National Forum

Cavan Vs Tyrone

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "Until we learn to handle Peter Harte we won't beat Tyrone. He destroys us every time."
exactly . And I wasn't trying to be a cute hoor. I firmly believe that if Petey Harte had not been (wrongly) black carded against Donegal then the outcome of that game would have been a lot different. Looking at The Super 8s. I think Tyrone would have every chance of finishing in the top two. That is just being realistic and I am sure the Tyrone fans would feel the same. The bookies are seldom wrong and it would be an absolute shock if Cavan were to win. I would say that it would be an even greater achievement than our last Ulster success in 1997. I honestly cannot remember the last time we beat Tyrone in the league or championship and I am no spring-chicken.
Someone on here called my post ridiculous and then went on to say that they "expect" Cavan to win. I mean come on. I expect them to give it their best shot and die with their boots on and I sincerely HOPE that they win. No one would be happier but I dont EXPECT them to win.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 02/07/2019 19:28:53    2204493

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Replying To Game2Halves:  "Tyrone will win easy. They will qualify for semis never mind super 8's. This is Tyrone we are taking about , second best team in country ."
Second best in your own head I would say

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1319 - 03/07/2019 06:19:14    2204723

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Replying To s goldrick:  "exactly . And I wasn't trying to be a cute hoor. I firmly believe that if Petey Harte had not been (wrongly) black carded against Donegal then the outcome of that game would have been a lot different. Looking at The Super 8s. I think Tyrone would have every chance of finishing in the top two. That is just being realistic and I am sure the Tyrone fans would feel the same. The bookies are seldom wrong and it would be an absolute shock if Cavan were to win. I would say that it would be an even greater achievement than our last Ulster success in 1997. I honestly cannot remember the last time we beat Tyrone in the league or championship and I am no spring-chicken.
Someone on here called my post ridiculous and then went on to say that they "expect" Cavan to win. I mean come on. I expect them to give it their best shot and die with their boots on and I sincerely HOPE that they win. No one would be happier but I dont EXPECT them to win."
I don't expect us to win , certainly not on our performance against Donegal. But I expect us to get the match ups half right at least and if we go down we'll go down having a real good go at them.
Getting turned over running up blind alleys is something that's been happening for years and I'd expect major improvement on that.
Handling P Harte for 75 mins as 30 or 40 is no good. He will destroy us and has many times before.
I'd say Tyrone by 4 but if we throw the towel in early it could be double figures.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 03/07/2019 12:27:27    2204850

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Replying To Donegal_abroad:  "Second best in your own head I would say"
Just like Dublin are current all Ireland champions and best team in the country, we are the current all Ireland runners up and second best team in the country until 2019 Final is concluded.

Game2Halves (Tyrone) - Posts: 265 - 03/07/2019 12:33:25    2204860

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Replying To s goldrick:  "exactly . And I wasn't trying to be a cute hoor. I firmly believe that if Petey Harte had not been (wrongly) black carded against Donegal then the outcome of that game would have been a lot different. Looking at The Super 8s. I think Tyrone would have every chance of finishing in the top two. That is just being realistic and I am sure the Tyrone fans would feel the same. The bookies are seldom wrong and it would be an absolute shock if Cavan were to win. I would say that it would be an even greater achievement than our last Ulster success in 1997. I honestly cannot remember the last time we beat Tyrone in the league or championship and I am no spring-chicken.
Someone on here called my post ridiculous and then went on to say that they "expect" Cavan to win. I mean come on. I expect them to give it their best shot and die with their boots on and I sincerely HOPE that they win. No one would be happier but I dont EXPECT them to win."
Peter Harte has regularly been marked out of games against Donegal. Not sure it would have made much difference.

greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 03/07/2019 13:00:28    2204879

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Replying To Game2Halves:  "Just like Dublin are current all Ireland champions and best team in the country, we are the current all Ireland runners up and second best team in the country until 2019 Final is concluded."
That's utter nonsense and is not how knockout cup competitions work. Getting to the final of a knockout competiton does not necessarily mean you are the second best team in Ireland.

Completely hypothetical but say Dublin played Kerry in the first semi final. Dublin eventually triumph by a point after extra time in a replay with the game constantly going back and forth in both matches. Also say Kerry had beaten Mayo, Donegal and Galway in their super 8s group and had beaten them all well.

On the other side we have Tyrone. Say they are in a super 8 group with Dublin, Clare and Meath. They get beat comfortably by Dublin and after a struggle eek out wins against Clare and Meath. They meet Galway in the semis and just about fall over the line. They now find themselves in an All Ireland Final where Dublin beat them by 12 points.

Now remember, this is all entirely hypothetical and is in no way a comment on the prospects of any of the teams mentioned in real life, but in that scenario, are you honestly telling me that Tyrone are the second best in Ireland ahead of Kerry?

the_walls (Mayo) - Posts: 495 - 03/07/2019 13:20:37    2204893

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Replying To Game2Halves:  "Just like Dublin are current all Ireland champions and best team in the country, we are the current all Ireland runners up and second best team in the country until 2019 Final is concluded."
But we beat you handily enough so where does that leave it? Or was that because you's weren't interested in that game... : D

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1319 - 03/07/2019 13:23:53    2204894

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Replying To Game2Halves:  "Just like Dublin are current all Ireland champions and best team in the country, we are the current all Ireland runners up and second best team in the country until 2019 Final is concluded."
And by that logic, Donegal are the best team in Ulster and Cavan are the 2nd best??

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 03/07/2019 13:28:11    2204897

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I expect us to win this but it's conceivable that we won't. Will be a tough one to take for fans of either county the next month. My bank balance is only thing that will benefit from an exit. It's either over and out or the busiest month of the year.

OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 248 - 03/07/2019 13:29:08    2204899

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Replying To OGarmaile:  "I expect us to win this but it's conceivable that we won't. Will be a tough one to take for fans of either county the next month. My bank balance is only thing that will benefit from an exit. It's either over and out or the busiest month of the year."
Yeah, a loss would be tough to take given the draw that some teams have gotten.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 03/07/2019 14:18:08    2204927

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How do you reckon Cavan will play? id prefer to see them ditch the sweeper and play the way they did in the second half against Donegal, but the smarter approach might be to use the sweeper. Id definitely be starting Cian Mackey aswell, I think his fast direct running could cause Tyrone problems, as we have been vulnerable to that all year.

Tyrone need to watch out if McKiernan goes into full forward. Think Cavan got two goals of high balls against Tyrone a few years back.

I think Tyrone will edge it, but the price of 1/4 is mental. Teams a lot closer than that.

TakeyourPoint. (Tyrone) - Posts: 133 - 03/07/2019 14:34:05    2204935

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Replying To the_walls:  "That's utter nonsense and is not how knockout cup competitions work. Getting to the final of a knockout competiton does not necessarily mean you are the second best team in Ireland.

Completely hypothetical but say Dublin played Kerry in the first semi final. Dublin eventually triumph by a point after extra time in a replay with the game constantly going back and forth in both matches. Also say Kerry had beaten Mayo, Donegal and Galway in their super 8s group and had beaten them all well.

On the other side we have Tyrone. Say they are in a super 8 group with Dublin, Clare and Meath. They get beat comfortably by Dublin and after a struggle eek out wins against Clare and Meath. They meet Galway in the semis and just about fall over the line. They now find themselves in an All Ireland Final where Dublin beat them by 12 points.

Now remember, this is all entirely hypothetical and is in no way a comment on the prospects of any of the teams mentioned in real life, but in that scenario, are you honestly telling me that Tyrone are the second best in Ireland ahead of Kerry?"
except that it is not really a knockout competition, is it ?. I somewhat agree with you though. The best team in the country should be the one who finishes top of div 1 in the league(not the league winner btw). and the second best should be the one who finishes 2nd in the league but this is the GAA of course so all is not as it seems. But I would say that you are far more likely to get the 2 best teams in the country in the All-Ireland final than in the years before the qualifiers and subsequently the years before the Super-8s.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 03/07/2019 14:53:06    2204945

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And by that logic, Donegal are the best team in Ulster and Cavan are the 2nd best??

Yep - and folowing on, Antrim the best Tommy Murphy Cuppers!

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 03/07/2019 15:31:34    2204970

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I don't think this is as clear cut as everyone is making out, Tyrone looked good against a very poor Kildare team but by no means did they look like world beaters! Cavan are a very good side and will be hungry after their big defeat last day out...i do think Tyrone have enough to win but i wouldn't put money on it...Hopefully i'm wrong but don't wright Cavan off just yet!!

TyroneLimerickMan..... (Limerick) - Posts: 4 - 03/07/2019 15:47:38    2204976

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Replying To TakeyourPoint.:  "How do you reckon Cavan will play? id prefer to see them ditch the sweeper and play the way they did in the second half against Donegal, but the smarter approach might be to use the sweeper. Id definitely be starting Cian Mackey aswell, I think his fast direct running could cause Tyrone problems, as we have been vulnerable to that all year.

Tyrone need to watch out if McKiernan goes into full forward. Think Cavan got two goals of high balls against Tyrone a few years back.

I think Tyrone will edge it, but the price of 1/4 is mental. Teams a lot closer than that."
Moynagh will play as sweeper again I'd imagine, but he drives forward when we have the ball. In our 4 games, I think he's scored 4 points.

But I think it'd be madness not to have someone in front of McShane when Tyrone attack.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 03/07/2019 17:09:58    2205022

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Moynagh will play as sweeper again I'd imagine, but he drives forward when we have the ball. In our 4 games, I think he's scored 4 points.

But I think it'd be madness not to have someone in front of McShane when Tyrone attack."
Id imagine Tyrone will do something similar, which could lead to both teams having a similar number of attacks. It will likely come down to which forwards are more clinical on the day.

Tyrone still haven't solved the long range frees problem, the conversion rate from anything around the 45' must be very low. We have went with Morgan for years but he just isn't producing at a high enough level for Tyrone to win an AI. The top teams all have at least one outstanding free taker. Id much rather see him play a short, take the return and try a shot from play.

TakeyourPoint. (Tyrone) - Posts: 133 - 04/07/2019 08:44:24    2205288

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Replying To TakeyourPoint.:  "Id imagine Tyrone will do something similar, which could lead to both teams having a similar number of attacks. It will likely come down to which forwards are more clinical on the day.

Tyrone still haven't solved the long range frees problem, the conversion rate from anything around the 45' must be very low. We have went with Morgan for years but he just isn't producing at a high enough level for Tyrone to win an AI. The top teams all have at least one outstanding free taker. Id much rather see him play a short, take the return and try a shot from play."
I agree with this 100%. The Niall Morgan free taking experiment has went on long enough.

I would love the see the stats on his conversion rate.

Also it can be much more demoralising for a team to bring their goal keeper the whole way up the pitch to miss a free/45 than it would be for an outfield player.

I think Peter Harte, Conor McAliskey or Darren McCurry would be a much better option. Probably Peter Harte would be the best option as we know he will start every match and it will add a bit more consistency to our game.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 04/07/2019 10:21:19    2205325

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Tyrone comfortable winners here for me 4-5 points to spare.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 238 - 04/07/2019 10:41:01    2205333

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Replying To Wally:  "I agree with this 100%. The Niall Morgan free taking experiment has went on long enough.

I would love the see the stats on his conversion rate.

Also it can be much more demoralising for a team to bring their goal keeper the whole way up the pitch to miss a free/45 than it would be for an outfield player.

I think Peter Harte, Conor McAliskey or Darren McCurry would be a much better option. Probably Peter Harte would be the best option as we know he will start every match and it will add a bit more consistency to our game."
Harte takes them from the left. Which he is good at.

It's the right sided frees that are the problem, Harte is predominately left footed, he can't take them from the right.

McCurry maybe. He's ahead of McAliskey at the moment. I would let McAliskey concentrate on getting his fitness and place on team back again.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 04/07/2019 12:05:44    2205383

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Replying To Wally:  "I agree with this 100%. The Niall Morgan free taking experiment has went on long enough.

I would love the see the stats on his conversion rate.

Also it can be much more demoralising for a team to bring their goal keeper the whole way up the pitch to miss a free/45 than it would be for an outfield player.

I think Peter Harte, Conor McAliskey or Darren McCurry would be a much better option. Probably Peter Harte would be the best option as we know he will start every match and it will add a bit more consistency to our game."
McCurry has been tried and tested as well though and missed some important ones later in the championship. I honestly would have Peter Harte hitting them from anywhere along the 45', he is the most consistent. Morgan could be kicking the lights out in training or with club, but he isn't doing it at most important times on too many occasions now.

But there needs to be a decision from the leaders/captain on the pitch aswell in these situations. If the free taker has missed a couple, give somebody else a go.

TakeyourPoint. (Tyrone) - Posts: 133 - 04/07/2019 12:07:25    2205384

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