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But you're the same person? The fact you were so fast to reply to is just backs it up..."]lol Whatever you say chief ya daft brush It's quite the compliment I'm Whammo and Keithlemon Do you hear that lads.. what do you reckon?"]I actually think you might even be me."]NO this is getting surreal. I didn't post that,"]This is not my post. avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 27/07/2019 21:44:56 2217292 Link 3 |
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Speaking as somebody who has been working at that level for over 15 years and in the capital for 30 years I can categorically state, given my own experience and network at C level across the private sector certainly, you are talking horse manure. Certainly in the public sector most of the principal and assistant principal posts, in my experience, are held by non-Dubs. But whatever you're having yourself.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 27/07/2019 22:13:51 2217302 Link 7 |
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Well that's where we will disagree my friend. Don't really deal with the public sector side of things. They don't pay quarterly dividends. Speaking more in terms of Fortune 500, But whatever you're having yourself. greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 27/07/2019 22:35:31 2217317 Link 0 |
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Oh congratulations on your success btw.
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 27/07/2019 22:40:48 2217323 Link 0 |
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Lot of factors at play here apart from direct GAA $$$$$ kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 76 - 28/07/2019 00:49:50 2217363 Link 4 |
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Yes, but these intelligent non--Dubs stay in the Capital, they get married and guess what? They have intelligent kids who grow up in Dublin, who consider themselves Dubs and who one day may go on to play for the Dubs :-) and win a bag full of All-Ireland medals. Woohoo!
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 28/07/2019 08:06:15 2217412 Link 6 |
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A lot of food for thought there and the type of open thinking about the totality of games development required for the entire country. I'd want a far-ranging and open, reasoned discussion with the best interests of the GAA at its heart. Nothing excluded and without the ABD sour grapes. Games development is about getting people to play our games, not making or breaking the drive for five.
steve097 (Dublin) - Posts: 109 - 28/07/2019 10:30:30 2217438 Link 1 |
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That is actually a very good post, there is much of it i agree it and wouldnt take much of it as a slight rather then a compliment. We do an awful lot really well. If i was to do a presentation on the contributors of Dublins success, many of those point would be in it and the fact our players play at a really high level club football, the Dublin club game is very high quality. Simply put that is one aspect but their many contributors. Some of those are unique to Dublin and a re difficult to replicate elsewhere. Take our coaching model, people talk of our GDF the funding, to be honest the ISC/GAA contribution to that is minimal the DCB and Clubs fund the majority of GDO's and coaches themselves. Dublin spent North of 3 mill last year on this. So even if say every county got 1.3 mill in GDF next year (which of course would be unfair on Dublin, given population), would the county boards and clubs be able to fund the remainder to fully implement the model. I dont think they would to be honest. There are of course some clubs in Dublin of note with great facilities, you mention some of the high profile ones, but they are often exceptions rather then the rule, the cast majority of clubs in Dublin wouldn't be loaded by any manner or means and live as hand to mouth as many other rurally. I would accept though there are massive clubs in Dublin with great resources, but they are few rather then the norm. Im sure counties have looked at and said how can we try and do what Dublin do, truth is Dublin is unique on a number of fronts, maybe Galway and Cork, and other city counties could give a fair whack a different solution needs to be found for rural counties, i do however think some great work in being done ruraly, particularly in Kerry,Donegal and Mayo, they have some natural advantages other counties dont, like high participation rates. Dublin can only dream of participation rates like Kerry, i do often feel that the dynamic between clubs, county board isnt as healthy as is it in Dublin parasitically when it comes to finance and a communal system. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 28/07/2019 10:34:53 2217442 Link 8 |
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https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/wehgbiitifzhopzeoepz.pdf There are projects taking place to do those sorts of things over the country. Look at the Sligo have a ball program. Cork 'Monster' blitzes Longford's initiative to get under 14 and under 16 players getting more 15 a side games. Those initiatives are being funded by the GAA games development. There are different challenges across the country and good work being done. To be honest the negative publicity about Dublin's funding really is taking away from that good work elsewhere. It's going to hurt volunteer rates probably. Why should I help out coaching all the money goes to Dublin. No it doesn't, there's loads to be done wherever you are and there's support to do it. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 28/07/2019 11:08:00 2217469 Link 12 |
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I wouldn't regard it as success. I've just worked hard and that can help you along, a bit like our senior footballers. Although some with a chip on their shoulder will always deny that it's down to hard work. C'est la vie though!!
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 28/07/2019 11:41:26 2217488 Link 8 |
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I dont know who wrote this. There seems to be question mark who did. I dont what to get involved with that . But the point which u hear allot that this was an extraordinary anomaly in Meath gaa history which it was but 4 All Irelands in 12 years but it was an extraordinary anomaly in gaelic football history. Meath winning 4 All Irelands and reaching 7 All Ireland finals outside kerry and Dublin is the second most sucessful period any county has ever had in 130 years , in the history of gaelic football. The top 4 most sucessful eras / periods outside kerry and Dublin, in 130 years , in the history of gaelic football ever are 1 Cavan winning 5 All Irelands out of 9 All Ireland finals in 19 years 1933 to 1952 2 Meath winning 4 All Irelands out of 7 All Ireland finals in 14 years 1986 to 2001 3 Wexford winning 4 All Irelands out of 6 All Ireland finals in 6 years 1913 to 1918. 4 Galway win 4 All Irelands in 4 All Ireland finals in 10 years 1956 to 1966. Meath winning 4 All Irelands reaching 7 All Ireland finals winning 3 national league titles and 8 leinster titles in 14 years is the one of the most successful period any county has in the history of gaelic football ever. The only periods more sucessful would have been kerry 1900s, 1920s 1930s , kerry 1975 to 1986 and Dublin in this decade and 1900s and Cavan in 40s and 50s. So it was an anomaly in gaelic football history the sucess Meath had with 4 All Ireland wins. The Top 7 most sucessful eras in gaelic football history since 1920s, foundation of Irish state 1 Kerry 1924 to 1940 kerry 9 All Ireland wins in 16 years. 9 All Ireland wins in 11 All Ireland finals. 2 kerry 1975 to 1986. 8 All Ireland wins in 10 All Ireland finals in 12 years. 3 Dublin this decade 6 All Ireland wins out of 6 All Ireland finals 4 kerry 6 All Ireland wins in 12 years 6 All Ireland wins out of 9 All Ireland finals 1997 to 2009 5 Cavan 5 All Ireland wins in 19 years 5 All Ireland wins out 9 All Ireland finals between 1933 to 1952 6 Meath 4 All Ireland wins out of 7 All Ireland final in 14 years 1986 to 2001 7 Galway 4 All Ireland wins out of 4 All Ireland finals in 10 years , 1956 to 1966 2 Secondly Meath did overachieve under Boylan but he was just continuing a tradition of overachieving. Meath have overachieved for 90 years from 1930 to 2010. Before 1930 Meath was a div 3 or div 4 county. In the first 50 years from 1880s to 1930 the 4 most consistently sucessful counties who were pushing for Sam every decade from 1880s to 1930 were kerry Dublin Kildare and Cavan. After 1930 the counties that were most consistent sucessful counties , All Ireland contenders in every decade for 90 years from 1930 to 2010 were kerry Dublin Cork Galway and Meath. This the only decade Meath havent reached All Ireland final since 1930s. This is the first decade Galway havent reached an All Ireland final since 1900 . Let look at those sucessful counties in that 90 year period the top 6 were 1 kerry 2 Dublin 3 Meath 4 Galway 5 Cork in order of sucess. Kerry are a genius of a county. The other three there is no surprise that Dublin Cork or Galway were the most sucessful counties winning All Irelands and pushing for Sam every decade is not a surprise. Dublin Cork and Galway are centres of economic social and culture in their parts of Ireland. Dublin Cork and Galway are the most powerful most famous most important counties in Irish society or Irish life. The county that standouts is Meath. Meath had a lower population then Mayo when they beat Mayo in 1996. Meath was when Meath won 7 All Irelands an predominantly rural midlands county that was outside the top ten or 12 in Irish life or Irish society. Meath overachieved for 90 years . U look at Meath population resources the part of Ireland it came from and it all was overachievement. The county which is identical to Meath in terms of population, landscape , prominence in the country would be kildare. In 90 years Kildare played 3 senior All Ireland final , Meath in 15 senior All Ireland finals , kildare won 0 senior All Irelands, Meath won 7 senior All Ireland finals, kildare have won 0 national league div 1 finals , Meath won 7 . Kildare won 6 senior leinsters , Meath won 20 leinster from 1930 to 2010. The best way to show how Meath overachieved was Meath went toe to toe with Dublin 90 years. Dublin won 9 All Irelands Between 1930 to 2010. Meath won 7 All Irelands in the same period. Meath and Dublin won 1 All Ireland apiece in each decade 1940s , 1950s and 1960s . Dublin won 3 in the 70s. But Meath won 2 in 80s and 2 in 90s , Dublin won 1 in 80s and 1 in 90s. Both won 0 All Irelands in 00s. As I said Meath went toe to toe with Dublin from 1930 to 2010. Meath overachieved, Meath were overachieving even before Boylan. 3 Thirdly Boylan was hugely sucessful only Mick Dwyer and Jim Galvin have been more sucessful. But by staying manager for two decades meant he was in charge of two generations of Meath footballers. As I said every generation of Meath footballers from 1930 to 2010 were All Ireland contenders. If he was charge of any other era 1930s 1940s 1950s 1960s 1970s he would have had serious talent also and All Ireland contenders in every one of those decades. In 1930s Meath won leinster titles and national league div 1 title and reached All Ireland senior final In the 1940s Meath won leinster titles and National league div 1 title and an All Ireland senior title In the 1950s Meath won leinster titles and National league div 1 title and won All Ireland senior title In the 1960s Meath won leinster titles and All Ireland senior title In the 1970s Meath won leinster title and National league division 1 title and reached All Ireland senior final In the 1980s Meath won leinster titles and National league div 1 title and won 2 All Ireland senior titles In the 1990s Meath won leinster titles and 2 national league division 1 titles and 2 All Ireland senior titles In the 00s Meath won leinster title and reached All Ireland senior football final. So yes Boylan got Meath to unprecedented number of All Ireland senior finals in short period. Meath reached 7 All Irelands in 14 years between 1987 to 2001. But Meath also reached 6 All Irelands in 18 years beteeen 1949 to 1967 winning 3. It was not that faraway from another era. Boylan did get every drop of talent and sucess of those two generations of Meath players. But as you look above and examine the stats it shows he was just continuing on the level of sucess what every other generation of Meath footballer was achieveing and just pushed up a level .Yes Boylan was the most sucessful era and number of final reached was unprecedented and he doubled All Ireland wins in 80s and 90s but as the above stats showed Meath were consistent All Ireland contenders and one of most sucessful counties in the decades before Boylan became manager. The only 5 counties which were most sucessful consistently from 1930 to 1980 were kerry Dublin Cork Galway and Meath. He was continuing a very strong tradition. But yes his era was the most sucessful . But if Boylan.was in charge of Meath in 1930s 1940s 1950s 1960s and 1970s he would have had serious football talent and players who were All Ireland winners or All Ireland contenders. If Boylan was in charge in 30s 40s 50s 60s or 70s he would have won 2 or maybe more All Irelands in any of these decade also. Meath won 1 All Ireland 40s and lost 1 All Ireland in 40s. Boylan could have won 2 All Irelands in 40s. Meath won 1 All Ireland in 50s and lost 1 All Ireland in 50s. Boylan could have won 2 All Irelands in 50s. Meath won 1 All Ireland in 60s and lost 1 All Ireland in 1960s. Boylan could have won 2 All Irelands in 60s. In 1970s Meath reached 1 All Ireland final in 1970s. Beat the great Dublin team of 70s in a national div 1 league final and went toe to toe with Dublin in 3 leinster finals and were robbed in 1977 leinster final by two in a row Dubs. Meath had players good enough to win Sam in 70s. Boylan could have won 2 All Irelands in 1970s in 1970 when Meath reached All Ireland final and the years 1974 to 1977 Meath were good enough to beat Dublin and pushed Dublin so hard the year Dubs won a second Sam. It would not have been impossible for Boylan to win 2 All Irelands in 70s eg 1970 and 1974 to 1977. So Boylan did in 80s and 90s it would not be incredible to say he could have done the same in 40s 50s and 60s as he had the players. But that didnt happen thats just a sidenote. Finally because of how many All Irelands Cody and Shefflin have won or Dubs have won in this decade it gives the idea that 1 or 2 All Ireland wins is nothing special. Winning an All Ireland, one All Ireland is an exceptional achievement. Even Dublin winning 1 All Ireland was exceptional achievement before this decade. Only Tipp Cork and kilkenny hurlers and kerry Footballers were winning bucket loads of All Irelands. And even Tipp and Cork are no longer winning such a high rate. No Cork hurling All Ireland win in 15 years. Tipp winning 1 All Ireland in 70s , 1 in 80s , 1 in 90s, 1 in 00s and 2 in this decade. No two in a row in 50 years for Tipp. Only kerry Footballers and kilkenny hurlers have been consistently winning multiple All Ireland. Take Armagh a great great football county. From Crossmaglen to Joe kiernan. Armagh have won 1 All Ireland title. That title was an exceptional achievement by exceptional team. Monaghan are a great great football county from Sean McGague to Ciaran McManus but have never won an All Ireland. Winning even 1 All Ireland even for Dublin not to long ago was an exceptional achievement. A average midlands county like Meath with population smaller then Mayo a rural agricultural county winning 7 All Irelands in 50 years was a great achievement. Only kerry or Dublin won more in the same period or in the last 90 years. Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 28/07/2019 18:06:58 2217737 Link 12 |
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Croke Park gives money to provincial councils. That's Leinster, Munster, Connaught, Ulster and Dublin. Why is this funding model reflective of the inter county structure? 4 Provincial councils have inter county teams in the Championship. Why doesn't the 5th province? legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7827 - 31/07/2019 17:49:22 2219186 Link 3 |
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Why were a load of the posts taken down? Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 31/07/2019 18:13:27 2219190 Link 11 |
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Fair enough if I am wrong on the funding. But that leads to another problem. Again not dublins fault but by virtue of population and the fact that they really have done a top class job on structures etc their domination of football looks set to continue. I don't think breaking the country up works as we need the rivalries that have built up over the years. Maybe a few more transfers out using the granny rule might help! I think we do need the funding increased for certain countries. Not the kildares, galways, cork, mayo etc. They are big enough to sort themselves out. The smaller counties need a lot more on a multi annual basis so they can get structures up to scratch. Maybe certain counties should get a designation and get 5 years of funding to get things in order, fully audited and controlled by CP to ensure its not wasted? Just an idea but we need to increase competitiveness Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1826 - 02/08/2019 00:13:40 2219622 Link 0 |
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I agree there are huge concerns over the competiveness of the inter-county game going forward because of just how much Dublin is dominant in Ireland as a whole. I actually think the GAA are to a certain extent victims of the situation also. The GAA problem is one facet of the general struggles facing rural Ireland currently. It is sad to see. I think Ireland needs at least another strong economic centre outside of Dublin to stem the flow of jobs and people into the capital. The best way I can see it being done is to create strong transport links between Cork, Limerick and Galway so that they become a combined economic centre. It's a similar sort of idea to the Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds wider area is the second economic centre of the UK. The South West could really benefit. There'd still be problems with the Northwest and Midlands but it'd be a start at least. The GAA as an organisation with a revenue of only 65m or so per annum only has so much influence. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 02/08/2019 10:52:03 2219686 Link 10 |
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Dublin won 1 U21 title in 45 years and now are on the verge of winning 5 in 9 years valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 02/08/2019 14:14:19 2219772 Link 7 |
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Well is Kerry going for 6 minor titles in a row this year also down to financial resources? It's a simplistic view isn't it?
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 02/08/2019 23:36:01 2219939 Link 8 |
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Fair play to Whammo for making the effort to try to find figures as there is not many figures available for participation rates. But as discussed on the other thread on a similar topic on this website I would not be taking these figures completely at face value. The figures for births are surely true (these would be taken off national statistics) but there is little detail how they actually came to the figures/ estimates for Go Games participation rates. They have also picked the Go Games age groups (before they start playing actual matches at U12 age group) which is a very transient underage group where kids come and go and don't necessarily play every week. Remember there would be an element of spin to this report, it is a plan which was got together and used to justify funding for Dublin. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1338 - 03/08/2019 10:50:35 2220002 Link 0 |
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I think every thing you say is fair here. I'd also like to add that I do agree there are problems with the competitiveness in football and that I'd be shocked if it turned out to be a flash in the pan. I just disagree that it's because there's been "unfair" financial assistance to Dublin or certainly the extent of it is greatly exaggerated. I think it's because Dublin were able to get themselves more organised and that the money from central council facilitated this process. I think the GAA as an organisation with a mission to promote our games are duty bound to provide this assistance. I think it's good that Dublin's funding has been scaled back, it's down about 15% but there are still large numbers of kids that should be coached in Dublin and the greatest opportunity for new growth is in Dublin, East Leinster and Belfast. The preoccupation with money also fogs the other advantages Dublin have. The population advantage that they have will only become more pronounced over time. There will likely be a growing percentage of their population participating in GAA. I personally don't like the idea of a split of Dublin but I can understand the argument for it. There's another huge advantage that Dublin has and that's the size of their clubs. The sheer weight of numbers creates such a competitive environment for players at club level. Kilmacud have roughly 200 kids per 2 year age grade. They could field 10 teams per age grade. The competition levels that exist there just to play for the top team in one club is going to be huge. You have that competitive environment from that early age in Dublin it's going to necessitate players to get the most out of their abilities. It's a wide net they have also. The Kilmacud Crokes story is replicated across the city to less extreme degrees. St Vincent's, Ballymun, Ballyboden, Na Fianna, Saint Brigids, Cuala and emerging clubs like Templelogue Synge Street and Castleknock will have huge numbers coming through also. The underage environment in Dublin is just the perfect breeding ground for getting elite senior players. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 03/08/2019 13:15:01 2220047 Link 11 |
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I think the development squad model is detrimental to the development of players in lower population counties. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 03/08/2019 13:31:53 2220058 Link 9 |