National Forum

Umpires

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Replying To riverboys:  "Hawkeye has to be in every county ground, doesn't matter if the end result is a draw or a 20 point win, a wrong call is a wrong call, Hawkeye and TV technology can clear up most issues"
Realistically you need a stand on 2 sides of the ground for Hawkeye to work. That's why it's ok in Croke Park and Thurles but is unlikely to be at any other county ground. If Casement ever gets built it will probably have it as well.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2212 - 04/06/2018 13:51:22    2107286

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Replying To witnof:  "Any chance of getting the facts right? The ref consulted with both umpires after the goal incident.

Anyway it should never had been a free if the Waterford player hadn't stupidly thrown.

It was never a goal, but the reaction in the media, social and otherwise, with ex-players saying the umpire should never be let near a game again is way over the top.

I am sure he feels bad today, they are human like us all, and for all we know a man who gives huge time to the game,

Once he did not do it deliberately I don't mind, it is a sport not live of death.

Brendan Cummins saying the umpire was smiling coming off was also a disgrace...can Mr. Cummins tell us what was been shouted at the umpire. I am sure it wasn't well wishes."
If he properly consulted with both umpires, then that actually makes the outcome even less excusable. It means that either (a) the second umpire also got the call wrong despite having a perfect unimpeded view of everything or (b) the second umpire did not emphatically tell the ref that it was no goal or (c) the ref chose to completely ignore the advice of the second umpire. None of these scenarios can be regarded as reasonable human error - they are all evidence of gross incompetence.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 759 - 04/06/2018 16:11:01    2107333

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Replying To Pinkie:  "The reason they should be referees is because they would be the best placed person on the pitch in a lot of cases to call a penalty for example. He is far better placed than a referee running his best from the 65 after a long clearance, in hurling anyway!
Don't get me started on the lads in the European soccer - they might as well have our umpires.
Re that point v Cork - that umpire was the referee's father. Only in GAA. Imagine Pierluigi Collina having his father running the line."
Your dead right, most times they have a far better view of what's happening.
The linesman are both referees and their main job is to point a flag left or right, yet the most unqualified lads of all are the ones giving the scores or square balls, its absolute madness.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 492 - 05/06/2018 15:55:39    2107752

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Replying To Gaillimh_Abu:  "If he properly consulted with both umpires, then that actually makes the outcome even less excusable. It means that either (a) the second umpire also got the call wrong despite having a perfect unimpeded view of everything or (b) the second umpire did not emphatically tell the ref that it was no goal or (c) the ref chose to completely ignore the advice of the second umpire. None of these scenarios can be regarded as reasonable human error - they are all evidence of gross incompetence."
What referees should be doing is asking the umpires to stay apart for the discussion so he can hear 2 independant views. Also we need to get away from this myth that there's one umpire for the goals and one for the points. There's 3 opinions an umpire can have; yes, no and I don't know. Too many would rather be wrong than admit that they don't know.
In the Monaghan v Tyrone game the other week, Tyrone scored a last minute goal from a 50, which should have been a kickout. Now, no one cared because we were 5 points up but it was obvious that the umpire didn't know what had happened but instead of saying that, he guessed. Now, this isn't anything like the mistake made on Sunday, but it goes to show that poor umpiring is common.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 248 - 05/06/2018 16:34:18    2107761

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "What referees should be doing is asking the umpires to stay apart for the discussion so he can hear 2 independant views. Also we need to get away from this myth that there's one umpire for the goals and one for the points. There's 3 opinions an umpire can have; yes, no and I don't know. Too many would rather be wrong than admit that they don't know.
In the Monaghan v Tyrone game the other week, Tyrone scored a last minute goal from a 50, which should have been a kickout. Now, no one cared because we were 5 points up but it was obvious that the umpire didn't know what had happened but instead of saying that, he guessed. Now, this isn't anything like the mistake made on Sunday, but it goes to show that poor umpiring is common."
I would suspect the umpire nearest the incident didn't see anything (because there was nothing to see). If the other umpire was emphatic he saw a goal then it is his call. All the umpire nearest the incident can say to ref is, I didn't see so basically he didn't know. We are assuming the ref nearest the incident saw what happened but clearly he had his doubts. So when the ref asked both he got a "don't know" and a definite "goal" so what would you do as a ref? ATST there has to be a now a 4th official with a monitor this is a joke of a result. BTW we have two qualified ref's on sidelines doing virtually nothing while we have 4 unqualified ref's making life and death decisions in terms of the game - madness.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 3842 - 05/06/2018 17:32:04    2107786

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Replying To arock:  "I would suspect the umpire nearest the incident didn't see anything (because there was nothing to see). If the other umpire was emphatic he saw a goal then it is his call. All the umpire nearest the incident can say to ref is, I didn't see so basically he didn't know. We are assuming the ref nearest the incident saw what happened but clearly he had his doubts. So when the ref asked both he got a "don't know" and a definite "goal" so what would you do as a ref? ATST there has to be a now a 4th official with a monitor this is a joke of a result. BTW we have two qualified ref's on sidelines doing virtually nothing while we have 4 unqualified ref's making life and death decisions in terms of the game - madness."
Agree, but once the far lad put up the flag it was never going to be taken away from Tipp

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 06/06/2018 19:37:35    2108182

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The ref said today he is sorry they got it wrong. Not nearly as sorry as the 30 guys on the waterford panel, the management team and the supporters. Are we so suppose to feel sorry for him?
He had an opportunity to do different.
1. Not to be so bullish when the Waterford players protested and have more discussion with the umpires asking if they were 100% positive it was a goal and only granting it if both were certain, especially the one on that pole.
2. If he had not earlier decided to bring Tipp back into the game with his marginal calls.
3. If he did not select the one of many incidents of throwing the ball to penalize.
4. If unlike the goal call he did not decide to overrule the same umpire.
5. If he did not make sure he gave a free to level the game with the last stroke of the ball.
Sometimes you reap what you sow. He should look back not just on the goal call but how his over all performance managed to engineer a draw for Tipp.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 346 - 07/06/2018 00:28:23    2108258

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