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Dublin's Success Not Down To Money - GAA President

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Replying To clondalkindub: "Gerry nearly all our team had parents or relations who played county or sports at a top level , these guys were going to make it no matter what. Money has nothing got to do with it. Our we not allowed have a great team like Kerry and Kilkenny have?" Do you know the lotto numbers for the weekend? Seeing as you can tell the future? This idea of peoples parents being top level sports people meaning their chilrden will be as well have been disproven time and time again, but sure it's Dublin so it must be different oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 13/06/2019 08:59:30 2194251 Link
Replying To Joxer: "Peter Sweeney wrote a good piece on the funding levels a few months ago "But this isn't a simple matter of money. The right personnel were either in place, such as Dublin GAA CEO John Costello and Ger O'Connor, who was the long-serving head of coaching, or put in place, like Tomás Quinn as commercial manager. And if it was all about the green stuff, Dublin's hurlers would be knocking off All-Irelands by now too, but they're not. And they're not particularly close either. It can be argued too that their senior footballers are enjoying a once-in-a-generation group of players under a once-in-a-lifetime manager. Clubs, who have to pay half of their full-time GPO's €36,000 salary, with the rest coming from the GAA, have to fund-raise tirelessly and ensure that they were getting value for money and up their game in terms of recruitment and retention" If only it was as simplistic as money = success." There is no doubt everything was brilliantly executed and managed. I don't think anybody is questioning that at all. How many counties can afford a paid CEO, Head of Coaching and Commercial Manager though? As for the hurlers, they have improved arguably more than the footballers but were coming from a much much lower base and it was always going to take longer. Success will come there eventually I have no doubt. You probably have several players on the football team that would make the hurling team as well which stymies the overall potential, they have the opposite problem in the likes of Tipp. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 13/06/2019 10:19:14 2194269 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "Gerry nearly all our team had parents or relations who played county or sports at a top level , these guys were going to make it no matter what. Money has nothing got to do with it. Our we not allowed have a great team like Kerry and Kilkenny have?" I agree with this. The majority of this Dublin panel would have come through anyways. Dublin have always been a top team but the fact an extra special golden generation have come through in the last decade have brought them to a level never seen before. Their rise can also be put down to great management teams under Pat Gilroy and Jim Gavin who both have brought levels of professionalism that wasn't there before. That said even Dublin supporters much look at the financial support Dublin GAA get compared to other counties and cringe. Then you look at little things at how Dublin get to use Croke Park as a home venue and play more games there than any other team and you wonder why give them any sort of advantage that they don't even need. I look at my own county, who I'd consider a top 8 team, and they have played in Croke Park 3 times in the last 2 years and twice was against Dublin. How many times have Dublin played in Croke Park in the last 2 years not including all ireland semi finals and finals? This is a great Dublin team, possibly the best of all time. They don't need advantages over other counties but for some reason they get them. Do I think these advantages make a huge difference? Probably not to this particular Dublin team but we often hear it's up to the other counties to close the gap and get their own house in order but if the current financial backing of Dublin GAA remains as is and the Croke Park issue remains unchanged then Dublin will always have an advantage over others and it will be impossible to close gaps. They might lose the odd all ireland but they won't lose too many. Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 13/06/2019 10:24:39 2194274 Link
We once tried that Voluntary Coach malarkey. Was grand in theory but unfortunately we couldn't get enough voluntary kit suppliers, voluntary providers of infrastructure etc etc on board so it fell away to an arse. Now we just let the kids turn up at our club and run around the field themselves for an hour or two of an evening - well, those who have voluntary parents happy to drive them to the place. The younger ones are useless though as their legs are too short to reach the pedals on the lawnmower so we have made a hole in the fence and hope that a few voluntary sheep will make their way in to get the grass to a respectable level. Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 13/06/2019 10:26:49 2194277 Link
Replying To St.Conleth: " Replying To Royal.Legend: "[quote=Jack_Goff: "link Interesting interview with John Horan Regarding Dublin. A few snippets. "GAA president John Horan has said the chief reason for Dublin's dominance is the work of voluntary coaches and not the funding the county has received over the past decade." "Almost €18m in games development funding, with Kildare and Meath receiving just over €1m over the same period. Accounting for population the rate of investment in Dublin was still more than double that of any other county". Good to get the view of the president who doesn't believe the amount of money invested into the development of underage players has much effect on counties like Meath, Kildare or Dublin." Is it just me or is anyone else fed up with all these anti dubs treads been set up almost daily by the exact same posters spreading the exact same nonsense." You seem to have 'a agenda' against Jack??"]Glass half empty people arnt my cup of tea, Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 665 - 13/06/2019 10:43:42 2194290 Link
This craic again. Firstly Dublin are amazing, no doubt, the best and most consistent squad we have ever seen but any Dublin posters claiming Horan is right are just ignoring the facts. And don't want to listen. My favourite soudbite from Horan recently is when he talks about the full time coaches who go into the schools. He said the clubs are the ones who back these coaches, as if they are nothing to do with the overall funding ladder. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 13/06/2019 10:50:34 2194295 Link
Sure if it's all down to the volunteers and nothing to do with the financial backing, then the GAA can withdraw all of their funding and it won't make any difference. iarmhi_an_mhaith (Westmeath) - Posts: 268 - 13/06/2019 10:59:14 2194300 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "Gerry nearly all our team had parents or relations who played county or sports at a top level , these guys were going to make it no matter what. Money has nothing got to do with it. Our we not allowed have a great team like Kerry and Kilkenny have?" Clon ye went from being hammered by 17 points by us this time 10 years ago to now achieving the second ever 5 in a row, and you say money hasn't anything to do with it? Ye can deny it all ye want but everyone knows it's all to do with the money. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 13/06/2019 11:01:04 2194301 Link
Replying To Jack_Goff: "At least those counties did it while not receiving 18 times the development funding of other rivals, massive sponsorship deals and sports Council grants. Pound for pound far better achievements on their part." So your telling me Ciaran Kilkenny is only good cause of money even doh his cousin is the famous Purcell player from Galway ? Dean Rocks dad is Barney Con's dad played for Dublin James McCarthy's dad played for Dublin Kev mac's dad played for Dublin Brian Fenton's monther and uncles swam for Ireland Jacks dad played for Dublin Darren Gavin's dad is an all Ireland winner with Galway 98 Mannion played international soccer his cousins play county for Roscommon That's just a few players off the top of my head , these guys were going to make it no matter what stick you hit us with it was in there DNA there naturally talented. If it's all down to money why aren't we cleaning up at every level ? We won a '21 a few years back but if Clifford wasn't still minor and O Conor wasn't in Oz we wouldn't have won it. I'm up at the nursery's every Saturday the coaching is abc stuff hit the tyre with the hurl, run around , it's just a laugh to get the kids out there's no mad rocket science behind all this. The money pumped into Dublin was to get the game going again nothing to do with making Dublin a great team. The big clubs in Dublin are still the same big clubs 20 years ago nothing's really changed the same teams are still winning money has made no difference. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 13/06/2019 11:02:29 2194302 Link
The only palatable solution it seems is to stop funding the 1.4 mill people in Dublin the 1.3mill to fund games development. I wouldn't be opposed to the challenge of letting Dublin loose from the communial model to become self sustainable by a change in the funding model. Perhaps its also an idea if the GAA provided the formula for how they actually allocate funds as well in any transition. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 13/06/2019 11:04:46 2194303 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Clon ye went from being hammered by 17 points by us this time 10 years ago to now achieving the second ever 5 in a row, and you say money hasn't anything to do with it? Ye can deny it all ye want but everyone knows it's all to do with the money." You went from getting hammered by Down in 91 and Meath in 01 to dominating for the next 20 years it happens. Donegal got hammered by Cork in '10 two years later they were champions, again it happens. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 13/06/2019 11:19:11 2194313 Link
Not only should Dublin be losing any money they get from central funds, they should be contributing some of their sponsorship money back to the central pot of money. icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 13/06/2019 11:20:27 2194315 Link
2010 lost to Cork, Meath (hammered by Meath) 2011 won Sam by 1pt a game Dublin could have easily lost and took an epic come back against the odds to turn the tide against an aging Kerry side, also could have easily lost semifinal to Donegal. 2012 soundly beaten by Mayo, struggled badly across the year in both league and championship. A poor year and Gilroy resigns. Both Mayo and Donegal (great side in 2012) better teams compared to Dublin. 2013 won Sam by the slimmest margin could have easily lost both semifinal and final. Semifinal being one of the greatest games of football seen in many decades. 2014 soundly beaten by Donegal in fact were very much embarrassed on the day, a massive amount of slagging came Dublin's way. 2015 brought to replay, could/should have lost against Mayo, won Sam by a score after a poor Kerry performance 2016 epic semifinal win, could have easily lost. brought to replay by Mayo, epic finals that Dublin could/should have lost to Mayo 2017 epic final could have easily lost to Mayo 2018 Dublin's first and only handy enough Sam win this decade, a poor enough championship. *2016/2017 hugely costly missed free kicks by Mayo Dublin have won two finals with late frees The actual games themselves demonstrate that there's almost a collective amnesia to just how competitive it's been across this decade and that there's a strange mass cult of self pity that's descended despite the ultimate compliment nature of football seen across this decade. It's as if Dublin are an unstoppable machine when they are anything but.. it's taken massive endeavor and really Dublin shouldn't be going for 5 in a row, they simply shouldn't. I've been at 90% of these games. I've stood there thinking.. "feck it we've lost this" It's your own fault for not putting Dublin to the sword. It's undeniably fact that for all the invincible hype nonsense that Dublin have been there for the taking on many occasions across this decade. Some teams have put Dublin on their collective areses while others have failed to take the opportunity The collection of Sams simply does not tell the full true story and this aura of invincibility for me is a form of mass hysteria based around a hard time for rural, it's a projection of frustration. jimbodub (Dublin)* - Posts: 20598 - 13/06/2019 11:23:05 2194319 Link
We're a Stephen Cluxton injury or suspension away from being in big trouble anything happens to him in the bigger games and things could change very quickly and money won't save us. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 13/06/2019 11:36:20 2194327 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "The only palatable solution it seems is to stop funding the 1.4 mill people in Dublin the 1.3mill to fund games development. I wouldn't be opposed to the challenge of letting Dublin loose from the communial model to become self sustainable by a change in the funding model. Perhaps its also an idea if the GAA provided the formula for how they actually allocate funds as well in any transition." I would imagine the funding model is whatever you got last year + / - a couple of percent either way, that's usually the way things work once costs start to get entrenched. I don't think the funding should be withdrawn but it would be great if the same opportunities could be given to other areas. I haven't looked at figures or anything but given the success of the programme surely it is now time to take the Dublin model and roll it out (carefully) elsewhere? GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 13/06/2019 11:38:40 2194328 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "We're a Stephen Cluxton injury or suspension away from being in big trouble anything happens to him in the bigger games and things could change very quickly and money won't save us." Exactly. Stephen Cluxton was there in '09 for the spanking by Kerry. I'd love to know how money has directly contributed to his improvement as a player over the years. TrueBlue35 (Dublin) - Posts: 206 - 13/06/2019 11:42:16 2194330 Link
Dublin had all the same supposed advantages in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2016 = Lost big games in Croke Park (x 2 in 2010) > Supposed advantages quickly forgotten about Dublin had all the same supposed advantages in 2011, 2013, 2015 (replay), 2016 (replay), 2017, 2018 = Won big games in Croke Park (x 2 replays) > Supposed advantages are the reason for success jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20598 - 13/06/2019 11:43:54 2194333 Link
See, it's in a position now where I am not sure what the solution to it all is. There is no doubt that Dublin for years were under performing at County (and club) level given the size/population of the County and needed assistance to get the GAA scene rejuvenated, kids out etc - I know as I see the problems that have faced our own County when it comes to GAA in Belfast. The GAA invested heavily in Dublin and gave them the opportunity to get their arse in gear and there is no doubt that it still needed the spade work to be done on the ground which evidently it was put in. The problem though is that before this Dublin already had advantages in population, number of major businesses (potential sponsors) located in the County, to name a couple, so when the success started to come along on the field then tapping in to these 'resources' was always going to be easier. Kids aspire to be part of that winning team and companies want their brand to be seen on a successful side. We now see more numbers involved at the playing front and a lot more money coming in to the County from major sponsors which has put Dublin in a position where they are nearly untouchable and the only ones who can beat Dublin are Dublin themselves (if they take their eye off the ball from a setup point). Even if the GAA pulled back on the funding which still goes from HQ to Dublin and distributed it more around the other Counties I seriously don't see how the gap can be closed. I said years ago on here that they were creating a monster and I believe like Dr Frankenstein they have. And one important thing to note - I don't blame Dublin for this. They have taken what was afforded to them and done the best they could with it. I blame the shortsightedness of the GAA in not being able to have the foresight to see what was evident to many all those years ago when they decided to invest as heavily as they did and still do. But the one thing I suppose I don't get is the mentality of some Dublin fans who just see the success and silverware and can't see the long term damage that has already been done. It's all well and good whipping teams in Leinster and winning All Ireland after All Ireland but do these fans not see the cost? Do they not realise that probably for the first time in the history of the Association there is a serious danger as to where this is all going to end - or how? Do they not look at the fabric of the Organisation, the cornerstones on which it was founded and wonder how have we got to the stage where elitism and finances seem to dictate the direction which it is going? I've said on here many times over the last year or two that I thank God for the Club as it still has all the values and what is good about the GAA - the true amateur ethos where it is about community and volunteers. In my view they have already ruined the Inter County scene and I just hope and pray that they don't end up ruining the Club as well. Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 13/06/2019 11:44:03 2194334 Link
Replying To Mobot: "I agree with this. The majority of this Dublin panel would have come through anyways. Dublin have always been a top team but the fact an extra special golden generation have come through in the last decade have brought them to a level never seen before. Their rise can also be put down to great management teams under Pat Gilroy and Jim Gavin who both have brought levels of professionalism that wasn't there before. That said even Dublin supporters much look at the financial support Dublin GAA get compared to other counties and cringe. Then you look at little things at how Dublin get to use Croke Park as a home venue and play more games there than any other team and you wonder why give them any sort of advantage that they don't even need. I look at my own county, who I'd consider a top 8 team, and they have played in Croke Park 3 times in the last 2 years and twice was against Dublin. How many times have Dublin played in Croke Park in the last 2 years not including all ireland semi finals and finals? This is a great Dublin team, possibly the best of all time. They don't need advantages over other counties but for some reason they get them. Do I think these advantages make a huge difference? Probably not to this particular Dublin team but we often hear it's up to the other counties to close the gap and get their own house in order but if the current financial backing of Dublin GAA remains as is and the Croke Park issue remains unchanged then Dublin will always have an advantage over others and it will be impossible to close gaps. They might lose the odd all ireland but they won't lose too many." Nail on the head. Its a golden generation but they are also getting a leg up (commerical money, croke park access). All county teams should be treated equally. The commercial funds pulled in that Dublin can get is far superior to their next rival. If the GAA want to do fix leinster and get the race for sam competitive they have to set a framework for all counties to mimic the Dublin commercial set up. Max the incoming funding and ensure the funding to each inter county set up is equal. Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 238 - 13/06/2019 11:58:31 2194341 Link
Replying To thegundy: "Yep and Trump is not a liar" How there you attack our good friend Trump ;-D PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 13/06/2019 12:04:14 2194346 Link