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Replying To ROS1: "Would agree with this. A second tier would only serve to widen the gap that is already there. Would reduce interest/support which in turn would reduce finances which already under pressure. In 2010 if you said sam would be in donegal in 2 years you would be laughed out the gate." This is my fear aswell, I'm not going to name teams, but there are certain countys that are unlikely to ever climb above Div3. What good would cutting them adrift actually do?
People say Dublin going down the country hammering a team does no good and I see where they're coming from but look at it this way. The Dubs rolling into town is great for the local economy (well that's if the home team is actually allowed to play at home!!) and also creates a buzz in that county. Cutting them adrift basically shuts this possiblilty down for good for many teams.
Not to mention the fact that div4 teams have had the same succes rate as div1 at beating Dublin in the championship over the last 4 seasons!
We have a league, what's wrong with having a cup competition (albeit one which undoubtedly needs significant improvement).
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 12/11/2018 17:08:03
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Replying To Furlong1949: "It impossible to speculate.
But one thing I noticed is that there is still a bigger chance of teams not winning Sam if say the weight of history is on their shoulders eg a couple of generation gaps between All Ireland wins . This is a obstacle for teams.
Look at Mayo . When a county has not won an All Ireland in a couple of generations or a county hasnt won an All Ireland in 50 years plus this becomes an issue.
For example no football county has closed a 50 year plus gap between All Ireland wins. The biggest gaps we had between All Ireland wins recently was Galway in 1998 when they closed a 32 year gap.
The Longest gaps between sucessive All Ireland wins r
1 Louth 45 years (1912 to 1957)
2 Cork 34 years (1911 to 1945)
3 Galway 32 years (1966 to 1998)
4 Cork 28 years (1945 to 1973)
5 Down 23 years (1968 to 1991)
6 Wexford 22 year (1893 to 1915)
7 Cork 21 years (1890 to 1911)
So only Down in 91 and Galway in 98 have closed big gaps in modern times and no county in football has ever closed a 46 year plus gap between All.Ireland wins.
It seems to me when a county has not won an All Ireland for 40, 50 or 60 years plus this becomes an issue. Look at Mayo. That weight of history going back to 1951 does a play a role. Its not just football its even professional sports.
In hurling the only two counties to close massive gaps where Galway in 1981 , which was a 50 year plus gap and Clare in 1995 which was 70 to 80 year plus gaps. And it took extraordinary figures like Ger Loughnane to do this. Look at the Irish rugby team look at how hard it took them to win Grand Slam in 09. We had a better team then Wales in 00s, but Wales could look back to the 70s for Grand Slams , Ireland had to look back to 1940s. Wales found it easier to win Grand Slams in 00s. Ireland struggled with the weight of history.
Look at soccer Chelsea r only team that have closed a 50 to 60 year gap between league wins. And took Mourinho when he used to be one of the greatest managers ever to achieve it. Look at how Spurs have failed to win league title since 1960s or Newcastle since 1920s. It even has a weight of history in professional sports.
When a county or team dont win a top title for a couple of generations eg 50 years plus it becomes a massive obstacle to get over. The team that won in the past, becomes legendary and immortal eg Mayo 1951 , and following teams are always compared and find the weight of history an issue.
If people say it is not , well two points, look at Mayo, I gurantee if Mayo won Sam in 60s or 89 or 96 they would have won an All Ireland in this decade. And my second point no team has even closed a 50 year gap in All Ireland wins in football. Its never been done . So it clearly hasnt been done." I apologise my first line should have read
It impossible to speculate for certain who will win All Irelands in next 100 years but from past trends we can make educated guesses which could be right but also cud be wrong. Time will tell
I wrote this on top of the above message but I deleted by accident. I hope this makes more sense.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 12/11/2018 17:19:42
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I meant to include Roscommon
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8585 - 12/11/2018 18:24:36
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Its impossible to predict who wouldnt win an All Ireland but even in the next few years it is hard to predict what will happen in football. I know people will say Dublin and kerry will dominate. Maybe they will. But one thing we can say for certain is something no one expected will happen. We will have a surprise team or two that will come on the scene.
Basically who will be the surprise package of the 2020s. What county will come from nowhere and win Sam. It always happens. No one saw it coming.
In the late 50s if you said Down would win 3 All-Irelands beating kerry in finals , it would have been seen as impossible. As no team from 6 counties had won Sam. And Down only won their first Ulster title in late 50s.
In 1969 if you said Dublin would produce one of the greatest teams ever in 70s people would have laughed at u. In 1969 Dublin were in div 2 and not in top 5 teams in leinster. Meath Offaly longford kildare Westmeath were stronger.
In 1979 if you said Meath would produce a great team in 80s that Dublin couldnt beat. No one even in Meath wouldnt have saw that coming. Meath were in div 3 in late 79 , Dublin had played in 6 All Ireland finals in a row.
In 1989 if you said Donegal Derry and Down would win 4 All Irelands in a row in 90s ur insanity wud have been questioned. No Ulster team.had won All Ireland in 20 years. And the provience was seen as the Whipping boys of football for 20 years.
In 1999 if you predicated Tyrone would win 3 All Irelands beating kerry 3 times again no one would have predicted that. Tyrone were well behind Armagh and Derry in late 90s.
In 2009 if you predicted Donegal would win Sam in 3 years you would have been laughed at. Donegal were outside top 15 teams in country in 2009.
Even in hurling every decade we have had teams and sucess no one saw coming. No one in late 70s would have predicted Offaly wud win 2 All Irelands and Galway 3 All-Irelands in 80s. No one in late 80s would have predicted Clare would win 2 All Irelands and Wexford 1 in 90s..No one predicted in 00s Codys sucess with kilkenny in late 00s. Tippearey or Cork would have predicted to have sucess but no kilkenny.
In 2009 if you said Clare Galway and limerick would win liam Mcarthy after Cork kilkenny and Tipp won every All Ireland from 1999 to 2009 again it would have not seen as possible.
So what unexpected team will emerge in 2020s. Not a team that people can see already having potential like Galway. Who is going to be the Donegal of 2020s.
My tip is Armagh. A county that is underachieving under the overrated McGeeney. 3 of the last 4 seasons in div 3, no win in Ulster in 4 years. Armagh have potential. Future managers like McEntee brother McNulty and McConville would be good options. Ulster is always good for a surprise team..It will be 20 years since Armagh won Sam in 2022. So my surprise team to win Sam in 2020s is Armagh. It seems longshot. But so was Donegal in 2009 and Down in 1959.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 12/11/2018 20:18:20
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Replying To Furlong1949: "Its impossible to predict who wouldnt win an All Ireland but even in the next few years it is hard to predict what will happen in football. I know people will say Dublin and kerry will dominate. Maybe they will. But one thing we can say for certain is something no one expected will happen. We will have a surprise team or two that will come on the scene.
Basically who will be the surprise package of the 2020s. What county will come from nowhere and win Sam. It always happens. No one saw it coming.
In the late 50s if you said Down would win 3 All-Irelands beating kerry in finals , it would have been seen as impossible. As no team from 6 counties had won Sam. And Down only won their first Ulster title in late 50s.
In 1969 if you said Dublin would produce one of the greatest teams ever in 70s people would have laughed at u. In 1969 Dublin were in div 2 and not in top 5 teams in leinster. Meath Offaly longford kildare Westmeath were stronger.
In 1979 if you said Meath would produce a great team in 80s that Dublin couldnt beat. No one even in Meath wouldnt have saw that coming. Meath were in div 3 in late 79 , Dublin had played in 6 All Ireland finals in a row.
In 1989 if you said Donegal Derry and Down would win 4 All Irelands in a row in 90s ur insanity wud have been questioned. No Ulster team.had won All Ireland in 20 years. And the provience was seen as the Whipping boys of football for 20 years.
In 1999 if you predicated Tyrone would win 3 All Irelands beating kerry 3 times again no one would have predicted that. Tyrone were well behind Armagh and Derry in late 90s.
In 2009 if you predicted Donegal would win Sam in 3 years you would have been laughed at. Donegal were outside top 15 teams in country in 2009.
Even in hurling every decade we have had teams and sucess no one saw coming. No one in late 70s would have predicted Offaly wud win 2 All Irelands and Galway 3 All-Irelands in 80s. No one in late 80s would have predicted Clare would win 2 All Irelands and Wexford 1 in 90s..No one predicted in 00s Codys sucess with kilkenny in late 00s. Tippearey or Cork would have predicted to have sucess but no kilkenny.
In 2009 if you said Clare Galway and limerick would win liam Mcarthy after Cork kilkenny and Tipp won every All Ireland from 1999 to 2009 again it would have not seen as possible.
So what unexpected team will emerge in 2020s. Not a team that people can see already having potential like Galway. Who is going to be the Donegal of 2020s.
My tip is Armagh. A county that is underachieving under the overrated McGeeney. 3 of the last 4 seasons in div 3, no win in Ulster in 4 years. Armagh have potential. Future managers like McEntee brother McNulty and McConville would be good options. Ulster is always good for a surprise team..It will be 20 years since Armagh won Sam in 2022. So my surprise team to win Sam in 2020s is Armagh. It seems longshot. But so was Donegal in 2009 and Down in 1959." outside of Cork in 2010, no nw team has surfaced this decade to actually win the AI, Monaghan, Tyrone all hitting heights but ultimately fall on quarter/semifinal or final at the odd push (Tyrone) but mainly media do their talking up, how anyone thought Tyrone were better this year that last year (they were marginally) but bar Dublin blew up altogether, the dog on the street knew Tyrone wouldnt beat Dublin in this years AI....with levels of fittness and professionalism now basically all but acknowledged, I think the counties listed by other posters are light years away from winning an AI anytime soon, basically I maintain if you cannot win an AI the short route, its very very difficult (I know Offaly done it in hurling and Galway in football and another county or 2 I think also) but its next to impossible to win 6/7/8 games via the back door to win an AI...its all money now for the GAA with tv rights etc...mightnt be too popular with die hard gaels for saying that but its true....
Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 12/11/2018 23:39:54
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i think the time of the team coming from no where is gone.. dublin got their act together and are so well organised now both structurally and financially that its impossible to see them not at the top table in the future. lets be honest dublins second team would beat 90% of whats there at the moment. kerry will always be around but how far behind dublin are they at the moment? id be thinking a good bit. dublin beat tyrone at their ease in this years final.mayo look to be gone back.donegal galway and monaghan are brave but limited. as long as dublin stay organised they should win sam over half the time.
hurling is more "competitive" at the moment but if competitive means 6(limerick,galway.cork,kilkenny ,tipp and waterford) out of 32 countys being capable of winning it its competitive.
wexford dublin offaly may win an odd league game against the top 6 but its fairly certain the above 6 will have the all irelands between them.
kavvie (Clare) - Posts: 505 - 13/11/2018 10:57:46
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Replying To Fairplayalways: "outside of Cork in 2010, no nw team has surfaced this decade to actually win the AI, Monaghan, Tyrone all hitting heights but ultimately fall on quarter/semifinal or final at the odd push (Tyrone) but mainly media do their talking up, how anyone thought Tyrone were better this year that last year (they were marginally) but bar Dublin blew up altogether, the dog on the street knew Tyrone wouldnt beat Dublin in this years AI....with levels of fittness and professionalism now basically all but acknowledged, I think the counties listed by other posters are light years away from winning an AI anytime soon, basically I maintain if you cannot win an AI the short route, its very very difficult (I know Offaly done it in hurling and Galway in football and another county or 2 I think also) but its next to impossible to win 6/7/8 games via the back door to win an AI...its all money now for the GAA with tv rights etc...mightnt be too popular with die hard gaels for saying that but its true...." Would agree with a lot of this, money is a huge factor now and makes the likelihood of a plucky outlier winning the big prize very small indeed.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 13/11/2018 10:58:26
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Replying To kavvie: "i think the time of the team coming from no where is gone.. dublin got their act together and are so well organised now both structurally and financially that its impossible to see them not at the top table in the future. lets be honest dublins second team would beat 90% of whats there at the moment. kerry will always be around but how far behind dublin are they at the moment? id be thinking a good bit. dublin beat tyrone at their ease in this years final.mayo look to be gone back.donegal galway and monaghan are brave but limited. as long as dublin stay organised they should win sam over half the time.
hurling is more "competitive" at the moment but if competitive means 6(limerick,galway.cork,kilkenny ,tipp and waterford) out of 32 countys being capable of winning it its competitive.
wexford dublin offaly may win an odd league game against the top 6 but its fairly certain the above 6 will have the all irelands between them." Would agree with that. Look Dublin have 60 full time paid coaches, Meath have 4. So here is the main opposition to dubs in Leinster since gaa was set up, huge population have beat Dublin more than any other county (furlong correct me if I'm wrong) but I think I'm right, single code county in reality, same applies to Kildare. The big difference is FUNDING. Gaa made a monster in Dublin while ignoring every other county. It won't be admitted this year when dubs win 5 in row or next year when they do six. Maybe as it edges towards the 10 then and only then will it sink in, what is needed is for Meath Kildare etc to have 40 full time coaches looking after the need of every player, I can't think of the Kildare lad who is in aussie rules but Conor Nash is the best midfielder in ire and would destroy anyone on dubs team, but he not playing for Meath as he is in Australia, dubs don't have to worry about that as the players have financial stability, ie work sorted never out of pocket free car etc etc. I could go on and on and on. But you get my drift. Until the balance is redefined football is dead.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 13/11/2018 13:15:30
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Replying To royaldunne: "Would agree with that. Look Dublin have 60 full time paid coaches, Meath have 4. So here is the main opposition to dubs in Leinster since gaa was set up, huge population have beat Dublin more than any other county (furlong correct me if I'm wrong) but I think I'm right, single code county in reality, same applies to Kildare. The big difference is FUNDING. Gaa made a monster in Dublin while ignoring every other county. It won't be admitted this year when dubs win 5 in row or next year when they do six. Maybe as it edges towards the 10 then and only then will it sink in, what is needed is for Meath Kildare etc to have 40 full time coaches looking after the need of every player, I can't think of the Kildare lad who is in aussie rules but Conor Nash is the best midfielder in ire and would destroy anyone on dubs team, but he not playing for Meath as he is in Australia, dubs don't have to worry about that as the players have financial stability, ie work sorted never out of pocket free car etc etc. I could go on and on and on. But you get my drift. Until the balance is redefined football is dead." Nash never played a single game at senior football for Meath. How can you say he's the best midfielder in Ireland??
Btw he said in an interview that if he didn't go to Australia he would have played rugby. So maybe the IRFU should get their act together to keep him.
St.Conleth (Kildare) - Posts: 1700 - 13/11/2018 18:16:52
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Replying To kavvie: "i think the time of the team coming from no where is gone.. dublin got their act together and are so well organised now both structurally and financially that its impossible to see them not at the top table in the future. lets be honest dublins second team would beat 90% of whats there at the moment. kerry will always be around but how far behind dublin are they at the moment? id be thinking a good bit. dublin beat tyrone at their ease in this years final.mayo look to be gone back.donegal galway and monaghan are brave but limited. as long as dublin stay organised they should win sam over half the time.
hurling is more "competitive" at the moment but if competitive means 6(limerick,galway.cork,kilkenny ,tipp and waterford) out of 32 countys being capable of winning it its competitive.
wexford dublin offaly may win an odd league game against the top 6 but its fairly certain the above 6 will have the all irelands between them." You leave your own county out of the hurling contenders!!! Galway were lucky to get past them in the semi final and had they won that one I wouldn't have bet against them vs Limerick in the final.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1902 - 13/11/2018 19:11:56
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Replying To St.Conleth: "Nash never played a single game at senior football for Meath. How can you say he's the best midfielder in Ireland??
Btw he said in an interview that if he didn't go to Australia he would have played rugby. So maybe the IRFU should get their act together to keep him." Trust me he would e best midfielder in Ireland. And anyone who says different never saw I'm playing
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 13/11/2018 19:56:53
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Replying To royaldunne: "Would agree with that. Look Dublin have 60 full time paid coaches, Meath have 4. So here is the main opposition to dubs in Leinster since gaa was set up, huge population have beat Dublin more than any other county (furlong correct me if I'm wrong) but I think I'm right, single code county in reality, same applies to Kildare. The big difference is FUNDING. Gaa made a monster in Dublin while ignoring every other county. It won't be admitted this year when dubs win 5 in row or next year when they do six. Maybe as it edges towards the 10 then and only then will it sink in, what is needed is for Meath Kildare etc to have 40 full time coaches looking after the need of every player, I can't think of the Kildare lad who is in aussie rules but Conor Nash is the best midfielder in ire and would destroy anyone on dubs team, but he not playing for Meath as he is in Australia, dubs don't have to worry about that as the players have financial stability, ie work sorted never out of pocket free car etc etc. I could go on and on and on. But you get my drift. Until the balance is redefined football is dead." Easy now me auld pal, saying a lad who dosent play football would destroy the likes of Fenton or McCarthy is being a little presumptuous don't you think?!
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8585 - 13/11/2018 20:20:39
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In Football I can't see Wexford ever winning one again though they won 4 in a row in their history. I hope I'm wrong as I'd love to see them get competitive again in football.
In Hurling I can't Offaly winning one again. I hope I'm wrong as they had awesome players in the past.
WoodlawnPat (Galway) - Posts: 288 - 13/11/2018 20:49:34
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Dont always agree with Royal Dunne but Conor Nash is the best footballer produced by Meath in a decade. Most of ye have not seen this lad. He would have been right up there with Brian Fenton, the top footballer in the country in 2018. Nash was the driving force as Simonstown won their only Meath SFC's in 2016 and 17. The first while only after turning 18. With Shane O Rourke he formed an outstanding midfield pairing, certainly a better one than anything Meath put out in recent times. He only played in the knock out stages of the Meath championship in 2017 and some maintain his Aussie club were none too happy about him doing so. Often as they say 'he was worth five men'. If he was available Meath would have won Leinster minor honours in 2016 and Simonstown would have taken provincial honours in 2017. By the way young Fenton is a terrific talent but Dublin were lucky in his case. He is 'tailor made' for the Aussie Rules but Brian was a late developer and came in under the radar as far as the Aussie scavengers were concerned.
Triple H (Meath) - Posts: 551 - 13/11/2018 21:15:35
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You leave your own county out of the hurling contenders!!! Galway were lucky to get past them in the semi final and had they won that one I wouldn't have bet against them vs Limerick in the final.
i left out clare.. a slip of the keyboard!!
kavvie (Clare) - Posts: 505 - 13/11/2018 21:36:38
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Replying To realdub: "Easy now me auld pal, saying a lad who dosent play football would destroy the likes of Fenton or McCarthy is being a little presumptuous don't you think?!" He really was / is that good. Fenton and him would be the exact same. I am genuinely not on a wind up. The best player Meath have produced in decade, perhaps longer. I would argue better than mcentee or Hayes and probably better than McDermont (now I may even get shot for saying that) I'd put him in the same category as Giles , geraghty, fay, in a modern day sense in what he could have brought to county team. Honestly the lad will be a aussie legend, I just hope he does a Kennelly on it and at least plays one full season for Meath, (not saying we would win a all ire) but the county needs to show off what might have been and I'd hazard a guess he would be talk of championship, it's not just my opinion. Colm orouke said he was the best player Meath have produced in a long time and he hopes that one day he will see him play midfield for Meath.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 14/11/2018 00:07:31
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Replying To Greengrass: "Louth." Ah Greengrass wee will win another one. Wee will wait till 2057 to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the last one.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 14/11/2018 00:14:55
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Replying To Furlong1949: "I apologise my first line should have read
It impossible to speculate for certain who will win All Irelands in next 100 years but from past trends we can make educated guesses which could be right but also cud be wrong. Time will tell
I wrote this on top of the above message but I deleted by accident. I hope this makes more sense." You talk about gaps but you fail to mention donegal, tryone and armagh who won all irelands after generations of failing to do so. It didn't hold then back or indeed llecister city or blackburn rovers in the premier league.
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 14/11/2018 07:39:21
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not reading the whole thread,but how could anyone say a county might NOT win an all ireland again?
the gaa will be around long after most of us take our last breaths.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 14/11/2018 08:45:03
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Replying To royaldunne: "He really was / is that good. Fenton and him would be the exact same. I am genuinely not on a wind up. The best player Meath have produced in decade, perhaps longer. I would argue better than mcentee or Hayes and probably better than McDermont (now I may even get shot for saying that) I'd put him in the same category as Giles , geraghty, fay, in a modern day sense in what he could have brought to county team. Honestly the lad will be a aussie legend, I just hope he does a Kennelly on it and at least plays one full season for Meath, (not saying we would win a all ire) but the county needs to show off what might have been and I'd hazard a guess he would be talk of championship, it's not just my opinion. Colm orouke said he was the best player Meath have produced in a long time and he hopes that one day he will see him play midfield for Meath." Was he not bound for pro Rugby even if he had stayed at home? I'd agree he would have made a phenomenal midfielder.
I started following a bit of AFL since a few of our own lads moved out there and similar to yourselves we had an unbelievable minor midfielder in 2014-15 called Mark O'Connor who moved to Geelong he and Nash even faced each other on the pitch towards the end of the season.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 14/11/2018 10:25:27
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