "counties" that you've created.
It would take a generation or two before you'd be able to grow any sort of interest in these new counties.
Dublin people have a connection to Dublin as a city and county. To cut off bits of it and create new counties that they don't have the same connection to is obviously going to affect the interest levels.
I'm not saying there isn't merits in the idea but just people need to be realistic about what would happen. Partitioning Dublin would take 30/40 years before anyone would develop an affinity with the county, essentially it would have to be those that have no memory of the current situation that grow up and make the new counties successful and relevant.
Like you said, urban growth and rural depopulation need to be faced by the GAA but also people need to made aware of the likely consequences of certain ideas floating about.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 18/09/2019 14:03:33
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Replying To Greenfield: "Confusing title. I thought this thread was going to be about the trinity of John Costello, John Horan and Paul Flynn who ensure everything runs smoothly for the Dubs." That would be the unholy trinity you're talking about :-)
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 18/09/2019 14:05:50
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Replying To MesAmis: "All this nonsense about Dublin boycotting the all Ireland if they were split in two is simply that, nonsense ......wouldn't not be better to create proper competitive conditions or do you simply seek to have a numerical and as a consequence financial advantage over everyone else.....change will be coming whether people like it or not as urban growth and rural depopulation needs to be faced into by the GAA, ultimately that will mean structural change whether people like it or not.......
PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 696 - 18/09/2019 12:53:30
I'm not sure you get it. Splitting Dublin in 2/3/4 is removing Dublin from the Championship.
It will lead to a massive lack of interest in inter-county GAA in the new made up "counties" that you've created.
It would take a generation or two before you'd be able to grow any sort of interest in these new counties.
Dublin people have a connection to Dublin as a city and county. To cut off bits of it and create new counties that they don't have the same connection to is obviously going to affect the interest levels.
I'm not saying there isn't merits in the idea but just people need to be realistic about what would happen. Partitioning Dublin would take 30/40 years before anyone would develop an affinity with the county, essentially it would have to be those that have no memory of the current situation that grow up and make the new counties successful and relevant.
Like you said, urban growth and rural depopulation need to be faced by the GAA but also people need to made aware of the likely consequences of certain ideas floating about." But mes if you don't split Dublin it's going to lead to a lack of interest from the other 31 counties, the needs of the many fat outweigh the needs of few.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 18/09/2019 14:15:27
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Replying To legendzxix: "A rival doesn't like losing to a rival. Where's the surprise there? My experience is of Dubs being respectful in defeat and victory.
Any split in Dublin has to be respectfully discussed. It's key for the future sustainability of the game.
Sure many might not like all Dublin provincial finals or All-Ireland finals. It will be a fairer playing field however.
Example of a 16 team All-Ireland Championship:
1. Mayo, Mid Dublin, Cavan, Armagh.
2. Tyrone, Galway, Meath, Cork.
3. Kerry, South Dublin, Roscommon, Kildare.
4. North Dublin, Monaghan, Donegal, Westmeath." How can it be split up in the way you suggest? Football is only one part of the GAA, a club in Dublin usually plays 4 codes. Huge swathes of the city has no GAA presence at all, the city geographical is not the sum of equal parts, the North side is small compared to Southside, there are 90 clubs chopping 90 GAA clubs to accommodate one code will not only not work, players will boycott it. So I guess then you can have a Dublin less Football championship, which ultimately is what you all want. McStay on Prime time was full of nonsense when presented the simple reality on the ground.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 18/09/2019 14:15:35
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It is a wind up of course but behind it is an attempt to discredit and detract from the achievements of Dublin over the last decade. A blind man could see that.
Also, there's a basic ignorance of what splitting a county would do to the supporter base within that county and how ultimately the GAA would be the losers in the long run.
If people want to compete against a fragmented Dublin then, will it take away from their victories in the future or does that mater ?
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 18/09/2019 14:17:25
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Well all I can say is thank God we won the 5 in a row, Mes if correct, if a split happens thats where I and people like me will lose interest. If we go down this road we're starting from scratch in the roll on honour list. It'll take at least a couple of generations to attract support for these 'Dublin' teams and I'll be long in the ground by then.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8586 - 18/09/2019 14:20:09
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Can we split Tipp by the riding too?
In hurling at least
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 18/09/2019 14:23:08
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Replying To arock: "How can it be split up in the way you suggest? Football is only one part of the GAA, a club in Dublin usually plays 4 codes. Huge swathes of the city has no GAA presence at all, the city geographical is not the sum of equal parts, the North side is small compared to Southside, there are 90 clubs chopping 90 GAA clubs to accommodate one code will not only not work, players will boycott it. So I guess then you can have a Dublin less Football championship, which ultimately is what you all want. McStay on Prime time was full of nonsense when presented the simple reality on the ground." Dont bite..... WUM's in overdrive here....
Just laugh at these embarrassing posts...
@ Dubs:-
All you need to remember is - we just won FIVE IN A ROW ;o)
Enjoy and keep smiling....
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3725 - 18/09/2019 14:33:29
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Replying To legendzxix: "Congratulations to Dublin on what is a good achievement for them.
Limerick, Cork and Galway have had city and county councils. Dublin has 3 county councils and the capital city council. Dialogue needs to move in the direction of the 3 county sections of Dublin sharing a section of the city each. It will not happen overnight. It will probably have to happen after a three year period of three teams entering underage and possibly in the national league as well.
Sensible discussion is welcome. If people think this is a crackpot suggestion, please respectfully move on.
The suggestion:
North Dublin = Fingal County and a section of the city.
South Dublin = South Dublin County and a section of the city.
East Dublin or Mid Dublin = Dun Laoighaire-Rathdown and a section of the city.
May the capital winter well." Is it yourself that's in it, An Slíbhín Ríochta?? ;-)
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 18/09/2019 14:41:02
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Replying To PaudieSull1: "Where did I say anywhere about cutting funding, get off your high horse. Of course the GAA needs to fund and compete in the capital city and its suburbs which it has rightly done but that doesn't take away from the fact that now Dublin is well organised and funded that we don't need to look at structures to ensure we maximise on playing numbers but also the competitiveness of the games.....even the fact you are quoting Na Fianna with 3000+ members, tears madness as that should be 2/3 clubs not a single superclub and therein lies one if the problems
All this nonsense about Dublin boycotting the all Ireland if they were split in two is simply that, nonsense ......wouldn't not be better to create proper competitive conditions or do you simply seek to have a numerical and as a consequence financial advantage over everyone else.....change will be coming whether people like it or not as urban growth and rural depopulation needs to be faced into by the GAA, ultimately that will mean structural change whether people like it or not......." It isn't nonsense; I'm not a Dub but no county would allow a pen pusher or committee to sail in overnight and discard over a hundred years of tradition, loyality and sense of belonging. There is a bit of banter but serious conversation on another thread. A town was pushed from County Mayo to County Roscommon in 1898 and in 2019 still compete in the county they were aligned to in GAA terms back in 1898. That is how deep loyality runs so people need to wise up to what is being suggested here. Dublin will simply not allow it to happen and if they need to boycott any competitions I'd say it's more than a possibility. Other suggestions will be explored but opening the political football and nasty fall out from forcing a split on any county won't be entertained by the decision makers especially against it's cash cow.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 18/09/2019 14:41:34
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Replying To Dubh_linn: "It is a wind up of course but behind it is an attempt to discredit and detract from the achievements of Dublin over the last decade. A blind man could see that.
Also, there's a basic ignorance of what splitting a county would do to the supporter base within that county and how ultimately the GAA would be the losers in the long run.
If people want to compete against a fragmented Dublin then, will it take away from their victories in the future or does that mater ?" But come here the GAA are pumping millions into Dublin and they're saying the reason for this is participation they want people playing the game in Dublin well then 1 intercounty team in Dublin isn't going to cut it , if they want people from Dublin to participate in football then they'll have to give them more than 1 team to do it.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 18/09/2019 14:42:40
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To MesAmis: "All this nonsense about Dublin boycotting the all Ireland if they were split in two is simply that, nonsense ......wouldn't not be better to create proper competitive conditions or do you simply seek to have a numerical and as a consequence financial advantage over everyone else.....change will be coming whether people like it or not as urban growth and rural depopulation needs to be faced into by the GAA, ultimately that will mean structural change whether people like it or not.......
PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 696 - 18/09/2019 12:53:30
I'm not sure you get it. Splitting Dublin in 2/3/4 is removing Dublin from the Championship.
It will lead to a massive lack of interest in inter-county GAA in the new made up "counties" that you've created.
It would take a generation or two before you'd be able to grow any sort of interest in these new counties.
Dublin people have a connection to Dublin as a city and county. To cut off bits of it and create new counties that they don't have the same connection to is obviously going to affect the interest levels.
I'm not saying there isn't merits in the idea but just people need to be realistic about what would happen. Partitioning Dublin would take 30/40 years before anyone would develop an affinity with the county, essentially it would have to be those that have no memory of the current situation that grow up and make the new counties successful and relevant.
Like you said, urban growth and rural depopulation need to be faced by the GAA but also people need to made aware of the likely consequences of certain ideas floating about." But mes if you don't split Dublin it's going to lead to a lack of interest from the other 31 counties, the needs of the many fat outweigh the needs of few."
I do see the merits of a split. Really but just lets be honest about what it'll look like. No real Dublin presence in the Championship for a period of time. At least 20 years but could be more.
Also if we're talking partition we need to be talking about amalgamations but because otherwise what's the point?
If the split was part of an overall look into how we structure the teams entering the competitions then it makes sense to me so that the GAA can move with the shifting populations on the island.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 18/09/2019 14:42:58
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Replying To realdub: "Well all I can say is thank God we won the 5 in a row, Mes if correct, if a split happens thats where I and people like me will lose interest. If we go down this road we're starting from scratch in the roll on honour list. It'll take at least a couple of generations to attract support for these 'Dublin' teams and I'll be long in the ground by then." Good. Lose interest. Go back to Bohs and Shamrock Rovers . You are not GAA people. Real GAA people are interested in a fair and equitable competition. They understand the cultural significance of the organization and what it represents to communities up and down the country.
As Dr. Niall Moyna (formerly on the Dublin backroom team and manager of DCU) wrote yesterday, Dublin only have real fan base of about 8k real GAA people. The rest as far as I can see are a shower of mouths with no interest in the GAA as a whole, its future or any sense of competition. Its just an excuse for a p***-up and a row and a jeer and so long as ye are winning, that's all that matters. Its purely a way of one-upmanship and asserting some kind of superiority complex over the rest of the country, or boggers and culchies as you would ascribe them.
It seems that a lot of Dublin fans (and indeed Dublin players going by their twitter feeds) have woken up today to the fact that the country is not celebrating the 5 in a row or showing respect to the remarkable achievement of a 5 in a row. It is tainted. Badly tainted by not only inequity in the distribution of funds but also in the unashamed conversion of the national stadium into Dublin's home ground.
We've all heard about how only Dublin songs were played in Croke Park on All Ireland Final Day and the homage to Stephen Cluxton on the screen just before kickoff in the Leinster semi-final. But also the assessment of Meath coach Colm Nally (a former Dublin player) of what its like for opposition teams to now play against Dublin in Croke Park was stark (he touched on how the stewards treat the Dublin players differently to the Meath players from the moment they get off the bus, how they are allowed the run of the stadium's facilities while Meath players are strictly restricted in terms of access by the Dublin stewards, to how the referee, linesmen and umpires referred to the Dublin players by their first names and the Meath players by their numbers).
Also, can anyone tell me how Dublin are allowed to have a whole terrace for themselves allowing them to generate an atmosphere like no other team can in Croke Park while Dublin are playing? If so, when was this decision taken? Was it voted on in congress? Was it a decision by Croke Park themselves? When I was a younger man, Meath fans used to take up the Canal terrace end and we could try to create a similar atmosphere. Why was there no terrace left in the Canal end yet Hill 16 was kept as a terrace? Why are Dublin allowed the same dressing room in Croke Park each time? Why are the allowed to warm up in front of their reserved terrace? Is this a directive from Croke Park? I'd genuinely love to know.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1316 - 18/09/2019 14:54:36
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Would love it tried! Massive withdrawal and boycotts! Dublin would survive as we would look to our own and enough of a population in Dublin to keep the game alive!
In fact could be a huge money spinner for the DCB for a year or two!
Would much rather watch the Dublin As Vs Bs and the development squads for a year then sit through another Leinster Championship or the pregnant process of yet another blanket defensive team.
Be a bit of craic anyway. The winners of the fake championship tidiculed!
Make a fortune on a few flags and the line.
The home of the five in a row united and the bread basket of the GAA marginalized! Be gas craic.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/09/2019 15:09:49
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Replying To Crinigan: "Good. Lose interest. Go back to Bohs and Shamrock Rovers . You are not GAA people. Real GAA people are interested in a fair and equitable competition. They understand the cultural significance of the organization and what it represents to communities up and down the country.
As Dr. Niall Moyna (formerly on the Dublin backroom team and manager of DCU) wrote yesterday, Dublin only have real fan base of about 8k real GAA people. The rest as far as I can see are a shower of mouths with no interest in the GAA as a whole, its future or any sense of competition. Its just an excuse for a p***-up and a row and a jeer and so long as ye are winning, that's all that matters. Its purely a way of one-upmanship and asserting some kind of superiority complex over the rest of the country, or boggers and culchies as you would ascribe them.
It seems that a lot of Dublin fans (and indeed Dublin players going by their twitter feeds) have woken up today to the fact that the country is not celebrating the 5 in a row or showing respect to the remarkable achievement of a 5 in a row. It is tainted. Badly tainted by not only inequity in the distribution of funds but also in the unashamed conversion of the national stadium into Dublin's home ground.
We've all heard about how only Dublin songs were played in Croke Park on All Ireland Final Day and the homage to Stephen Cluxton on the screen just before kickoff in the Leinster semi-final. But also the assessment of Meath coach Colm Nally (a former Dublin player) of what its like for opposition teams to now play against Dublin in Croke Park was stark (he touched on how the stewards treat the Dublin players differently to the Meath players from the moment they get off the bus, how they are allowed the run of the stadium's facilities while Meath players are strictly restricted in terms of access by the Dublin stewards, to how the referee, linesmen and umpires referred to the Dublin players by their first names and the Meath players by their numbers).
Also, can anyone tell me how Dublin are allowed to have a whole terrace for themselves allowing them to generate an atmosphere like no other team can in Croke Park while Dublin are playing? If so, when was this decision taken? Was it voted on in congress? Was it a decision by Croke Park themselves? When I was a younger man, Meath fans used to take up the Canal terrace end and we could try to create a similar atmosphere. Why was there no terrace left in the Canal end yet Hill 16 was kept as a terrace? Why are Dublin allowed the same dressing room in Croke Park each time? Why are the allowed to warm up in front of their reserved terrace? Is this a directive from Croke Park? I'd genuinely love to know." Dublin players are superstars; amongst the best to ever play the game and where many will be named on the GAA's next greatest team. Superstars attract crowds and hangers on. Count yourself lucky when these greats are talked about in decades to come you can say you seen them play. Show some respect to true GAA legends :)
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 18/09/2019 15:16:08
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Replying To arock: "How can it be split up in the way you suggest? Football is only one part of the GAA, a club in Dublin usually plays 4 codes. Huge swathes of the city has no GAA presence at all, the city geographical is not the sum of equal parts, the North side is small compared to Southside, there are 90 clubs chopping 90 GAA clubs to accommodate one code will not only not work, players will boycott it. So I guess then you can have a Dublin less Football championship, which ultimately is what you all want. McStay on Prime time was full of nonsense when presented the simple reality on the ground." Population figures excluding Dublin City:
Fingal - 296,020
South Dublin - 278,767
Galway - 258,057
Derry - 258,132
Kildare - 222,504
Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown - 218,018
Meath - 195,044
Limerick - 194,899
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 18/09/2019 15:18:30
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To MesAmis: "All this nonsense about Dublin boycotting the all Ireland if they were split in two is simply that, nonsense ......wouldn't not be better to create proper competitive conditions or do you simply seek to have a numerical and as a consequence financial advantage over everyone else.....change will be coming whether people like it or not as urban growth and rural depopulation needs to be faced into by the GAA, ultimately that will mean structural change whether people like it or not.......
PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 696 - 18/09/2019 12:53:30
I'm not sure you get it. Splitting Dublin in 2/3/4 is removing Dublin from the Championship.
It will lead to a massive lack of interest in inter-county GAA in the new made up "counties" that you've created.
It would take a generation or two before you'd be able to grow any sort of interest in these new counties.
Dublin people have a connection to Dublin as a city and county. To cut off bits of it and create new counties that they don't have the same connection to is obviously going to affect the interest levels.
I'm not saying there isn't merits in the idea but just people need to be realistic about what would happen. Partitioning Dublin would take 30/40 years before anyone would develop an affinity with the county, essentially it would have to be those that have no memory of the current situation that grow up and make the new counties successful and relevant.
Like you said, urban growth and rural depopulation need to be faced by the GAA but also people need to made aware of the likely consequences of certain ideas floating about." But mes if you don't split Dublin it's going to lead to a lack of interest from the other 31 counties, the needs of the many fat outweigh the needs of few."
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 674 - 18/09/2019 15:19:54
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Replying To Crinigan: "Good. Lose interest. Go back to Bohs and Shamrock Rovers . You are not GAA people. Real GAA people are interested in a fair and equitable competition. They understand the cultural significance of the organization and what it represents to communities up and down the country.
As Dr. Niall Moyna (formerly on the Dublin backroom team and manager of DCU) wrote yesterday, Dublin only have real fan base of about 8k real GAA people. The rest as far as I can see are a shower of mouths with no interest in the GAA as a whole, its future or any sense of competition. Its just an excuse for a p***-up and a row and a jeer and so long as ye are winning, that's all that matters. Its purely a way of one-upmanship and asserting some kind of superiority complex over the rest of the country, or boggers and culchies as you would ascribe them.
It seems that a lot of Dublin fans (and indeed Dublin players going by their twitter feeds) have woken up today to the fact that the country is not celebrating the 5 in a row or showing respect to the remarkable achievement of a 5 in a row. It is tainted. Badly tainted by not only inequity in the distribution of funds but also in the unashamed conversion of the national stadium into Dublin's home ground.
We've all heard about how only Dublin songs were played in Croke Park on All Ireland Final Day and the homage to Stephen Cluxton on the screen just before kickoff in the Leinster semi-final. But also the assessment of Meath coach Colm Nally (a former Dublin player) of what its like for opposition teams to now play against Dublin in Croke Park was stark (he touched on how the stewards treat the Dublin players differently to the Meath players from the moment they get off the bus, how they are allowed the run of the stadium's facilities while Meath players are strictly restricted in terms of access by the Dublin stewards, to how the referee, linesmen and umpires referred to the Dublin players by their first names and the Meath players by their numbers).
Also, can anyone tell me how Dublin are allowed to have a whole terrace for themselves allowing them to generate an atmosphere like no other team can in Croke Park while Dublin are playing? If so, when was this decision taken? Was it voted on in congress? Was it a decision by Croke Park themselves? When I was a younger man, Meath fans used to take up the Canal terrace end and we could try to create a similar atmosphere. Why was there no terrace left in the Canal end yet Hill 16 was kept as a terrace? Why are Dublin allowed the same dressing room in Croke Park each time? Why are the allowed to warm up in front of their reserved terrace? Is this a directive from Croke Park? I'd genuinely love to know." Hill tickets are available to anyone who wants them for every game involving Dublin.
Mayo fans have smashed this myth time and time again at this stage yet this lad persists with it.
There is nothing stopping anyone from any county going to hill for a Dublin game.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 18/09/2019 16:00:07
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "But come here the GAA are pumping millions into Dublin and they're saying the reason for this is participation they want people playing the game in Dublin well then 1 intercounty team in Dublin isn't going to cut it , if they want people from Dublin to participate in football then they'll have to give them more than 1 team to do it." But again, all those involved in GAA in Dublin want to play for Dublin not a watered down version of it. It's not ideal but like I said it would be far less ideal if Dublin were split and interest would suffer.
Let me put it another way for you. Would Cork or any other Munster county be happy to beat a portion of Kerry to win a title. Of course not. That's the basic issue that makes splitting any county wrong.
You can never accommodate everyone but getting people involved and competing in the GAA is good for it. If you try splitting Dublin, the foundation is gone in Dublin and Rugby and soccer and athletics and whatever other sports you can think of will benefit. Our dominance won't last forever. Kerry would probably have been on for 7 or 8 in a row back in the 70s and 80s but for Dublin and Offaly.
It happens, don't forget Dublin won a few of their 5 in a row by very small margins and replays.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 18/09/2019 16:06:27
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