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How Will The Football Championship Be Tiered By 2021?

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Duffy makes final call for tiered football championship - RTE; https://www.rte.ie/amp/935381/ Football has to be a tiered championship, says Páraic Duffy \| Irish Examiner; https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/football-has-to-be-a-tiered-championship-says-paraic-duffy-466208.html legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 13/06/2018 09:05:00 2110871 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Duffy makes final call for tiered football championship - RTE; https://www.rte.ie/amp/935381/ Football has to be a tiered championship, says Páraic Duffy \| Irish Examiner; https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/football-has-to-be-a-tiered-championship-says-paraic-duffy-466208.html" I think the answer for football is to play the league and Provincial championships in parallel. Then finish with a simpler knockout All Ireland based on seedings created by a mix of league and championship. Roughly it'd be Round 1 Division 3 v Division 4 Round 2 Division 2 v winner round 1 Round 3 Division 1 v winner round 2 I'd have a division 3/4 team that makes a Provincial final get a bye to round 2 replacing the lowest rated division 2 team. I'd have Provincial champions receive a bye to round 3, replacing lowest rated division 1 team. Something similar could work in hurling with divisions of 10,10,8 and 7. Plus Provincial championships going back to knockout. (Might not happen because of the success of this years group format, although having the groups based on Provinces causes problems, with a 10 team league top tier not associated with Provincial competition you lose some of the current imbalances). There'd be a 16 team All Ireland with 4 byes to round 2 and 4 byes to round 3. Provincial champions get a bye to round 3 Provincial runners up get a bye to round 2. Remaining byes filled in bye league positions. Ulster championship could get a spot in a 16 team All Ireland plus a previous seasons Tier 2 championship winner. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 13/06/2018 11:04:15 2110917 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Duffy makes final call for tiered football championship - RTE; https://www.rte.ie/amp/935381/ Football has to be a tiered championship, says Páraic Duffy \| Irish Examiner; https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/football-has-to-be-a-tiered-championship-says-paraic-duffy-466208.html" Both those URLs are from January and Duffy, thankfully, is no longer the Director General. Good and revealing interview with him on Off the Ball where he talked a lot but said very little. link The GAA need to talk to players, coaches and supporters when they talk about the tiered system proposal. They don't seem to have talked to anyone before pushing the Super 8 proposal. That effectively relegates the remaining counties to second class citizens in terms of media coverage and exposure which can help bring in much needed sponsors and advertising revenue. In a week that Waterford footballers make history but barely mentioned on The Sunday Game. They schedule Sligo footballers and hurlers for the same day and the dual player has to decide between them. Croke Park don't seem to be accountable to anyone, and they're spending taxpayers money. There used to be a TV show where the staff could takeover a business when management stood aside for a few weeks. I honestly think we could get brilliant people who volunteer at grassroots level to do a better job in Croke Park for all the GAA and not just the elite level. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 13/06/2018 11:30:16 2110932 Link
Stepped down and he is still trying to put his influence on things. Typical of the man His 10 years of trying to scrap the U21 grade was eventually achieved replacing a exciting and popular grade with a watered down one and the super 8 the daftest of round robin at the last eight stage to stop underdogs from reaching the last 4 and for Croke Park to basically get more money on attendances with this short term idea is hardly the legacy he was seeking as he left. A better article on football tiered championship https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/noone-dreams-of-secondtier-glory-36972288.html Yondu (UK) - Posts: 845 - 13/06/2018 11:32:02 2110935 Link
There really can only be 2 different options for a tiered championship, either split the championship in 2 by having Division 1 and 2 teams in the race for Sam while Division 3 and 4 play in a 2nd tier championship. 2nd option is to have a system like the FA cup in soccer in England where the weaker counties play in a knock out competition then the big guns enter the championship at later rounds but to me the 2nd option is a non runner. Everybody is praising the hurling system but as a person from the weaker counties it doesn't seem to be helping us, the National League seems more balanced, in championship hurling as of 2017 Mayo were in the 2nd tier competition (Christy Ring) but as of 2018 we were in the 3rd tier without pucking a sliotar, Joe McDonagh was a new grade the 2nd grade, everything else slipped down a grade, this year Mayo were relegated from Christy Ring and next year 2019 we will be in the 4th tier Nicky Rackard this along with the cups being finished off before early to mid June serves no purpose, better off for our hurlers to concentrate or trying to achieve greater things for their clubs instead of playing for their county in sadly Mickey mouse competitions with no chance of ever competing in the Liam McCarthy, too many grades in hurling, 3 grades was enough, that's why if they ever grade the football championship then they can only have 2 grades. Having 3 or 4 grades will destroy the game riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 13/06/2018 12:13:14 2110982 Link
My humble suggestion is; Munster and Connaught containing one group of 4 each. Leinster and Ulster containing two groups of 4 each. Top 2 from these six groups and 3 winners of a play-off from the 3rd placed teams into the Top 16. (Have provincial semi-finals in Leinster and Ulster, and provincial finals in all provinces.) The bottom team in each province should be relegated. Leinster and Ulster would have a relegation final between the bottom team from both groups. Second tier; 2 teams should playoff over two legs for promotion to the Munster, Connaught and Ulster championships. (New York or London would have to switch to Ulster.) 3 teams should playoff in a group of 3 with the winner promoted to the Leinster Championship. (An open invitation to Kilkenny if ever they want to be the fourth team!) The 4 promoted teams can enter an All-Ireland Intermediate Championship semi-finals and final. The final can be a curtain raiser to the Leinster Football Final in Croke Park. The winner can take the final place in the Top 16. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 13/06/2018 13:00:17 2111006 Link
Replying To riverboys: "There really can only be 2 different options for a tiered championship, either split the championship in 2 by having Division 1 and 2 teams in the race for Sam while Division 3 and 4 play in a 2nd tier championship. 2nd option is to have a system like the FA cup in soccer in England where the weaker counties play in a knock out competition then the big guns enter the championship at later rounds but to me the 2nd option is a non runner. Everybody is praising the hurling system but as a person from the weaker counties it doesn't seem to be helping us, the National League seems more balanced, in championship hurling as of 2017 Mayo were in the 2nd tier competition (Christy Ring) but as of 2018 we were in the 3rd tier without pucking a sliotar, Joe McDonagh was a new grade the 2nd grade, everything else slipped down a grade, this year Mayo were relegated from Christy Ring and next year 2019 we will be in the 4th tier Nicky Rackard this along with the cups being finished off before early to mid June serves no purpose, better off for our hurlers to concentrate or trying to achieve greater things for their clubs instead of playing for their county in sadly Mickey mouse competitions with no chance of ever competing in the Liam McCarthy, too many grades in hurling, 3 grades was enough, that's why if they ever grade the football championship then they can only have 2 grades. Having 3 or 4 grades will destroy the game" Hurling has too many tiers alright. The Kerry hurling manager was calling for teams to be added to the McDonagh Cup rather than the number of teams being reduced. Counties can bring about that change. All it requires is a bit communication between McDonagh Cup and Ring Cup teams in bringing a motion to congress. At least 4 Ring teams from this year should be promoted to a McDonagh Cup of 10 teams in two groups of 5. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 13/06/2018 14:05:51 2111046 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "My humble suggestion is; Munster and Connaught containing one group of 4 each. Leinster and Ulster containing two groups of 4 each. Top 2 from these six groups and 3 winners of a play-off from the 3rd placed teams into the Top 16. (Have provincial semi-finals in Leinster and Ulster, and provincial finals in all provinces.) The bottom team in each province should be relegated. Leinster and Ulster would have a relegation final between the bottom team from both groups. Second tier; 2 teams should playoff over two legs for promotion to the Munster, Connaught and Ulster championships. (New York or London would have to switch to Ulster.) 3 teams should playoff in a group of 3 with the winner promoted to the Leinster Championship. (An open invitation to Kilkenny if ever they want to be the fourth team!) The 4 promoted teams can enter an All-Ireland Intermediate Championship semi-finals and final. The final can be a curtain raiser to the Leinster Football Final in Croke Park. The winner can take the final place in the Top 16." Wouldn't make any sense, Munster and Connacht are the two smallest provinces. It would make much more sense to amalgamate Leinster and Munster and Ulster and Connacht. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 13/06/2018 14:06:02 2111047 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Wouldn't make any sense, Munster and Connacht are the two smallest provinces. It would make much more sense to amalgamate Leinster and Munster and Ulster and Connacht." Connaught and Munster are the smaller provinces. The provincial structure should remain however if the majority want it. In my suggestion 1 in 4 teams from Munster and Connaught are relegated. 1 in 8 teams from Leinster and Ulster are relegated. 2 teams from 4 in Munster and Connaught advance to the Top 16. 4 teams from 8 in Leinster and Ulster advance to the Top 16. The 6 third placed teams playoff for 3 spots in the Top 16. The final Top 16 place is awarded to the Intermediate winner. The Top 16 should be 4 groups of 4. Provincial winners rewarded with 2 home games. Provincial runners-up should also rewarded 2 home games with the exception of the provincial runners-up drawn in the same group as the Intermediate winner. The advantage of being provincial champions would be guaranteed home games against rivals ranked 2 and 3 in the group. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 13/06/2018 15:25:18 2111102 Link
The pitiful coverage given to hurling below the top tier should be a warning for anyone calling for a tiered football championship. Below the Dublin/Kerry/Mayo top tier there would be no coverage if it. M Lyster (Antrim) - Posts: 461 - 13/06/2018 23:05:22 2111338 Link
Replying To M Lyster: "The pitiful coverage given to hurling below the top tier should be a warning for anyone calling for a tiered football championship. Below the Dublin/Kerry/Mayo top tier there would be no coverage if it." 100% I'd be really worried about the interest in football in counties that ended up consistently being in the second tier. I think League has to be played at a better time of year to be played and the fixtures sorted to fit in club action better. The championship should remain open to all though. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 14/06/2018 13:16:26 2111477 Link
The McDonagh Cup is like a second tier provincial championship. The highlights of at least one game a week should be shown on the Sunday Game and the final should be live on tv. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 14/06/2018 16:21:47 2111559 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "Both those URLs are from January and Duffy, thankfully, is no longer the Director General. Good and revealing interview with him on Off the Ball where he talked a lot but said very little. link The GAA need to talk to players, coaches and supporters when they talk about the tiered system proposal. They don't seem to have talked to anyone before pushing the Super 8 proposal. That effectively relegates the remaining counties to second class citizens in terms of media coverage and exposure which can help bring in much needed sponsors and advertising revenue. In a week that Waterford footballers make history but barely mentioned on The Sunday Game. They schedule Sligo footballers and hurlers for the same day and the dual player has to decide between them. Croke Park don't seem to be accountable to anyone, and they're spending taxpayers money. There used to be a TV show where the staff could takeover a business when management stood aside for a few weeks. I honestly think we could get brilliant people who volunteer at grassroots level to do a better job in Croke Park for all the GAA and not just the elite level." I agree completely with you. Lip service is all that is given to bringing the weaker counties up. I remember going to see a hurling game between Mayo and Waterford with Joe Henry of Mayo giving an exhibition. If he was given the media cover deserved many more kids in Mayo would aspire to be Joe Henry. Waterford won promotion to the first division of the football league in the 70,s and only went down on scoring average, drawing with a great Offaly team and Cork. Tom Gough and the late Greg Fives would not give a look at the ball to any other mid fielders in Ireland. In later years in a under 21 game in Killarney the great Mike Sheehy said John Galvin the hurling all-star roasted him. Waterford will probably take a beating from Monaghan but these players will go out and give it their best. There would be more top players playing for them only for the abuse the county board gave them in the club game. No representative in the club/championship one year and having to play the county final on a Sat. and a munster game on Sun. another year. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 14/06/2018 19:02:57 2111600 Link
Get rid of the league. play the province feb to apr round robin. single group basis for connachtand munster championships.2 groups basis for ulster and Leinster. Play finals in Connacht and Muster. Semis and finals in Leinster and ulster. Championship May-Aug separate to provinces. 2 levels. (2 groups of 8 in each). top 4 make semi final in division2. Teams who make division 2 final are promoted and go into the all ireland series. Top 6 in division 1 make the quarter final. the 7th and 8th place teams in division 1 play the top 2 in division 2 to get the last 2 births in the quarter finals. Knockout thereafter. Everybody has a route to sam in the above but there will be much more even matches through the year and the div2 teams have chance of winning something centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 360 - 14/06/2018 21:43:31 2111649 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The McDonagh Cup is like a second tier provincial championship. The highlights of at least one game a week should be shown on the Sunday Game and the final should be live on tv." Why don't the GAA give the mcdonagh cup games to tg4 ? they do a great job. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 14/06/2018 22:29:53 2111671 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "My humble suggestion is; Munster and Connaught containing one group of 4 each. Leinster and Ulster containing two groups of 4 each. Top 2 from these six groups and 3 winners of a play-off from the 3rd placed teams into the Top 16. (Have provincial semi-finals in Leinster and Ulster, and provincial finals in all provinces.) The bottom team in each province should be relegated. Leinster and Ulster would have a relegation final between the bottom team from both groups. Second tier; 2 teams should playoff over two legs for promotion to the Munster, Connaught and Ulster championships. (New York or London would have to switch to Ulster.) 3 teams should playoff in a group of 3 with the winner promoted to the Leinster Championship. (An open invitation to Kilkenny if ever they want to be the fourth team!) The 4 promoted teams can enter an All-Ireland Intermediate Championship semi-finals and final. The final can be a curtain raiser to the Leinster Football Final in Croke Park. The winner can take the final place in the Top 16." That's the lines I would go on but counties need to want a second tier championship and the performances of Fermanagh, Carlow, Longford and Laois this year strengthen the argument of counties who don't want a second tier championship. Personally I would take your round robin suggestion and include all the teams so...... Connacht - One group of 6 (New York logistically could be a problem but perhaps a preliminary game between themselves and London to see who enters the round robin??). Top two into provincial final Munster - One group of 6. Top two into provincial final. Leinster - 2 groups (one with 6 and one with 5, alternated each year) Top two in each group into semi finals Ulster - 2 groups (one with 5 and one with 4 alternated each year) Top two in each group into semi finals. The provincial winners go straight into Super 8's. The two third placed Leinster teams and two third placed Ulster teams play off against each other to see who joins the third placed Munster and Connacht teams in an open draw with the four beaten provincial finalists to see who goes into the Super 8's with the provincial champions. Round robin played on home and away basis irregardless of capacity, play off games in Ulster and Leinster at neutral venues as are the games against the beaten provincial finalists to decide who goes into the Super 8's I definitely think running the provincials on a round robin basis with all teams included should be the way to start and see if the extra games and games against top level opposition bring about improvements in the perceived "weaker counties". If it doesn't and a regular pattern emerges then it makes the case dmfkr a second tier championship that bit stronger Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 15/06/2018 00:21:36 2111697 Link
Replying To Richieq: "That's the lines I would go on but counties need to want a second tier championship and the performances of Fermanagh, Carlow, Longford and Laois this year strengthen the argument of counties who don't want a second tier championship. Personally I would take your round robin suggestion and include all the teams so...... Connacht - One group of 6 (New York logistically could be a problem but perhaps a preliminary game between themselves and London to see who enters the round robin??). Top two into provincial final Munster - One group of 6. Top two into provincial final. Leinster - 2 groups (one with 6 and one with 5, alternated each year) Top two in each group into semi finals Ulster - 2 groups (one with 5 and one with 4 alternated each year) Top two in each group into semi finals. The provincial winners go straight into Super 8's. The two third placed Leinster teams and two third placed Ulster teams play off against each other to see who joins the third placed Munster and Connacht teams in an open draw with the four beaten provincial finalists to see who goes into the Super 8's with the provincial champions. Round robin played on home and away basis irregardless of capacity, play off games in Ulster and Leinster at neutral venues as are the games against the beaten provincial finalists to decide who goes into the Super 8's I definitely think running the provincials on a round robin basis with all teams included should be the way to start and see if the extra games and games against top level opposition bring about improvements in the perceived "weaker counties". If it doesn't and a regular pattern emerges then it makes the case dmfkr a second tier championship that bit stronger" If all counties won't budge, I would agree with that. In time it could turn out something like I've suggested with 6 of 4. On provincial groups that you've outlined, I suggest the following; Munster - 1 group of 6. Connaught + New York - 1 group of 6. Leinster - 1 group of 6 and 1 group of 5. Ulster + London - 2 groups of 5. Top 2 in all Leinster and Ulster groups into provincial semi-finals. Top 2 in Munster and Connaught into provincial final. All-Ireland series; Playoffs: Provincial runners-up drawn against Leinster and Ulster losing semi-finalists. Quarter-finals: Provincial champions at home drawn against playoff winners. (Similar to this year's hurling championship, in groups of 5 or 6 where each team has at least 2 home games, there is no need nor weeks available for a second group stage.) In time the groups of 5 and 6 above could be cut to a more elite 6 groups of 4. Top 2 from each group into the Final 16. 3 of the 6 third placed teams after a play-off into the Final 16. All teams outside the provincial championships into a second championship. Stage the second championship final as a curtain raiser to the Leinster Football Final. The second championship winners can be awarded the 16th place in the Final 16. The Final 16 could then be 4 groups of 4. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 15/06/2018 20:51:43 2111976 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Why don't the GAA give the mcdonagh cup games to tg4 ? they do a great job." Agree 100% that JMCD Cup and even the Ring Cup should be put up for TV Companies to bid for separately to the LMCC. In the same way those worried about coverage of a Div 2 football championship could be shown by another TV Company, not necessary that RTE shows it. Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts: 346 - 15/06/2018 21:19:16 2111982 Link
I'd more or less copy what they do in English soccer. League is King The FA Cup would be our Provincial Championship I'd have 3 leagues. The top four sides in Division one of our league would go into the All-Ireland Semi-finals. I know this way all teams cant have a go at winning Sam but maybe, just maybe teams like me own Westmeath are probably closer to winning the Grand National at the moment and working their way up the leagues would be healthier for players and supporters. It would also give players a defined season and run properly, like in England with International breaks, we could have club breaks to keep those poor devils interested. Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 15/06/2018 21:39:23 2111991 Link
Replying To Ban: "I'd more or less copy what they do in English soccer. League is King The FA Cup would be our Provincial Championship I'd have 3 leagues. The top four sides in Division one of our league would go into the All-Ireland Semi-finals. I know this way all teams cant have a go at winning Sam but maybe, just maybe teams like me own Westmeath are probably closer to winning the Grand National at the moment and working their way up the leagues would be healthier for players and supporters. It would also give players a defined season and run properly, like in England with International breaks, we could have club breaks to keep those poor devils interested." This is the problem more than anything. Players need a defined season. I think there's a lot of good things about the current setup it's just badly played off. The season needs to start in March and every team needs to get semi regular league games, finishing with an All Ireland. Week 1 NFL1 Week 2 NFL2 Week 3 NFL3 Week 4 Ulster and Leinster 1st round Week 5 Break Week 6 Club football Week 7 Break Week 8 NFL 4 Week 9 NFL 5 Week 10 Provincial quarterfinals Week 11 Break Week 12 Club football Week 13 Break Week 14 NFL 6 Week 15 Provincial semifinals Week 16 Break Week 17 Club football Week 18 Break Week 19 NFL 7 Week 20 Provincial finals, AI round 1 Week 21 Break Week 22 AI round 2 (last 24) Week 23 AI round 3 (last 16) Week 24 Break Week 25 AI quarterfinals Week 26 AI semifinals Week 27 Break Week 28 AI final Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 16/06/2018 08:12:33 2112035 Link