|
I personally like the Jersey and a nice touch by the CCB. I think other counties should do the same and commemorate there fallen hero's during these centenary years.
pkboher (Cork) - Posts: 49 - 21/02/2020 19:15:30
2268861
Link
5
|
|
Replying To Mayfair: "Ah! Thanks to Mr Trump the convenient world of the "alternative fact" that we all live in. If facts don't agree with my perception just deny them. It doesn't really matter where the name came from originally, but don't deny it! A few handy references; https://northoltgrange.wordpress.com/2016/09/27/but-why-call-it-the-rebel-county/ https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2017-04/Heritage%20Centenary%20Sites%20.pdf https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/if-not-for-collins-why-is-it-called-the-rebel-county-29469436.html Trump" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.discoveringcork.ie/an-irreverent-short-history-of-cork/"
DuhallowRed (Cork) - Posts: 267 - 21/02/2020 19:15:30
2268862
Link
2
|
|
Very uncomfortable with this. Whatever about McSwiney and McCurtain commemorating the Kilmichael ambush is way too far. The only people who commemorate that event are the provisional IRA. The same lowlifes who are apologists for the killers of Jerry McCabe. If the State doesn't recognise the Kilmichael ambush as an event worthy of commemoration then the Cork County Board should have the sense to steer well clear. Sense and the Cork County Board don't often go together, of course.
Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1412 - 21/02/2020 20:21:10
2268878
Link
7
|
|
Replying To Onion Breath: "Very uncomfortable with this. Whatever about McSwiney and McCurtain commemorating the Kilmichael ambush is way too far. The only people who commemorate that event are the provisional IRA. The same lowlifes who are apologists for the killers of Jerry McCabe. If the State doesn't recognise the Kilmichael ambush as an event worthy of commemoration then the Cork County Board should have the sense to steer well clear. Sense and the Cork County Board don't often go together, of course." A lot you'd know, boy
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 21/02/2020 21:00:42
2268888
Link
9
|
|
Replying To Onion Breath: "Very uncomfortable with this. Whatever about McSwiney and McCurtain commemorating the Kilmichael ambush is way too far. The only people who commemorate that event are the provisional IRA. The same lowlifes who are apologists for the killers of Jerry McCabe. If the State doesn't recognise the Kilmichael ambush as an event worthy of commemoration then the Cork County Board should have the sense to steer well clear. Sense and the Cork County Board don't often go together, of course." What's the states official position on Kilmichael? I had just assumed that local events like that were left to locals to commemorate.
And yes there is dispute around the actions of the IRA that day but what event wasn't controversial in that or any guerilla war
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 21/02/2020 21:18:35
2268894
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Onion Breath: "Very uncomfortable with this. Whatever about McSwiney and McCurtain commemorating the Kilmichael ambush is way too far. The only people who commemorate that event are the provisional IRA. The same lowlifes who are apologists for the killers of Jerry McCabe. If the State doesn't recognise the Kilmichael ambush as an event worthy of commemoration then the Cork County Board should have the sense to steer well clear. Sense and the Cork County Board don't often go together, of course." Actually, I see a need to reclaim events such as Killmichael from the Provo's; it was an important moment in the War of Independence and deserves to be celebrated at some level. But let's be clear; it was a military action and has no business on a sports jersey. Surely even the most ardent supporter of commemoration would view this as an insult to the participants. What's next? How would we feel if other countries started showing up in jerseys to commemorate significant moments in their country's military history? The Somme Away jersey for English soccer teams? Team USA showing up in Hiroshima shirts? It's in very poor taste, and has nothing to do with sport. They'd be brought to book very quickly. Why Cork feel the need to politicize their team like this, completely eludes me.
festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 21/02/2020 21:19:14
2268895
Link
4
|
|
Replying To festinog: "Actually, I see a need to reclaim events such as Killmichael from the Provo's; it was an important moment in the War of Independence and deserves to be celebrated at some level. But let's be clear; it was a military action and has no business on a sports jersey. Surely even the most ardent supporter of commemoration would view this as an insult to the participants. What's next? How would we feel if other countries started showing up in jerseys to commemorate significant moments in their country's military history? The Somme Away jersey for English soccer teams? Team USA showing up in Hiroshima shirts? It's in very poor taste, and has nothing to do with sport. They'd be brought to book very quickly. Why Cork feel the need to politicize their team like this, completely eludes me." I find the jerseys a bit cheesy personally I would prefer just to have something small near the crest like the soccer team had.
But equating it to international teams is wrong as the chances of anyone outside of Ireland/diaspora seeing is slim and then understand it even slimmer also the US do commemorate battles in sport and so do the English both countries love wheeling out the army before a game.
My absolute favourite though is all the 4th July stuff in England the country that lost that war which the English seem oblivious to the fact of
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 21/02/2020 21:58:52
2268905
Link
0
|
|
Replying To essmac: "A lot you'd know, boy" I know plenty about it thanks very much, my dear boy.
Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1412 - 21/02/2020 22:44:43
2268911
Link
2
|
|
Next up in true GAA style, one county celebrating an event on the Treaty side & another county celebrating an event on the Anti Treaty side, what a spectacle that will create.
Nearly every Irish family has a complex sample of history, family members in the RIC & in the old IRA, family members on the anti Treaty side or pro Treaty side. Like all matters currently within the GAA this is a mess. The family from Eastern Europe playing GAA in Cork will have no idea what's going on. The whole thing about inclusivity promoted by the GAA is not going to attract too many from the Protestant community in Cork with the new Jersey. Imagine if the new jersey was promoting white supremacy, the uproar there would be.
I am very proud of my nationalist roots & my family's history but I don't go around forcing it on anybody or celebrating past events that open old wounds. There is one way & that is forward, not backwards, looking back on all sides just reopens all the old wounds & reignites tension.
Cork GAA are entitled to do as they wish but it seems that it loves controversy, I think their mishandling of the whole PUC build & ultimate debt is a bigger issue as it will eventually affect clubs & their county teams, the jersey debate is probably a welcome distraction.
Maybe a solution to their debt crisis would be a game with the Cork seniors & the new Jersey v the PSNI GAA team, guaranteed to fill the stadium !
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 22/02/2020 11:53:08
2268953
Link
4
|
|
Replying To Onion Breath: "Very uncomfortable with this. Whatever about McSwiney and McCurtain commemorating the Kilmichael ambush is way too far. The only people who commemorate that event are the provisional IRA. The same lowlifes who are apologists for the killers of Jerry McCabe. If the State doesn't recognise the Kilmichael ambush as an event worthy of commemoration then the Cork County Board should have the sense to steer well clear. Sense and the Cork County Board don't often go together, of course." Tiocfaidh ar La anois.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 22/02/2020 13:02:35
2268972
Link
1
|
|
Replying To festinog: "Actually, I see a need to reclaim events such as Killmichael from the Provo's; it was an important moment in the War of Independence and deserves to be celebrated at some level. But let's be clear; it was a military action and has no business on a sports jersey. Surely even the most ardent supporter of commemoration would view this as an insult to the participants. What's next? How would we feel if other countries started showing up in jerseys to commemorate significant moments in their country's military history? The Somme Away jersey for English soccer teams? Team USA showing up in Hiroshima shirts? It's in very poor taste, and has nothing to do with sport. They'd be brought to book very quickly. Why Cork feel the need to politicize their team like this, completely eludes me." I agree with your point to keep wars off the Jersey, this will not speed up the unification of Ireland. But Hiroshima? Seriously? Ireland was attacked viciously by a power that had ethnic cleansing on the brain. Brits ware a poppy or a rose on their jerseys I think celebrating victory, I don't watch them to be honest.
maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 22/02/2020 13:19:33
2268973
Link
0
|
|
There's nothing wrong or controversial about Cork commemorating Tomas Mac Curtain and Terence MacSwiney, I just don't think that it should be done on a county sports shirt. If a Cork player objected and refused to wear the shirt, would he be given a different shirt to wear, and risk being barracked and abused by spectators (like James McClean who refuses to wear a poppy on his shirt); or maybe not even picked to play. It's a slippery slope.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2453 - 22/02/2020 13:40:29
2268980
Link
3
|
|
Replying To catch22: "Modern Ireland ? You must be of that so if you have that kind of superficial attitude. God help us if you're a sign of the future." I'm part of "modern Ireland" I would say. I just finished college and have friends from all religions, race and creed.
Imagine being part of "modern Ireland" that thinks we shouldn't move on and make sure GAA is more inclusive? What does it say to immigrants, etc, some of which moved from England to here, about GAA psyche?
I don't care if I am in the minority view. This is an antiquated move. The GAA should be about more than this in this day and age.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 22/02/2020 14:16:52
2268986
Link
6
|
|
Replying To Breezy: "What's the states official position on Kilmichael? I had just assumed that local events like that were left to locals to commemorate.
And yes there is dispute around the actions of the IRA that day but what event wasn't controversial in that or any guerilla war" Dispute from revisionists certainly and a certain unlamented late Canadian "historian" beloved of the same, whose claims were comprehensively demolished in History Ireland a few years back.
Fair play to Cork for having the pride in commissioning such a jersey. A pity more counties wouldn't do likewise.
Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 859 - 22/02/2020 14:39:23
2268997
Link
7
|
|
Where does the idea come from that Kilmichael remembered on the commemorative Cork Jersey. Official release notes make no mention of it. What is depicted there, as well at the two Lord Mayors, is the burning of Cork city.
Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 643 - 22/02/2020 15:09:22
2269003
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Midleton: "Where does the idea come from that Kilmichael remembered on the commemorative Cork Jersey. Official release notes make no mention of it. What is depicted there, as well at the two Lord Mayors, is the burning of Cork city." Its on the back of thr jersey
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 22/02/2020 15:34:26
2269012
Link
0
|
|
Never knew there were so many Fine Gael voters on Hogan stand
11jm11 (Kildare) - Posts: 365 - 22/02/2020 17:23:01
2269036
Link
3
|
|
Replying To moc.dna: "Next up in true GAA style, one county celebrating an event on the Treaty side & another county celebrating an event on the Anti Treaty side, what a spectacle that will create.
Nearly every Irish family has a complex sample of history, family members in the RIC & in the old IRA, family members on the anti Treaty side or pro Treaty side. Like all matters currently within the GAA this is a mess. The family from Eastern Europe playing GAA in Cork will have no idea what's going on. The whole thing about inclusivity promoted by the GAA is not going to attract too many from the Protestant community in Cork with the new Jersey. Imagine if the new jersey was promoting white supremacy, the uproar there would be.
I am very proud of my nationalist roots & my family's history but I don't go around forcing it on anybody or celebrating past events that open old wounds. There is one way & that is forward, not backwards, looking back on all sides just reopens all the old wounds & reignites tension.
Cork GAA are entitled to do as they wish but it seems that it loves controversy, I think their mishandling of the whole PUC build & ultimate debt is a bigger issue as it will eventually affect clubs & their county teams, the jersey debate is probably a welcome distraction.
Maybe a solution to their debt crisis would be a game with the Cork seniors & the new Jersey v the PSNI GAA team, guaranteed to fill the stadium !" There are many Protestants in Cork who play GAA and would have no problem with the shirt, as many Protestants were patriots as well. The Protestant/catholic divide was not near as toxic down here. I think in the north, Catholic had to deal with an entirely different problem, which of course had a very different set of issues.
I am conflicted on this. I like the jersey and think these events should be commemorated, but I do agree that politics should be kept out of sport.
Separately, I don't see commemorating the war of independence and patriots as controversial however. We don't need to apologise for being republicans and wanting our own sovereignty. The British understand that as much as anybody.
BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 311 - 22/02/2020 18:01:27
2269041
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Breezy: "I find the jerseys a bit cheesy personally I would prefer just to have something small near the crest like the soccer team had.
But equating it to international teams is wrong as the chances of anyone outside of Ireland/diaspora seeing is slim and then understand it even slimmer also the US do commemorate battles in sport and so do the English both countries love wheeling out the army before a game.
My absolute favourite though is all the 4th July stuff in England the country that lost that war which the English seem oblivious to the fact of" I have to say, I lived in London for over 30 years and I have never seen a 4th of July celebration outside of an American bar. That's a strange comment by you I think.
BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 311 - 22/02/2020 18:05:01
2269042
Link
3
|
|
Replying To BaldyBadger: "There are many Protestants in Cork who play GAA and would have no problem with the shirt, as many Protestants were patriots as well. The Protestant/catholic divide was not near as toxic down here. I think in the north, Catholic had to deal with an entirely different problem, which of course had a very different set of issues.
I am conflicted on this. I like the jersey and think these events should be commemorated, but I do agree that politics should be kept out of sport.
Separately, I don't see commemorating the war of independence and patriots as controversial however. We don't need to apologise for being republicans and wanting our own sovereignty. The British understand that as much as anybody." I think the British do understand but those lot up north who are loyal to the crown are a different breed altogether.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11229 - 22/02/2020 18:12:06
2269044
Link
8
|