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Replying To legendzxix: "The Railway Cup is a higher level of competition. Dublin being rehoused there brings natural bragging rights for whoever is top dog at that level.
The Munster hurling championship was a strong 5 county round robin.
The Railway Cup can be a strong 5 team inter-provincial round robin.
Natural and respectful changes can come about over time." A not unreasonable argument made by a number of posters is that Dublin have a demographic advantage in that all or the vast majority of their players live in or around Dublin. The comparison was that other counties have a, sometimes significant, percentage of their players living in other parts of Ireland for work or college etc. and the commute to training is difficult for players, doesn't help their general fitness (less rest period etc.) and is a disincentive for certain players to join the panel.
Your solution to the discussion at hand is to create a situation which will increase the commute time for a higher percentage of players, thus exacerbating the problem that already is a fairly substantial consideration for a lot of counties.
Another suggestion worthy of Brexit - a solution that causes more problems than it fixes.
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 20/08/2018 13:28:23
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I ask again as no has ever answered this question, ever!
You all talk about how much Dublin get from the GAA, but how much do they 'give'/generate?
Then we can see the net net results
Then my 2nd question. You talk about development funds but what other monies? How much did Kildare get for been badly run financial and the GAA had to get them back into the black. Monies gone into stadium development all over Ireland where county boards keep the revenue from clubs games etc?
Can we get the complete picture first and then decide it Dublin is 'stealing' off everyone or actually been 'stolen' from!
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 20/08/2018 13:31:27
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Replying To tearintom: "No the registered players argument underlines where is all this money going?
Its been said many times on here that there has to be a viable working plan in place before money is just thrown at projects, there is a lot of money being thrown at Dublin to develop the game yet 40% of the funding goes to County teams.
Where is all the other money going, is it being used properly? Should there be a review of where the funding is going or just keep throwing more money?
Between 2011 and 2015 Dublin grew its registered players number by 43%.
However Dublin got 22 times the games development money of Kildare who grew 29 per cent; they got 29 times the money of Donegal who grew 31 per cent; they got 19 times the money of Meath who grew 32 per cent; they got 30 times the money of Monaghan who grew 36 per cent; they got 24 times the money of Louth who grew 37 per cent; they got 22 times the money of Limerick who grew 42 per cent
On a national level 17.5% of registered player growth was in Dublin yet they received 42% of total funding and this is with an all conquering county team to help?
Like i said the amount of funding that Dublin receives needs to be seriously looked at, that doesnt or shouldnt take away from whats happening with the current Dublin team, it should be set aside from that, a totally different matter, a team that was coming irregardless of funding.
At the very least how its being spent needs reviewing" It's as if you didn't read what I typed
Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 382 - 20/08/2018 13:33:48
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: "A not unreasonable argument made by a number of posters is that Dublin have a demographic advantage in that all or the vast majority of their players live in or around Dublin. The comparison was that other counties have a, sometimes significant, percentage of their players living in other parts of Ireland for work or college etc. and the commute to training is difficult for players, doesn't help their general fitness (less rest period etc.) and is a disincentive for certain players to join the panel.
Your solution to the discussion at hand is to create a situation which will increase the commute time for a higher percentage of players, thus exacerbating the problem that already is a fairly substantial consideration for a lot of counties.
Another suggestion worthy of Brexit - a solution that causes more problems than it fixes." It's not a solution, it's just a natural evolution. Dublin has become a province in all but official confirmation of that. It's something that can be embraced for a higher level of competition.
There's a tax incentive for Irish sports people living in the country. A high level competition with 5 teams could reward the playing staff with a reasonable amount of money tax free. As it would be attracting and featuring the best of talent in the game, marketing, advertising and financial investment is all achievable for such a competition.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 20/08/2018 17:08:53
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Replying To legendzxix: " Replying To Kurt_Angle: "A not unreasonable argument made by a number of posters is that Dublin have a demographic advantage in that all or the vast majority of their players live in or around Dublin. The comparison was that other counties have a, sometimes significant, percentage of their players living in other parts of Ireland for work or college etc. and the commute to training is difficult for players, doesn't help their general fitness (less rest period etc.) and is a disincentive for certain players to join the panel.
Your solution to the discussion at hand is to create a situation which will increase the commute time for a higher percentage of players, thus exacerbating the problem that already is a fairly substantial consideration for a lot of counties.
Another suggestion worthy of Brexit - a solution that causes more problems than it fixes." It's not a solution, it's just a natural evolution. Dublin has become a province in all but official confirmation of that. It's something that can be embraced for a higher level of competition. There's a tax incentive for Irish sports people living in the country. A high level competition with 5 teams could reward the playing staff with a reasonable amount of money tax free. As it would be attracting and featuring the best of talent in the game, marketing, advertising and financial investment is all achievable for such a competition."
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 20/08/2018 18:28:43
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Replying To tearintom: "No the registered players argument underlines where is all this money going?
Its been said many times on here that there has to be a viable working plan in place before money is just thrown at projects, there is a lot of money being thrown at Dublin to develop the game yet 40% of the funding goes to County teams.
Where is all the other money going, is it being used properly? Should there be a review of where the funding is going or just keep throwing more money?
Between 2011 and 2015 Dublin grew its registered players number by 43%.
However Dublin got 22 times the games development money of Kildare who grew 29 per cent; they got 29 times the money of Donegal who grew 31 per cent; they got 19 times the money of Meath who grew 32 per cent; they got 30 times the money of Monaghan who grew 36 per cent; they got 24 times the money of Louth who grew 37 per cent; they got 22 times the money of Limerick who grew 42 per cent
On a national level 17.5% of registered player growth was in Dublin yet they received 42% of total funding and this is with an all conquering county team to help?
Like i said the amount of funding that Dublin receives needs to be seriously looked at, that doesnt or shouldnt take away from whats happening with the current Dublin team, it should be set aside from that, a totally different matter, a team that was coming irregardless of funding.
At the very least how its being spent needs reviewing" You say funding as very broad statement. There are many different types my point was about player development funding. Categorically none of that goes to the Dublin County team. The County teams are self sustainable on commercial income alone, in fact they post a profit.
I cant speak for other counties and how they fund their county teams. The reality is from GAA coffers Dublin take 200k annually for GDF, the rest is provided by the sports council in a 1mill grant annually, that is designed to promote Gaelic Games in the capital. So if the ISF grant was to stop tomorrow, or Dublin funding cut by 1mill, its not like that would be going back into central funds.
The breakdown of where the games development money is spent in Dublin is all online, essentially its schools, go games and Cul Camps. But overall Dublin do have a broad strategic plan.
I know where you are coming from with you percentage figures, but they are percentages for a reason. A 43% increase in Dublin is by far a larger volume of people 36% in monagahn by the very nature of population distribution and volume. Ultimately the percentages you talk about if you equate them to one person would largely show Dublin funding is going to an awful not more people regardless of percentages.
I am definitely not saying Dublin do a wonderful job promoting Gaelic Games in Dublin, 39k registered players is woeful for a population of 1.3million people. It does highlight a need to develop gailic games in the captail and does justify the level of games development money, while you also have to look at the volume of people. As i have already illustrated Dublin arent even the most funded county per head of population for games development.
The evidance just isn't there either by population, registered players or being the most funded county to say there is a glaring inequity.
If there was 900k registered players in Dublin, i would wholly agree with you , however.......
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 20/08/2018 18:36:00
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Late to this thread but dublin myth of packing croke park is factually incorrect. Always has been .
Dublin like all teams pack croke park from all Ireland semis on no more no less. Look it up leinster championship has had no support in 10 years.
This year's semis were a mixture of overkill with super 8s and getting drawn against a duel county that where in hurling final.
Also add fatigue of winning so much dubs can save there money for an away all Ireland final in croke park.
ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 259 - 20/08/2018 19:37:27
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Replying To witnof: "I ask again as no has ever answered this question, ever!
You all talk about how much Dublin get from the GAA, but how much do they 'give'/generate?
Then we can see the net net results
Then my 2nd question. You talk about development funds but what other monies? How much did Kildare get for been badly run financial and the GAA had to get them back into the black. Monies gone into stadium development all over Ireland where county boards keep the revenue from clubs games etc?
Can we get the complete picture first and then decide it Dublin is 'stealing' off everyone or actually been 'stolen' from!" Dublins attendances have been plummeting this year. So this whole Dublin funds the gaa is no longer valid.
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 21/08/2018 00:02:01
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Replying To TheUsername: "You say funding as very broad statement. There are many different types my point was about player development funding. Categorically none of that goes to the Dublin County team. The County teams are self sustainable on commercial income alone, in fact they post a profit.
I cant speak for other counties and how they fund their county teams. The reality is from GAA coffers Dublin take 200k annually for GDF, the rest is provided by the sports council in a 1mill grant annually, that is designed to promote Gaelic Games in the capital. So if the ISF grant was to stop tomorrow, or Dublin funding cut by 1mill, its not like that would be going back into central funds.
The breakdown of where the games development money is spent in Dublin is all online, essentially its schools, go games and Cul Camps. But overall Dublin do have a broad strategic plan.
I know where you are coming from with you percentage figures, but they are percentages for a reason. A 43% increase in Dublin is by far a larger volume of people 36% in monagahn by the very nature of population distribution and volume. Ultimately the percentages you talk about if you equate them to one person would largely show Dublin funding is going to an awful not more people regardless of percentages.
I am definitely not saying Dublin do a wonderful job promoting Gaelic Games in Dublin, 39k registered players is woeful for a population of 1.3million people. It does highlight a need to develop gailic games in the captail and does justify the level of games development money, while you also have to look at the volume of people. As i have already illustrated Dublin arent even the most funded county per head of population for games development.
The evidance just isn't there either by population, registered players or being the most funded county to say there is a glaring inequity.
If there was 900k registered players in Dublin, i would wholly agree with you , however......." Thanks for the reasoned response which goes beyond the usual yiz all just hate Dublin and yiz are all just jealous and what about such and such a county.
It's a debate worth having imho.
I don't bare any Ill will towards Dublin at all sure didn't I live there long enough (collecting a per population funding for Dublin albeit registered and playing in my home county :). ) I admire and say fair play for doing what they have done and making use of what's been given to them not demanded.
But I do believe the funding debate is one worth seriously having and something that needs serious review for the good of the game as a whole for the entirety of the association and not just for its biggest catchment areas.
Cheers.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 21/08/2018 07:36:10
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Replying To tearintom: "Thanks for the reasoned response which goes beyond the usual yiz all just hate Dublin and yiz are all just jealous and what about such and such a county.
It's a debate worth having imho.
I don't bare any Ill will towards Dublin at all sure didn't I live there long enough (collecting a per population funding for Dublin albeit registered and playing in my home county :). ) I admire and say fair play for doing what they have done and making use of what's been given to them not demanded.
But I do believe the funding debate is one worth seriously having and something that needs serious review for the good of the game as a whole for the entirety of the association and not just for its biggest catchment areas.
Cheers." I agree its important to have the debate the issue as at times there is a narrative that just dont hold up to scrutiny in my opinion.
Many say Dublin do a wonderful job with what they are given, personally i think the jury is out on that, some good work has been done but the number of registered players per population is very low in my opinion. One of the great contributors to Dublins recent success has been developing the game both on the north side and the south side of the county. Historically you would have a Dublin team made solely of players from Northside clubs that was a GAA strong hold. The distribution is far more even and the game has been developed on the Southside of the City. If you took Dublins Southside players out of the team its interesting what the team would look like and no doubt Dublin would slip back into pack. That is the way it has been historically when you look at Dublin All Ireland winning teams historically the vast majority have been made up of Northside club players.
So some good work done, but far more to be done. There is a massive resource is west Couty Dublin going under developed, Tallaght, Clondalkin, Lucan and Blancardfstown all have had growth and huge youth numbers flooding in and while there are some clubs in the areas, soccer, Rugby, Boxing, MMA are all king. Massive resources there to be tapped and these areas have produced many of Ireland International sports stars.
I agree broadly that funding needs to be looked at across the country. For the life of me i cant work out many of the figures. Galway, Down and Cork in particular. Why Kerry get so much as opposed to Mayo,Tyrone and Donegal or Down.
The thing that rarely discussed in these debates are cumulative funding. For example to look at Mayos figures you would think they are massively underfunded in comparison to Dublin. But if you look at their commercial figures they earn 70k less then Dublin in this area, which is a phenomenal performance.
So while GDF gets a lot of headlines because its easy to find in the GAA accounts its a bit of a red herring. GDF, Provincial grants, Commercial income and structural funding need to be all accumulated and then a judgement can be made on equity.
My own opinion is the GAA are on shaky ground they have a hybrid model of funds being provided by communal central funds, yet have allowed counties to enter the free market of commercial activity and raise funds privately, that is very difficult to control once its left of the leash. So essentially the funding model is commune on one hand but capitalist on the other. As time goes on GAA funds will become less important for counties and their main income will be what they raise themselves in commercial activities. All ready Mayo and Dublins commercial activities totally outweigh what they receive from the GAA and other sources. This is the way it will go ultimately.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 21/08/2018 10:48:39
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Replying To Jack_Goff: "Dublins attendances have been plummeting this year. So this whole Dublin funds the gaa is no longer valid." Agree with you, a poorly attended Leinster Final and 53k at an All Ireland semi final is a disastrous attendance. Croke Park is literally the back yard. We keep being told this Dublin team are the best football team ever and they probably are, but Dublin fans are turning up in smaller numbers to watch which is a strange situation.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 21/08/2018 11:14:19
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Replying To Jack_Goff: "Dublins attendances have been plummeting this year. So this whole Dublin funds the gaa is no longer valid." You did not answer any one of the questions I noticed. Just a blanket statement backed up with zero facts
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 21/08/2018 16:14:03
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Replying To Damothedub: " Replying To legendzxix: "[quote=Kurt_Angle: "A not unreasonable argument made by a number of posters is that Dublin have a demographic advantage in that all or the vast majority of their players live in or around Dublin. The comparison was that other counties have a, sometimes significant, percentage of their players living in other parts of Ireland for work or college etc. and the commute to training is difficult for players, doesn't help their general fitness (less rest period etc.) and is a disincentive for certain players to join the panel.
Your solution to the discussion at hand is to create a situation which will increase the commute time for a higher percentage of players, thus exacerbating the problem that already is a fairly substantial consideration for a lot of counties.
Another suggestion worthy of Brexit - a solution that causes more problems than it fixes." It's not a solution, it's just a natural evolution. Dublin has become a province in all but official confirmation of that. It's something that can be embraced for a higher level of competition. There's a tax incentive for Irish sports people living in the country. A high level competition with 5 teams could reward the playing staff with a reasonable amount of money tax free. As it would be attracting and featuring the best of talent in the game, marketing, advertising and financial investment is all achievable for such a competition."
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 21/08/2018 17:55:56
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The Super 8's inspired the hurling provincial group championship so that hurling would not be left in the shade of football. Hurling seems to have gotten the better hurling format structure.
Football possibly should consider provincial groups as well. The Super 8's is in place for another two years at least but it's a discussion that is going to have to start taking place next year.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 21/08/2018 18:01:04
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I haven't seen this great Dublin team in the flesh, I was them in 2007 but they mostly had a different team then. I could have went to Omagh recently but there are too many Tyrone people in Omagh.
PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 222 - 21/08/2018 19:19:21
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Replying To legendzxix: " Replying To Damothedub: "[quote=legendzxix: "[quote=Kurt_Angle: "A not unreasonable argument made by a number of posters is that Dublin have a demographic advantage in that all or the vast majority of their players live in or around Dublin. The comparison was that other counties have a, sometimes significant, percentage of their players living in other parts of Ireland for work or college etc. and the commute to training is difficult for players, doesn't help their general fitness (less rest period etc.) and is a disincentive for certain players to join the panel.
Your solution to the discussion at hand is to create a situation which will increase the commute time for a higher percentage of players, thus exacerbating the problem that already is a fairly substantial consideration for a lot of counties.
Another suggestion worthy of Brexit - a solution that causes more problems than it fixes." It's not a solution, it's just a natural evolution. Dublin has become a province in all but official confirmation of that. It's something that can be embraced for a higher level of competition. There's a tax incentive for Irish sports people living in the country. A high level competition with 5 teams could reward the playing staff with a reasonable amount of money tax free. As it would be attracting and featuring the best of talent in the game, marketing, advertising and financial investment is all achievable for such a competition."
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 21/08/2018 19:30:08
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Replying To Damothedub: " Replying To legendzxix: "[quote=Damothedub: "[quote=legendzxix: "[quote=Kurt_Angle: "A not unreasonable argument made by a number of posters is that Dublin have a demographic advantage in that all or the vast majority of their players live in or around Dublin. The comparison was that other counties have a, sometimes significant, percentage of their players living in other parts of Ireland for work or college etc. and the commute to training is difficult for players, doesn't help their general fitness (less rest period etc.) and is a disincentive for certain players to join the panel.
Your solution to the discussion at hand is to create a situation which will increase the commute time for a higher percentage of players, thus exacerbating the problem that already is a fairly substantial consideration for a lot of counties.
Another suggestion worthy of Brexit - a solution that causes more problems than it fixes." It's not a solution, it's just a natural evolution. Dublin has become a province in all but official confirmation of that. It's something that can be embraced for a higher level of competition. There's a tax incentive for Irish sports people living in the country. A high level competition with 5 teams could reward the playing staff with a reasonable amount of money tax free. As it would be attracting and featuring the best of talent in the game, marketing, advertising and financial investment is all achievable for such a competition."
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 21/08/2018 21:23:20
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Replying To legendzxix: " Replying To Damothedub: "[quote=legendzxix: "[quote=Damothedub: "[quote=legendzxix: "[quote=Kurt_Angle: "A not unreasonable argument made by a number of posters is that Dublin have a demographic advantage in that all or the vast majority of their players live in or around Dublin. The comparison was that other counties have a, sometimes significant, percentage of their players living in other parts of Ireland for work or college etc. and the commute to training is difficult for players, doesn't help their general fitness (less rest period etc.) and is a disincentive for certain players to join the panel.
Your solution to the discussion at hand is to create a situation which will increase the commute time for a higher percentage of players, thus exacerbating the problem that already is a fairly substantial consideration for a lot of counties.
Another suggestion worthy of Brexit - a solution that causes more problems than it fixes." It's not a solution, it's just a natural evolution. Dublin has become a province in all but official confirmation of that. It's something that can be embraced for a higher level of competition. There's a tax incentive for Irish sports people living in the country. A high level competition with 5 teams could reward the playing staff with a reasonable amount of money tax free. As it would be attracting and featuring the best of talent in the game, marketing, advertising and financial investment is all achievable for such a competition."
Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 382 - 21/08/2018 23:46:45
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