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Dublin's Success Not Down To Money - GAA President

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I think every thing you say is fair here.

I'd also like to add that I do agree there are problems with the competitiveness in football and that I'd be shocked if it turned out to be a flash in the pan.

I just disagree that it's because there's been "unfair" financial assistance to Dublin or certainly the extent of it is greatly exaggerated.

I think it's because Dublin were able to get themselves more organised and that the money from central council facilitated this process.

I think the GAA as an organisation with a mission to promote our games are duty bound to provide this assistance.

I think it's good that Dublin's funding has been scaled back, it's down about 15% but there are still large numbers of kids that should be coached in Dublin and the greatest opportunity for new growth is in Dublin, East Leinster and Belfast.

The preoccupation with money also fogs the other advantages Dublin have.

The population advantage that they have will only become more pronounced over time. There will likely be a growing percentage of their population participating in GAA.

I personally don't like the idea of a split of Dublin but I can understand the argument for it.

There's another huge advantage that Dublin has and that's the size of their clubs. The sheer weight of numbers creates such a competitive environment for players at club level.

Kilmacud have roughly 200 kids per 2 year age grade.

They could field 10 teams per age grade. The competition levels that exist there just to play for the top team in one club is going to be huge.

You have that competitive environment from that early age in Dublin it's going to necessitate players to get the most out of their abilities.

It's a wide net they have also. The Kilmacud Crokes story is replicated across the city to less extreme degrees. St Vincent's, Ballymun, Ballyboden, Na Fianna, Saint Brigids, Cuala and emerging clubs like Templelogue Synge Street and Castleknock will have huge numbers coming through also.

The underage environment in Dublin is just the perfect breeding ground for getting elite senior players."
Imagine all these kids having to compete for just one county team at the various age groups. It must be very disheartening for the players and their coaches. It is easy to understand why they might be attracted to other sports.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 03/08/2019 15:29:37    2220087

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I think every thing you say is fair here.

I'd also like to add that I do agree there are problems with the competitiveness in football and that I'd be shocked if it turned out to be a flash in the pan.

I just disagree that it's because there's been "unfair" financial assistance to Dublin or certainly the extent of it is greatly exaggerated.

I think it's because Dublin were able to get themselves more organised and that the money from central council facilitated this process.

I think the GAA as an organisation with a mission to promote our games are duty bound to provide this assistance.

I think it's good that Dublin's funding has been scaled back, it's down about 15% but there are still large numbers of kids that should be coached in Dublin and the greatest opportunity for new growth is in Dublin, East Leinster and Belfast.

The preoccupation with money also fogs the other advantages Dublin have.

The population advantage that they have will only become more pronounced over time. There will likely be a growing percentage of their population participating in GAA.

I personally don't like the idea of a split of Dublin but I can understand the argument for it.

There's another huge advantage that Dublin has and that's the size of their clubs. The sheer weight of numbers creates such a competitive environment for players at club level.

Kilmacud have roughly 200 kids per 2 year age grade.

They could field 10 teams per age grade. The competition levels that exist there just to play for the top team in one club is going to be huge.

You have that competitive environment from that early age in Dublin it's going to necessitate players to get the most out of their abilities.

It's a wide net they have also. The Kilmacud Crokes story is replicated across the city to less extreme degrees. St Vincent's, Ballymun, Ballyboden, Na Fianna, Saint Brigids, Cuala and emerging clubs like Templelogue Synge Street and Castleknock will have huge numbers coming through also.

The underage environment in Dublin is just the perfect breeding ground for getting elite senior players."
But only in Football!! Even with these numbers picking a team is still a problem. Before you dismiss what I say, Henry Shefflin discussing why Dublin doesn't produce quality hurlers, he claims it is the lack of space! The reason soccer is so strong in the cities is because soccer pitches are smaller, more numerous, you can get 2.5 pitches for every GAA pitch, greenery costs money, big money. Is GAA sports strong inside the inner cities? of Belfast?, Derry?, Limerick? Cork? Waterford? I don't think so maybe I am wrong on this. But the reason why space is a problem he was saying is with all the numbers the Dub clubs have they have crowded training areas, hurling is restricted. Kids in rural Ireland go onto club pitches especially when lads away in college and they have huge open spaces to express and develop their skills. This is to a much lesser extent with football as you can play it on pretty much any open space. So you can have all the numbers in the world but it is in coaching and facilites that you truly develop players. There are less Dublin clubs per player but clubs are generally bigger than elsewhere. Football in Dublin has always been strong, it lacked quality coaching, structures, facilites etc Hurling is behind it. When most people are talking about all Dublin have, they are only ever referring to Dublin Football Inter-county success nothing else, because nothing else matters to them. Na Fianna has 2.5K plus players, its 50/50 girls to boys, so they have 1.25 male players, now divide out the ratio of 3:1 re hurling and football and you are talking about 700 male players between ages of 8 to 30+. Na Fianna has access to max 9 pitches, they own 1, schools 3, Council 2 and 3 Govt. I bet a similar story right across the city. Clubs in the city boundary cannot get greenfield sites. I am not disagreeing with you re the potential Dublin has based on population figures but Dublin has big disadvantages given the numbers available to them. Larger clubs are saturated, opportunities to play Inter-county are seriously curtailed given the numbers, many do not bother. If the powers that be are to carve up Dublin they may slay the golden goose, but I suspect that is the wish of most outside Dublin.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 03/08/2019 15:44:42    2220094

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Replying To arock:  "But only in Football!! Even with these numbers picking a team is still a problem. Before you dismiss what I say, Henry Shefflin discussing why Dublin doesn't produce quality hurlers, he claims it is the lack of space! The reason soccer is so strong in the cities is because soccer pitches are smaller, more numerous, you can get 2.5 pitches for every GAA pitch, greenery costs money, big money. Is GAA sports strong inside the inner cities? of Belfast?, Derry?, Limerick? Cork? Waterford? I don't think so maybe I am wrong on this. But the reason why space is a problem he was saying is with all the numbers the Dub clubs have they have crowded training areas, hurling is restricted. Kids in rural Ireland go onto club pitches especially when lads away in college and they have huge open spaces to express and develop their skills. This is to a much lesser extent with football as you can play it on pretty much any open space. So you can have all the numbers in the world but it is in coaching and facilites that you truly develop players. There are less Dublin clubs per player but clubs are generally bigger than elsewhere. Football in Dublin has always been strong, it lacked quality coaching, structures, facilites etc Hurling is behind it. When most people are talking about all Dublin have, they are only ever referring to Dublin Football Inter-county success nothing else, because nothing else matters to them. Na Fianna has 2.5K plus players, its 50/50 girls to boys, so they have 1.25 male players, now divide out the ratio of 3:1 re hurling and football and you are talking about 700 male players between ages of 8 to 30+. Na Fianna has access to max 9 pitches, they own 1, schools 3, Council 2 and 3 Govt. I bet a similar story right across the city. Clubs in the city boundary cannot get greenfield sites. I am not disagreeing with you re the potential Dublin has based on population figures but Dublin has big disadvantages given the numbers available to them. Larger clubs are saturated, opportunities to play Inter-county are seriously curtailed given the numbers, many do not bother. If the powers that be are to carve up Dublin they may slay the golden goose, but I suspect that is the wish of most outside Dublin."
Of course it is .
Damage has been done already , so i dont understand all the moaning and denial from both sides of the argument ..
Dublin funding needs to stop right now , and for that money to be and spread around the country over a 10 year phase which allows teams a to close the gap.
Dublin dont need anymore funding..its so blatantly obvious.

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 383 - 03/08/2019 16:00:51    2220100

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Replying To BeJasus:  "Of course it is .
Damage has been done already , so i dont understand all the moaning and denial from both sides of the argument ..
Dublin funding needs to stop right now , and for that money to be and spread around the country over a 10 year phase which allows teams a to close the gap.
Dublin dont need anymore funding..its so blatantly obvious."
Dublin have an annual turnover of about 7m and a big surplus too. The GAA should remove the funding the surplus can cover as they clearly don't need it.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 03/08/2019 20:41:29    2220248

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "Dublin have an annual turnover of about 7m and a big surplus too. The GAA should remove the funding the surplus can cover as they clearly don't need it."
How about all money generated by Dublin stays in Dublin. So we will live off the money generated by our games, our own sponsorship money, a slice of the action from the TV rights to our games, merchandising and so on. We'll forego the funding from central, most of which is probably generated on the back of Dublin anyway. I think that would be fair enough, yes? We pay half the salaries of our GDOs anyway, unlike other counties.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 03/08/2019 20:48:10    2220255

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Replying To Joxer:  "How about all money generated by Dublin stays in Dublin. So we will live off the money generated by our games, our own sponsorship money, a slice of the action from the TV rights to our games, merchandising and so on. We'll forego the funding from central, most of which is probably generated on the back of Dublin anyway. I think that would be fair enough, yes? We pay half the salaries of our GDOs anyway, unlike other counties."
I'd also add allowing us to develop our own ground, with premium and corporate seating, that where the real money is for us.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/08/2019 21:48:58    2220295

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Replying To Joxer:  "How about all money generated by Dublin stays in Dublin. So we will live off the money generated by our games, our own sponsorship money, a slice of the action from the TV rights to our games, merchandising and so on. We'll forego the funding from central, most of which is probably generated on the back of Dublin anyway. I think that would be fair enough, yes? We pay half the salaries of our GDOs anyway, unlike other counties."
Dublin would struggle with parnell park capacity at 13,000 used for home games. sponsorship and tv would decline as parnell is one of the worst grounds in ireland.

brisbane (Galway) - Posts: 674 - 03/08/2019 22:08:08    2220304

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I'd also add allowing us to develop our own ground, with premium and corporate seating, that where the real money is for us."
Attendances for the province v rural counties have been dropping. Though I suspect there should be a full house for Dublin v Mayo next Saturday.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7820 - 03/08/2019 22:10:52    2220307

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I'd also add allowing us to develop our own ground, with premium and corporate seating, that where the real money is for us."
Totally agree. Own ground, own corporate revenue. That should keep the begrudgers quiet on both their Croke Park home ground and funding whinging. It was also allow Dublin to be self-sufficient.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 03/08/2019 22:28:16    2220324

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Attendances for the province v rural counties have been dropping. Though I suspect there should be a full house for Dublin v Mayo next Saturday."
Are Dublin playing Mayo next Sat? Can you enlighten us as to where you heard/read that?

CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 03/08/2019 22:28:43    2220325

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I'd also add allowing us to develop our own ground, with premium and corporate seating, that where the real money is for us."
Nothing stopping you. The money generated by Dublin is a fraction of what it once was in terms of ticket sales. This will only further decrease. The increase in hurling is making up for it somewhat at least.

I'd be happy with a GAA that was played between actual counties. Not a province with the funds of a province. It's just pointless at this stage and the gap will widen. Nobody would miss the Dubs if they were removed. It would bring that magic feeling back to the matches that sadly only the hurling fans get now.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 03/08/2019 22:29:13    2220326

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Attendances for the province v rural counties have been dropping. Though I suspect there should be a full house for Dublin v Mayo next Saturday."
Yea whatever -:)

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 03/08/2019 22:31:35    2220329

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Replying To brisbane:  "Dublin would struggle with parnell park capacity at 13,000 used for home games. sponsorship and tv would decline as parnell is one of the worst grounds in ireland."
We have the Spawell site. Parnell is prime real estate less than 5km from O'Connell St. It could be sold with funds used to build a 35K seater stadium. Full new stadium versus half empty Croke Park would be perfect.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 03/08/2019 22:34:47    2220332

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Replying To Joxer:  "We have the Spawell site. Parnell is prime real estate less than 5km from O'Connell St. It could be sold with funds used to build a 35K seater stadium. Full new stadium versus half empty Croke Park would be perfect."
Ahh Jaysisss Joxer, ye can't sell the 'Nell.

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 03/08/2019 22:41:56    2220337

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Attendances for the province v rural counties have been dropping. Though I suspect there should be a full house for Dublin v Mayo next Saturday."
How have attendances been for Kerry PLC's championship matches?

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 03/08/2019 22:43:56    2220342

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Offaly brothers Cillian and Cathal Kiely finished first and second respectively in the All-Ireland Poc Fada competition which was held in the Cooley Mountains today.

Cillian beat his younger brother by one shot to retain the title he first won last year. Clare's Ronan Taaffe claimed third place. The high-quality field also included previous winner Brendan Cummins from Tipperary and Cork's Patrick Horgan.

Congrats to the lads above.

I'm left wondering but, how with all that dosh, Dublin weren't going for a 15 in a row here today.

CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 03/08/2019 23:30:08    2220368

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "Nothing stopping you. The money generated by Dublin is a fraction of what it once was in terms of ticket sales. This will only further decrease. The increase in hurling is making up for it somewhat at least.

I'd be happy with a GAA that was played between actual counties. Not a province with the funds of a province. It's just pointless at this stage and the gap will widen. Nobody would miss the Dubs if they were removed. It would bring that magic feeling back to the matches that sadly only the hurling fans get now."
You sound like you are speaking from a very secure base. I think counties like Meath are on very shaky ground. There is huge crowd potential in Dublin, history has proven it, when games are competitive it's there. The problem is counties like Meath rocking up in Croke Park trying to be competitive with the top counties. It's a farce, the Leinster final was a farce, there just isn't a market for teams like Meath, no body wants to see them except Meath men, and even then the crowd in Navan today was shocking. I remember the crowds Meath could mobiles in 90s and 00s, the crowd vs Kerry at home was lamentable.

To unlock the crowd and build interest the answer has to be that counties like Meath spend time in a second tier championship. This has the duel benefit of the top teams can play high drama, interesting games - lets be honest we both know next week will be a sell out, our first real test of the year. Then Meath could build, create momentum and success in the second tier might draw back interest in the county. This year they were found out of their depth in a provincial final, then smacked around in S8's.

It's inevitable, it's what the crowds want, playing mid match games is keeping crowds away. The only thing stopping it, I think is the premium seas, corporate box revenues, this has outstripped general attendance revenue for the first time last year. Who plays most of their games in Croke park - oh yeah, it's Dublin on the ticket. The GAA will increasingly not give a fiddlers about attendance.

But they can have it both, corporate and premium revenue and full houses again like, next week will be. It means creating competitive games though and that's why I think the Meaths of this s world will be in and out of a second tier championship, relatively shortly, the people have spoken, their isn't the interest in them, like their will be in the game next week.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 03/08/2019 23:38:56    2220369

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Replying To Joxer:  "We have the Spawell site. Parnell is prime real estate less than 5km from O'Connell St. It could be sold with funds used to build a 35K seater stadium. Full new stadium versus half empty Croke Park would be perfect."
What would ye do with the Spawell though and what capacity would it be? Any chance it could be shared with a League of Ireland team, rugby, athletics and a few gigs to make it profitable? Guaranteed once ye open it and stop using Croke Park as a home ground the 'Why isn't Croke Park making money' debate will start. Parnell Park is old and small but it's a fine ground to have a great atmosphere. Was at one memorable League game there in '05 packed to capacity, and a few Railway Cup matches. Needs must and all that but a great compact stadium.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7335 - 03/08/2019 23:47:50    2220374

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Replying To Joxer:  "We have the Spawell site. Parnell is prime real estate less than 5km from O'Connell St. It could be sold with funds used to build a 35K seater stadium. Full new stadium versus half empty Croke Park would be perfect."
Personally I think you should be building a stadium with 30k seats and a 10k terrace behind one goal for the hill 16 faithful. So 40k total.

Considering the house situation what kind of money would parnell sell for if it was sold for high rise apartments and maybe a hotel?

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 04/08/2019 03:16:13    2220401

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "Nothing stopping you. The money generated by Dublin is a fraction of what it once was in terms of ticket sales. This will only further decrease. The increase in hurling is making up for it somewhat at least.

I'd be happy with a GAA that was played between actual counties. Not a province with the funds of a province. It's just pointless at this stage and the gap will widen. Nobody would miss the Dubs if they were removed. It would bring that magic feeling back to the matches that sadly only the hurling fans get now."
Yesterday's All Ireland final at under 20 was played between actual counties. Last week's All Ireland minor quarter final was played between actual counties. You would think, given the population, money spent that we should see all their supposed advantages be more prevalent at underage level as their player number advantage and all their super professional coaching would not allow others compete. Again, this year there will be no under age All Ireland going to Dublin. Their seniors might win but that is probably down to the fact they have good players and a manager that keeps integrating players into the squad to keep it new and fresh.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 04/08/2019 08:59:40    2220424

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