After watching a half Fit Kerry against a fully Fit Cork. Im very impressed with Monaghan Manager. We thought we were close but they ve their eye on August. That im not joking about. Looking at the conditioning off Cork & Kerry , physically we re 4 years behind. Like Monaghan we ll probably get there in late 20 s ..

I watched the Derry Highlights game in 2013 and if going by that we ve gone backwards there was better footballers out that day.

So lets be honest here? We were a game away from relegation not promotion. We re not physical enough to play keep ball nor to run at big defences. So id put us at 10th-12th in the country.

Denn Man (Cavan) - Posts: 413 - 08/07/2015 14:09:54    1749871

You shouldn't get too caught up in the trap of being overly negative after a bad loss . We're in that group of teams that will have more bad days than good but you need to keep your head up . There are very few teams than will feel all is rosy in the garden - 5 max - and even at that they will have their worries .

After our championship campaign I'd say you've ranked us a little high (and there was me saying not to be negative) . I'd say somewhere between 12 - 18 th but this ranking can change rapidly after a few good wins or bad losses - I think there is that little between a lot of counties . The reason I have us there is because I don't think we're a top Division 2 team yet but I do feel we can survive again . Having said that I would not be overly shocked if we flirt with Division 3 and make a return to it .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 08/07/2015 14:41:49    1749894

Thanks for that Denn Man ... very helpful.

not sure how you made out we were one game away from relegation but not promotion.

If we had beaten Meath in our last game by 8 points we would have got promoted.
even if we had lost one more game , whether that was against: Laois, Westmeath or Galway we still would not have been relegated.

we would have been on 5 points. There were 3 counties below us. 2 of them on 4 points (Kildare and Westmeath) and one on 5 points (Laois)

so if Laois had beaten us, they would have been on 7 , we would have been on 5 and Westmeath and Kildare on 4.
If westmeath had beaten us then we would been on 5, Laois would been on 5 (and we would won the head-to-head) and Kildare on 4.

If galway had beaten us , again both Westmeath and Kildare would still have been below us on 4 points.

so I don't see how you can say we were one game away from relegation but not from Promotion. Promotion was actually in our own hands on the last day.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 08/07/2015 14:42:10    1749895

We are about 18th

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 08/07/2015 19:06:27    1750115

Where is this boy going with his top 10?

We'd be no further than 16th. And I'll post the next HS ratings on here for you all to see. Some of you are very deluded to the obvious failings in Cavan football.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 08/07/2015 19:25:26    1750123

it's impossible to rate teams . the only ratings that are of an use are the league positions. so we are 13th.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 08/07/2015 19:34:35    1750124

1 Dublin
2 Kerry
3 Donegal
4 Mayo
5 Cork
6 Monaghan
7 Tyrone
8 Galway
9 Derry
10 Roscommon
11 Armagh
12 Meath
14 Down
15 Kildare
16 Cavan
17 Westmeath
18 Fermanagh

MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 493 - 08/07/2015 19:42:29    1750127

We re anything from 11th to 16th

My point was cavan fans are expecting too much from this squad & this management team.

New York & London trips was great for these guys now its time to get these guys in condition for 4-5 hard years .

Ulster is not won on the back off U21 s anymore its taking longer

Stop being so high strung too!

Denn Man (Cavan) - Posts: 413 - 09/07/2015 09:55:27    1750286

MadgeKing


You're like an American Hotel there - no number 13?

I presume you'll take Laois, the only Division 2 team you haven't placed ahead of us, and slot them in there. That's the most glass-half-empty attempt to rank teams I have seen. As someone already mentioned, we finished 13th in league terms. We lost in the championship to teams who finished above us and who are both Division 1 next year (and we were unlucky in BOTH games). So I think 13th is about right.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 09/07/2015 10:26:44    1750309

When did we beat a team of note?
Derry in 2013 was our biggest scalp.
We are no higher than 18th i'd say.
Poor return for all the effort and investment.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 09/07/2015 10:36:32    1750319

I'll tell you where we are ,2 ulster senior titles in 36 years that's where we're at.
So many false dawns and let downs.
Doesn't matter where we're rated or not.
I saw Cavan beat Sigo comfortably in div 3 and Westmeath similarly in div 2 and look where they are , Connacht final and Leinster final respectively.
Something drastically wrong and it needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
Players as much as management need to take a good look at themselves because it looks like we're decades of winning anything.

desagov (Cavan) - Posts: 207 - 09/07/2015 11:06:38    1750341

Look we are team building . This process started in 2011 . U think Rome was built in a day?? Let Terry do it his way . There no pressure on him because he was a great u21 manager. Didn't we beat Derry 2 years ago? Away? What more do u want . We beat London twice since . We beat New York in the inter continental final. And that was played away as well . Look at all the pitch openings we won too! Terry said it would probably be 2019 before we were anywhere near ready to get past the first round. So stay strong. Believe ! The future is blue! Cabhain Abu .

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 09/07/2015 11:47:07    1750376

Go to any club game in Cavan and very few County players stand out because of their skill, if they do stand out, its more because of their fitness and physique, however, most club players are now catching with them because a lot of them are spending more time in the gym and increased training.

Now go to a Club game in one of the Top Counties, you'll pick out a County player a mile away not only because of their strength and physique but because of their skill.

The truth is, the majority of Cavan Players are simply not County Standard and I would argue that within the County, we do not have quality players. If you picked a good 15 non-County players from various clubs, Id put money on them that they'd run the current County team close.

deanmartin (Cavan) - Posts: 643 - 09/07/2015 12:46:51    1750417

If Cavan had a Conor McMAnus along with David Giveny, Keating, Kevin Tierney back in the ranks we'd be pushing for a top 7 place there'd be nothing between oursides and Monaghan If we had a Forward the caliber of McManus.

we have a sound defencive structure in place.. I wouldnt mind the roscommon break down cuz we were pushing on to try get back into the game and a man down and got caught twice on the break for goals,

Mick Aruge is an out and out Midfielder as well not a target man on the square he has been hit with alot of negative comments since the last game,

We need our strongest panel together with no drop offs to really make a burst for the Ulster or a run in the Qualifiers,

Also I cant see how Martin Dunne isn't in the team every week, with good ball supplied he kicks scores rarely missed the target 2 years ago he was almost the top scorer in the championship!!!

Dr.Phil (Cavan) - Posts: 109 - 09/07/2015 13:02:08    1750430

there seems to be a self entitlement among Cavan fans, where they seem to think Cavan should be winning All Ireland's, one Senior Ulster title 45 years, in 1997 it had been 28 barren years, now we are 18 years into another barren spell, think about that for a while, can any of you tell me how many years in that 45 have Cavan played in Division 1 of the national league, I think it will be one or two, again what does that tell you, no club side from Cavan have won the Ulster Senior title either, only had a few even make the final, again what does that tell you of the state of Cavan football. and now only right now, but for four and a half decades.

Cavan last won an All Ireland in 1952, a full 63 years,
Cavan dominated football in Ulster most likely cos of the poor standard of Ulster football at the time, and not because we were any great shakes, for about forty years Cavan won Ulster almost every year, yet only managed to make it to 10 finals, winning 5, this suggest we were never as good as we would like to pretend we were, or seem to think we deserve to be now.

We have in the last 45 years also been by and large terrible at minor and u21, with only one Ulster minor title, and a couple more finals, our recent run of wins at U21 level is a step in the right direction, but the fact we did not manage to win an U21 All Ireland, and indeed only one final out of four is a poor return, again suggests we may have just been the best of a poor bunch in Ulster, it must be remembered that Tyrone this year became the first team from Ulster to win the U21 in ten years.

Club football is very poor in the county, we have too many clubs, too many poor teams, and now that every club in the county have good grounds, facilities, etc we are not going to see this problem ever change. It will take a massive overhaul of the structure of Cavan football to see us improve enough to be one of the elite counties at senior level. Is the will there, is the know how there, can it be done. I say it can be done, yes the rise of Tyrone 10 to 15 years ago and now Donegal show it can be done, but I still feel in Cavan is unlikely to be done, again for me I think the will to restructure club football is not in the clubs, too many petty rivalries, too much self interest.

Add in we have the age old problem of all weaker counties, persuading all your best players to commit and stay committed to the senior county team, knowing that its not only unlikely that you will ever win an All Ireland, but its even unlikely that you will win a provincial title. With what is required of players now at County level, its a daunting prospect to commit such time and effort with so little prospect of success. This is where the likes of Kerry, Dublin, Cork, Mayo have the upper hand, they all know that they have great chance at winning provincial titles at the very least, and for Kerry and Dublin they know a good chance of winning an All Ireland.

What realistic chance has any current footballer in Cavan of winning a senior All Ireland, its not even like we can say to a prospective squad member that if he plays for six or seven years with Cavan he is almost certain to win a couple of Ulster titles, as the history of the last four and a half decades suggest the complete opposite.

eduardo66 (Cavan) - Posts: 64 - 09/07/2015 13:21:05    1750444

eduardo66


that's far too simplistic a view to be taking IMO


what had Tyrone done outside of Ulster prior to 2003?
dublin won 1 All-Ireland title (1995) in 28years prior to 2011 and are now being dubbed "unstoppable"
armagh had done very little of note until the late 90s and then went on to dominate Ulster football - even outdoing Tyrone at provincial level

up until 2 weeks ago, Westmeath had NEVER beaten Meath in the Championship - does that mean they shouldn't have bothered showing up in Croke Park??


Now the reason for the optimism within Cavan at the moment is simple - we have enjoyed unprecedented success at under 21 level over the past few years, as well as minor level. When Donegal did this under McGuinness, and Tyrone did it under Harte, the improvement at senior success was almost immediate. It hasn't happened like that for Cavan. . .but why??

I put it down to 1 thing. .

The set-up into which the successful young players came into.
In Tyrone, Cavanagh, Gormley, Mulligan, McGuigan, McGinlay, McMenamin, McAnallan, Jordan, etc. came into a team containing Peter Canavan and Brian Dooher, among others.
In Donegal, their youngsters came into a team containing Karl Lacey, Christy Toye and Colm McFadden (although he needed a kick up the ****, he had the ability - and the ATTITUDE).

What kind of set up did the Cavan boys come into?? It was a shambles - and Terry has to be applauded for clearing out the dead wood.

I pointed out the other day on another thread that this team may not win anything of note - but they have plenty of ability and a great attitude. I think we will win another Ulster minor title next week and will continue to produce quality players. And these players will come into a much better set-up than those before them. There are players at Senior level - Rory Dunne, Gearoid, Mackey, Martin Reilly, etc. - who will make great role models and set a proper example for those coming in. We are not as far away in terms of Ulster as people think (a kick of the ball from beating Monaghan twice in the past 3 seasons) and I don't think anything drastic is needed - we have already made huge strides at underage level and are continuing to do so.


One thing I do agree with you on is the absence of some of our top players from the county panel. I'd like to see you name that 15 who you think would put it up to the current team. I'd say there's probable at least 4 who would improve the team greatly. . .

Eamonn Reilly for the Gaels - has been the best back in Cavan for the last decade but think he only played for 1 season (and Keoghan stuck him at full back!!). Would he give Cavan a couple of years?
David Givney - I think injury would have hampered any part he would have played this year had he committed but he is a gifted footballer
Eugene Keating - If Givney comes back, Eugene will follow. Badly missed, particularly v Roscommon
Seanie Johnson - Will always divide opinion due to what happened 4 years ago, but I said when he rejoined the Gaels; if it means the difference in winning an Ulster title and not winning one, I'd take him back in a heartbeat.

There's probably a few more (maybe Alan Clarke, Lorcan Mulvey) but those 4 would make a massive difference. Add those to an on-form Martin Dunne and a fit Rory Dunne and Killian Clarke and you've got a very different team to last week.

I do think it's time we looked for a new management team. The current guys seem to have taken the team as far as they can.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 09/07/2015 14:39:06    1750499

Awwwwnow
County: Cavan
Posts: 76

1750376
Look we are team building . This process started in 2011 . U think Rome was built in a day?? Let Terry do it his way . There no pressure on him because he was a great u21 manager. Didn't we beat Derry 2 years ago? Away? What more do u want . We beat London twice since . We beat New York in the inter continental final. And that was played away as well . Look at all the pitch openings we won too! Terry said it would probably be 2019 before we were anywhere near ready to get past the first round. So stay strong. Believe ! The future is blue! Cabhain Abu .

Haha, very good.

You forgot "we may have lost, BUT WE STILL SCORED 1-16".

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 09/07/2015 19:21:42    1750675

Eduardo, thats a super post.

cavanman47
County: Cavan
Posts: 1272

1750

The loss to Monaghan in 2013 was hard to take, but it was a new team and you could get over it given the fact we ran a seasoned team so close. But the yardstick to measure Hyland's tenure as manager came a few weeks ago in Breffni against the same opposition, but this time with home advantage. Everything was laid out for him.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 09/07/2015 19:29:34    1750676

Lads most of ye are still living in cuckoo land. All I'm hearing over the past month is that Cavan should have beat Monaghan. Same as 2013, but the big difference is you didn't. Monaghan are an experienced team that are competing in their 5th Ulster final since 2007. Massive resources have been put into the county set up, and senior club football is very strong in the county. Cavan can go two ways now, either become a nearly team or put the head down and get promoted to division one and compete in it for a season or two and then try to win a Ulster title, you are miles off at present. Armagh, Donegal Monaghan and Tyrone are probably ahead of ye at present.

room2 (Monaghan) - Posts: 96 - 09/07/2015 19:42:51    1750681

room2
County: Monaghan
Posts: 64

1750681
Lads most of ye are still living in cuckoo land. All I'm hearing over the past month is that Cavan should have beat Monaghan. Same as 2013, but the big difference is you didn't. Monaghan are an experienced team that are competing in their 5th Ulster final since 2007. Massive resources have been put into the county set up, and senior club football is very strong in the county. Cavan can go two ways now, either become a nearly team or put the head down and get promoted to division one and compete in it for a season or two and then try to win a Ulster title, you are miles off at present. Armagh, Donegal Monaghan and Tyrone are probably ahead of ye at present.

We are not miles off you lot. we are 1 point worse than you. if we played each other 10 times. I guarentee there would only be a few points in total in it overall. If you were that much better than us then why were you hanging on at the end this year and depended on our rookie keeper to miss a 45 at the end to come through. I would say yes we are miles off Donegal but certainly fairly close to yourselves,Armagh and Tyrone. There is far too much negativity on here fromour own supporters. they can't make up their minds whether it's management's fault or whether we don't have the players, whether we SHOULD be winning things or whether we have NO RIGHT to be winning things. We are not that far off. with our best squad available we would be a match for most bar the top 5 or 6.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 09/07/2015 20:29:48    1750704