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The majority of them Connacht players are from somewhere other than Connacht, as the facilities are so bad in the province it is very difficult for underage players to come through. Not a single 4G rugby pitch for them to train on in Connacht, some schools in Dublin have two 4G pitches. In comparison GAA facilities across the province have improved beyond all recognition in the last 20 years. Saying entrance to GAA games should be less than rugby because they don't pay players is a very simplistic way of looking at things.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2261 - 1/21/19 11:22:28 AM There is very few schools in Dublin with 4G pitches never mind two of them and you are incorrect. there is 4G pitches in Connacht. Creggs in Roscommon have one. and plans already in place for several more across province.
But i do agree saying ticket prices should be lower because players arent paid is very simplistic.
Connacht clubs are producing many players for the pro game and the number of clubs with assocations to pro players in terms of developing them is much higher than any time before. Clubs like An Ghaeltacht, Creggs etc
How else do you compare two different sports then Soma? I would have thought the fact that one is amateur and the other professional is the first place you start as it is the most obvious one (to me anyway). And if clubs in AI League rugby are charging a tenner a head in to their games and €30 plus in to the Provincial Pro14s and the likes then not having decent facilities is down to their own lack of planning/foresight and nothing else (especially if the portion of that which goes towards payment of players isn't relevant). I don't know about GAA clubs throughout Ireland but I do know that any club around home who have done up their facilities in the last 10 years or more have done so with hard work, fundraising and grants from external organisations (lottery fund, local Council etc) with little if any coming from HQ.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 3711 - 1/21/19 12:11:46 PMMany clubs in AIL have big running costs and costs of simply maintaining facilities already there is hard enough at keeping entrance to a tenner.
I'm not sure what point you are making there Offside, I was just pointing out that most of the Connacht players are not from Connacht and one of the main reasons is the rugby facilities for youth in the province are rubbish, light years behind what even schools in Dublin have. As a result, a lot of the Connacht squad is made up of lads from Dublin.
Genuine question for you Offside, if you don't think the money the GAA is collecting is being spent on players, clubs or facilities, where do you think it goes?
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2261 - 1/21/19 12:57:59 PMIt isnt necessarily to do with facilities. The schools in Dublin you are comparing clubs to are fee paying schools with past pupils providing extensive resources towards redevelopment/development of facilities but Connacht have large number of players from leinster, munster because there is far more players playing there and therefore standards are higher in other provinces.
As an Antrim man entrance to each of your countys league games will be £10 again this year so it could be said that is helping the weaker counties a little.
I had a look at the price of membership for a 12 year old for 3 clubs in Galway city. The hurling club was €50, the rugby club was €130 and the soccer club €150. When people say none of this money goes back to the clubs they should remember stuff like this, yes not every club gets a cheque each year but that doesn't mean they are not benefitting. Iv a young lad playing soccer here, even after paying membership he is not allowed on the pitch until he pays £3 each training, and £5 each match as the referee has to be paid. When last was a youngster in GAA asked to pay for the referee, I never heard of it in my day and hope it's still the same now. The criticism GAA gets is constant, I don't think people realise what a great service they provide to the country.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2261 - 1/21/19 3:33:42 PMof the other clubs in galway city for rugby you can get membership for much less than 130 and that club with that membership cost uses money for a lot of things during the year and theyre not charging kids for each training and dont charge per matches as refs dont get paid.
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 21/01/2019 16:11:51
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Replying To Soma: "As an Antrim man entrance to each of your countys league games will be £10 again this year so it could be said that is helping the weaker counties a little.
I had a look at the price of membership for a 12 year old for 3 clubs in Galway city. The hurling club was €50, the rugby club was €130 and the soccer club €150. When people say none of this money goes back to the clubs they should remember stuff like this, yes not every club gets a cheque each year but that doesn't mean they are not benefitting. Iv a young lad playing soccer here, even after paying membership he is not allowed on the pitch until he pays £3 each training, and £5 each match as the referee has to be paid. When last was a youngster in GAA asked to pay for the referee, I never heard of it in my day and hope it's still the same now. The criticism GAA gets is constant, I don't think people realise what a great service they provide to the country." The GAA gets criticism from the people who care and are members contributing their own time and money-its our association!. Making comparisons with other sports (who have poor organisation) when those sports have little in common with the GAA may add little to the debate. These other sports have few facilities and pay their top players. Clubs around the country have provided facilities, in the not too distant past, with little contributions from anyone except their own community. Two many people in the GAA getting paid at top level making poor decisions, or no decisions. Football managers at all levels, county and clubs destroying our games exercising more control than the chairman/chairwoman. The have recently decided on what rules we all should play by.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 21/01/2019 16:29:01
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When it comes to the value for money argument, I think its worth pointing out, or re-iterating, that this price hike is for league games, not championship. From a hurling perspective at least, league game attendance has been dwindling anyway. The secondary nature of competition is now likely to be compounded, given the demands of the new championship format, league matches this year are likely to be even less intense than they were. It really is just championship prep now, it has to be (if Tipp don't make the league knockout stages this year, but are better prepared for a more intense Championship in May, I'll be okay with it).
So in reality, its a price increase for games whose crowds have been dwindling anyway, played during the more inclement months of the year, in grounds with mostly poor spectator facilities (i.e. roofing that relies on the placebo affect), to watch games that are now really just going to be prep games for championship. Still worth seeing, but within reason. Because this is also on top of increased television coverage for games. There may actually be more incentive to not go to league games than ever before.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 21/01/2019 16:29:48
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Here is a link Don to an article by someone heavily involved in both Connacht and Irish underage rugby. Are you saying he is wrong on everything, including Creggs not having a 4G pitch? link
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/01/2019 16:34:29
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Replying To Uimhir.a.3.: "Clouding the issue with your 1 cent argument, whether people in leafy south Dublin have no issue with increases & would willingly hand over €20 for a roll, coffee & Mars bar, there are people around the country struggling on low incomes & who have to travel to Croke Park from outposts like Donegal, no Luas or Dart or regular bus & train schedules for them. The GAA showed so much disrespect to Donegal fans last year bringing them to Croke Park so late in the evening that some people weren't home till 12. These are the people who a 10% to 33% increase affects when they factor in food & fuel, not the prawn sandwich brigade in south Dublin. There is another Ireland to the one you obviously exist in." I think you are having two different arguments here. 1 it is important, as i illustrated percentages sometimes arent symptomatic of the actual scale e of the increase or proportion if expendable income. Clearly there are many comparisons to this debate, you are going for percentages, other lads going comparatively with other sports, others with average income and expendable income to the cost of living. Its a rich debate (pardon the pun) and i wouldn't be as linear in thinking as terms of percentages, im sorry if expanding the debate is clouding the issue.
The second argument, you are having is about is about the people of Dublin or a specific area and are clearly making presumptions and stereotypes, im not sure thats healthy online or in life in general. You are also making presumptions and stereotypes about people not from that area of Dublin, im sure there are people well off and not so well off both in the country and also in Dublin or other cites for that matter. I wouldn't be quick to label either personally, even if i was having a bit of craic in my comments, maybe i shouldnt as it seems to have triggered something in you, just breeds nothing healthy so ill leave it there.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 21/01/2019 17:01:35
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "When it comes to the value for money argument, I think its worth pointing out, or re-iterating, that this price hike is for league games, not championship. From a hurling perspective at least, league game attendance has been dwindling anyway. The secondary nature of competition is now likely to be compounded, given the demands of the new championship format, league matches this year are likely to be even less intense than they were. It really is just championship prep now, it has to be (if Tipp don't make the league knockout stages this year, but are better prepared for a more intense Championship in May, I'll be okay with it).
So in reality, its a price increase for games whose crowds have been dwindling anyway, played during the more inclement months of the year, in grounds with mostly poor spectator facilities (i.e. roofing that relies on the placebo affect), to watch games that are now really just going to be prep games for championship. Still worth seeing, but within reason. Because this is also on top of increased television coverage for games. There may actually be more incentive to not go to league games than ever before." Excellent post.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 21/01/2019 17:09:19
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Here is a link Don to an article by someone heavily involved in both Connacht and Irish underage rugby. Are you saying he is wrong on everything, including Creggs not having a 4G pitch? link
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2262 - 1/21/19 4:34:29 PM I will take the word of creggs club members on the quality of the pitch they have installed having been there several times this season over them.
And ive been heavily involved in connacht underage rugby through refereeing
DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 21/01/2019 17:30:07
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Replying To DonaldDuck: "Here is a link Don to an article by someone heavily involved in both Connacht and Irish underage rugby. Are you saying he is wrong on everything, including Creggs not having a 4G pitch? link
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2262 - 1/21/19 4:34:29 PM I will take the word of creggs club members on the quality of the pitch they have installed having been there several times this season over them.
And ive been heavily involved in connacht underage rugby through refereeing" You will argue with anything Don, regardless of what evidence may be provided to confirm you are wrong. Here is a link to connacht rugby on the new pitch in Creggs confirming it is 3G. link/ There are also many articles about the new 3G pitch in Creggs on the Internet found with a very simple search but you will continue to argue black is white.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/01/2019 17:40:45
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They have increased price of tickets for championship too, think its only the quarter final ticket price that hasnt changed but qualifiers, semi final and final have all increased
tommy132 (Mayo) - Posts: 601 - 21/01/2019 17:59:04
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Horan said: "We haven't raised our prices since 2011
Is he not wrong ......2 years ago it was €10 before match day and €15 on matchday....the €10 was raised last year
Also, the justification.....rules are being changed to improve the quality of the game, because fans are walking away.....and they are being attracted back by a price hike?
Scandalous
Cavan-Hero (Cavan) - Posts: 27 - 21/01/2019 17:59:58
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Replying To Soma: "The majority of them Connacht players are from somewhere other than Connacht, as the facilities are so bad in the province it is very difficult for underage players to come through. Not a single 4G rugby pitch for them to train on in Connacht, some schools in Dublin have two 4G pitches. In comparison GAA facilities across the province have improved beyond all recognition in the last 20 years. Saying entrance to GAA games should be less than rugby because they don't pay players is a very simplistic way of looking at things." Traditionally Connacht has one rugby school in comparison to plenty in Leinster, including Tipperary! Those Leinster schools are not stuck for cash nor will be anytime soon. Arguably Rugby is the fourth most popular sport in Connacht but IRFU are making strides in primary schools in non-rugby traditional areas, if that's t hge right term? Connacht are well behind the curve compared t ok other provinces, not too long ago they were nearly extinct. A lack of a 3G or 4G hasn't hindered their slowish progress.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 21/01/2019 20:05:38
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Replying To Cavan-Hero: "Horan said: "We haven't raised our prices since 2011
Is he not wrong ......2 years ago it was €10 before match day and €15 on matchday....the €10 was raised last year
Also, the justification.....rules are being changed to improve the quality of the game, because fans are walking away.....and they are being attracted back by a price hike?
Scandalous" He also says the economy is on the up :-)
Maybe inside the pale john but down here things aren't on the up.
I think john needs to travel beyond the red cow.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 21/01/2019 20:42:58
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "When it comes to the value for money argument, I think its worth pointing out, or re-iterating, that this price hike is for league games, not championship. From a hurling perspective at least, league game attendance has been dwindling anyway. The secondary nature of competition is now likely to be compounded, given the demands of the new championship format, league matches this year are likely to be even less intense than they were. It really is just championship prep now, it has to be (if Tipp don't make the league knockout stages this year, but are better prepared for a more intense Championship in May, I'll be okay with it).
So in reality, its a price increase for games whose crowds have been dwindling anyway, played during the more inclement months of the year, in grounds with mostly poor spectator facilities (i.e. roofing that relies on the placebo affect), to watch games that are now really just going to be prep games for championship. Still worth seeing, but within reason. Because this is also on top of increased television coverage for games. There may actually be more incentive to not go to league games than ever before." Completely inaccurate post, go & check the facts. Price increases are introduced for C'ship, all qualifiers, All Irl semi finals & finals, the only C'ship ticket games not increased were All Irl quarter finals. If I was an executive of Allianz reading your post I would be considering the worth of the huge sponsorship given if your mindset on the league was GAA thinking at the top as well.
Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 21/01/2019 21:28:56
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Money and the GAA! Very few other things raise the hackles as easily - at any time of the year! The increase in the number of TV matches is I believe going to have an impact on attendances...
Monies need to be raised for the teams at county level to be prepared to the level we as supporters want them. Sponsorship is limited and counties are continually stretched to provide enough money to keep all the squads prepared to the expected level.
Where does the money come from? One avenue is national league and championship matches. That is a fact. Each county has GDA'S and these need to be paid as well. Many counties have full time paid officials who administer the counties and take away the huge burden of work that traditionally was done by overworked volunteers- and at club level it is getting harder to get people to act in club positions as the workload including fund raising is getting harder.
Again I can see why there is an increase in charges. They are essential if the GAA is going to be able to provide some assistance to clubs and counties. PUC is a disaster as it is again going to be a huge drain on the national coffers and other areas for expenditure will now have to be postponed.
Other pitches - Navan, Waterford and others are also going to be looking for money... There is no end to it.
Player welfare is also a huge drain on hard earned resources.
Solutions -?
I don't think the GAA Is greedy. I think we need the monies to keep facilities teams and squads moving in the right direction. This decision was taken by OUR representatives at Central Council - GAA people who have their finger on the pulse.
Looking at what kids are paying to soccer clubs in membership - and for each match and training session would make you ask are we in the GAA charging enough in membership and for matches. Perhaps the current debate might spur a further re look from clubs as to how we currently finance ourselves..
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 21/01/2019 21:34:39
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "He also says the economy is on the up :-)
Maybe inside the pale john but down here things aren't on the up.
I think john needs to travel beyond the red cow." I thought it was a speech from one of the spin merchants in the Daíl I was reading, the economy is booming we can all afford it ? totally out of touch with reality outside of Dublin.
Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 21/01/2019 21:39:06
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "He also says the economy is on the up :-)
Maybe inside the pale john but down here things aren't on the up.
I think john needs to travel beyond the red cow." On this rare occasion I actually agree with you ;) He must be getting lines like that from the King of spin himself Mr Varadkar.
Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 21/01/2019 21:56:55
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Replying To Uimhir.a.3.: "Completely inaccurate post, go & check the facts. Price increases are introduced for C'ship, all qualifiers, All Irl semi finals & finals, the only C'ship ticket games not increased were All Irl quarter finals. If I was an executive of Allianz reading your post I would be considering the worth of the huge sponsorship given if your mindset on the league was GAA thinking at the top as well." You're right, championship prices are going u as well. But the subject of this thread, and the subject of the article the OP referenced (https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/294348), was the price hikes for league games. I should have clarified that, but I think my point still stands as to how it relates to the realities of the NHL. The league and championship are completely different, the same objections or rationalizations can't be applied to both.
As to my mindset on the league, first, it was an opinion, not a mindset. I didn't express an attitude to the NHL, just what I think the reality of it is. I'd love if it was healthier, but there's no point in deluding myself. Outside of 1A, which is just 6 teams, how well attended were games in the other tiers and divisions over the past few years?
And look at 1A this year. There's going to be no relegation from 1A this year, due to the restructuring in 2020. But the top 4 teams still make the quarter finals. So, if your in 1A, you only have to finish 4th out of 6 teams to make the knockouts, and you can't be relegated. All played off in the crappiest months of the year, so its all wrapped up by early April. And thats on top of teams now recognizing that they can't go all out in league campaigns if they want to be ready for an expanded championship that starts at a hectic pace in June, the realities of the new paradigm became evident in last years championship.
And on top of all that, most of the games in 1a, and alot from 1b, are going to be televised! You said above 'if your mindset on the league was GAA thinking at the top as well'...well its not. I'm not apathetic to the league, but the powers that be might be, or so it would seem to me. Hence my opinion on the realities of the league's state, and the folly of raising admission prices to it.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 21/01/2019 22:35:31
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Replying To TheUsername: "I think you are having two different arguments here. 1 it is important, as i illustrated percentages sometimes arent symptomatic of the actual scale e of the increase or proportion if expendable income. Clearly there are many comparisons to this debate, you are going for percentages, other lads going comparatively with other sports, others with average income and expendable income to the cost of living. Its a rich debate (pardon the pun) and i wouldn't be as linear in thinking as terms of percentages, im sorry if expanding the debate is clouding the issue.
The second argument, you are having is about is about the people of Dublin or a specific area and are clearly making presumptions and stereotypes, im not sure thats healthy online or in life in general. You are also making presumptions and stereotypes about people not from that area of Dublin, im sure there are people well off and not so well off both in the country and also in Dublin or other cites for that matter. I wouldn't be quick to label either personally, even if i was having a bit of craic in my comments, maybe i shouldnt as it seems to have triggered something in you, just breeds nothing healthy so ill leave it there." You see Username us poor Culchies start frothing like your frapacinos when we have Dubs telling us how great the economy is & what great value 33.3% increases are & how our roll, coffee & Mars bar should be costing us €20, you see down the country were not all experiencing that warm fuzzy feeling that ye have up there. Using expendable income is not the most accurate of indicators as there are too many variables, percentage increases based on base figure & increase is accurate, as is comparing that figure to the current CPI index, but we could argue that all night. Fact is for many it's not an issue but for some it is. There are families who travel long journeys to lots of games, food, fuel, transport costs, even with season tickets their loyalty is not being rewarded, there are people who are struggling & their only outlet is GAA & they see this increase as punishment rather than reward for their loyalty. Increasing ticket prices when attendances last year showed serious decline is not good business sense & if they had project managed PUC instead of allowing a €25 Million overspend, would there have been any increase. Anyhow, I must return to the tae & hang sangwich, no pesto or sun dried tomatoes down here.
Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 21/01/2019 22:37:03
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Replying To Dubsfan28: "On this rare occasion I actually agree with you ;) He must be getting lines like that from the King of spin himself Mr Varadkar." Mister 'Sure the Health Service will be grand. Aren't we spending record amounts of taxpayers money on it. I'll tweet that later so it's official' Varadkar.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 21/01/2019 22:42:22
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Replying To Dubsfan28: "On this rare occasion I actually agree with you ;) He must be getting lines like that from the King of spin himself Mr Varadkar." 100% agree , I really hope this blows up in the GAAs faces and people at least cut back going to matches, for the first time ever I will not be attending the quarter final game in crokepark this year or anyother year from now on because imo these games should be played in neutral venues in provincial grounds , crokepark gets enough games in the semifinal and finals.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 21/01/2019 22:59:12
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