Cavan Forum

Hastings Cup final

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Really - The Hasting Cup Final and All IReland final shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence. I think the lunatics must have escaped from the Asylum or maybe there is a full moon or something. Seldom have a I read such uncredible nonsense as I am reading here regarding a mickey mouse tournament.

FYI, Cavan won 4 Ulsters in a row and during that period I think won only one Hastings Cup.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1227 - 02/02/2016 11:27:32    1821557

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Why in your infinite wisdom did they bother winning that one Fred?
What a slip-up that was but then again maybe there were no Tyrone representatives present ha ha and they thought they'd get away with it.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 02/02/2016 12:05:10    1821582

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Should you not be in school slasher ha ha, lol, etc etc

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1227 - 02/02/2016 12:23:01    1821594

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Hi Fredflint - does that put into perspective then, the likes of the Breffni League and the new spring league?

deanmartin (Cavan) - Posts: 643 - 02/02/2016 12:31:19    1821597

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uncredible nonsense as I am reading here regarding a mickey mouse tournament.

They're only Mickey Mouse Tournaments when you don't win them !!!! Regardless of the status of the final you set out to win them, simple as. Its not a time to experiment !

My question. Was the net cast to select the panel or was it as it appears to be a closed shop?

FrDougalMaguire (Cavan) - Posts: 152 - 02/02/2016 12:36:32    1821601

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Exactly Dougal. They don't matter one iota when you lose or there's strangers watching.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 02/02/2016 15:40:34    1821674

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Douglas, there was a significant net cast for the panel. They kept a huge panel of 50 plus. Players that had never played county before were asked in. The players themselves were consulted about possible additions.

The final was about trying about players and getting a win if they could. It wasn't about playing a strongest 15. Peter Reilly did the same thing when in charge.

JonSmith (Cavan) - Posts: 1446 - 02/02/2016 16:14:48    1821682

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Deanmartin- I agree breffni league also a waste of time. Spring league I'm not up to speed on. County board need to overhaul club football but problem is clubs keep voting change down and there's nothing county board can do about that

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1227 - 02/02/2016 16:35:28    1821687

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Dean Martin, as you've repeatedly avoided my question on the Spring League, what is your proposal for the club league structure in Cavan?

Mighty man for telling us what's wrong. Not so much what's right out of you although I've a feeling I'm going to regret asking you.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 288 - 02/02/2016 17:21:17    1821709

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Douglas, there was a significant net cast for the panel. They kept a huge panel of 50 plus. Players that had never played county before were asked in. The players themselves were consulted about possible additions.

The final was about trying about players and getting a win if they could. It wasn't about playing a strongest 15. Peter Reilly did the same thing when in charge.

JonSmith (Cavan) - Posts:1291 - 02/02/2016 16:14:48

Jon, I beg to differ !!! The net must have been torn allowing a lot of big fish to escape.

Were clubs asked to send in possible contenders ? No

When were these trials ?

Did management attend or send representatives to all u21 championship games last year? No

Did they call in lads who excelled for their club senior teams during the Junior, Intermediate and senior championship? No

Asking the players to recommend players to come in . Now that's a new one. They are hardly likely to nominate someone to threaten their position or someone they don't like personally.

In the U21 championship there were young lads playing that matched current senior panellists for skill and in some cases were better than them, but the fact that they were from smaller clubs went against them. No matter how you try to argue this one, there is a bias in Cavan football.

Some of last years Minor panel were told from the start that they were lucky to be included and while they were better or a good as fellas who made the championship squad, they were always treated as second class citizens just because the manager had a grudge against them. These players went on to excel in the club championship for their senior teams, proving their worth.

Now possibly these players may not have been able to commit because of exams, travel etc, but they were not given the option. I know this for a fact !!!

If the selection process is not all encompassing then were are narrowing the talent pool. And this my good man is happening. This u21 team will not win Ulster.

The minor team last year was based on St Pats winning the Mc Crory cup and it back fired. When you analyse the performance last year in the Ulster League we beat a poor Monaghan team and a poor Antrim team.
In the Ulster/All Ireland Championship we beat the same poor Monaghan team and the same poor Antrim team.

A final is no place to try new players regardless of the status of the tournament. The preliminary rounds and challenge matches are the place for this

One final point. Its Dougal......... Fr Dougal Maguire :-)

FrDougalMaguire (Cavan) - Posts: 152 - 03/02/2016 10:21:47    1821813

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Sad to say but i do believe there is some truth in the above post

asitis (Cavan) - Posts: 233 - 03/02/2016 11:48:47    1821849

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Dónal,

You are obviously miffed that your clubmate(s) or friend was not included on the panel.

No form players for the Junior Champions were included? Apart from the 5 Templeport lads who won the Junior Championship you mean? 2 of whom have never played County Football?

I know for a fact that the management team or their representatives were present at all U21 games last year. I don't know where you're getting your information from.

Your last post is indicative of the biggest problem in Cavan football. Every player who is not on the panel is suddenly an All Star. We hear it every year, we seemingly have a consistent run of managers at senior and underage level who are hell bent on picking everyone but the best in the county.

Too many people in Cavan sit in front of their TV and computer screen and say that they know better than the men who have actually gone out and managed teams and won titles. Too many experts who wouldn't know whether the ball is pumped or stuffed.

JonSmith (Cavan) - Posts: 1446 - 03/02/2016 12:27:21    1821864

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Oh Joan
Looks like I've hit a nerve here.
I know for a fact that the best are not selected because of personal preferences by management. I was at some of the u21 games last year and didn't spot any of the management team. in fact I was at one game where a minor out classed a player currently on the senior panel in a head to head battle.

Its not a personal thing with me. I have no son's, nephews or relations playing the game. I don't play anymore myself so its completely unbiased.
But I do know that young lads are not getting a fair crack of the whip, some being treated as second class citizens.
I don't "claim" to more than management but on occasions when I see some of the selections I realise that I actually "do" know more.

I don't think that every player should be on the panel. In fact some of my own club players wouldn't get a look in, but I do know of others who are more than capable of performing at this level but because it is a closed shop, are not getting a chance.

There should be open trials every year, and clubs should be asked to send players interested in trialling. It would only take up 2 weekends to look at the selection and narrow it down.

Instead we have nepotism at its best ( this means the practice among those with power or influence of favouring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs, or in this case sticking to familiar faces to play )

Incidentally I don't sit in front of the TV or Computer thinking I know best. I'm actively involved with my club and community. I watch enough club games to know talent when I see it and enough county games to know injustice when I see it. So much so that it's actually made me cynical about county football.
Look at the GAA in general. Its being run by a gang of older men, living in the past, afraid of change. This applies from grass roots right up to Croke Park.
I love the game, but its a tainted love at present !

Perhaps you should take a step back, remove the blinkers, open your eyes and really see what is happening.

And your final point , we all know that a ball is stuffed !!

FrDougalMaguire (Cavan) - Posts: 152 - 03/02/2016 15:19:45    1821959

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Hi FrDougalMaguire and JonSmith:

Reference: Debate on the Hastings cup and player selections.

FrDougalMaguire is spot on in his reflection and summary of the selection process in Cavan football presently and last years minor's miserable performance was indeed a shambles and the management team are still in place and doing the very same thing in 2016.

I raised this very point in 2015 in relation to the minor management and the very man "JonSmith" made the very same comments to valid points raised.

I actually dismissed JonSmith as it would appear that JonSmith is a strong member of the establishment (Cavan Co Board) and has a very narrow brief to push back on any negative comments about any team management or selection policy within the county that appears on any media forum's.

JonSmith has made points made in this debate that resemble those from a script as comments are very closely worded !!! and his comments about sitting behind a computer are rich coming from one who has made over 1,200 comments.

There needs to be a review of underage management teams in Cavan and let's start selecting and playing the best footballers in Cavan rather than established development squad players (generally on the squad based on politics and a profile made when U12/14).

In relation to the U21's Hastings cup final it was obviously favouritism that a few players appeared on the starting 15 having not participated in previous matches (games that were actually WON).

FrDougalMaguire said that JonSmith should:

"Perhaps you should take a step back, remove the blinkers, open your eyes and really see what is happening."

I agree and maybe JonSmith should also have a "snickers"

Before you ask I have no relations, friends, friends children, or any connection with U21 but have a real passion for Cavan football

PS. I also coach at all age groups just in case JonSmith throws this up as a smoke screen.

experiencedblu (Cavan) - Posts: 19 - 05/02/2016 18:28:27    1822690

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Doug,

I'm happy you went to the trouble of googling exactly what nepotism means, but you still added in a line at the end that didn't belong. Nepotism has nothing to do with "usual faces" the word means giving favour to relatives/friends. Is there a word for giving favour to usual faces? I'm not sure. But nepotism certainly isn't the correct term. Unless Niall Lynch has a large representation of his relatives among the 50 odd panel that I don't know about.

Again I can only speak from what I know. I know for a fact management were at the U21 games. I know this first hand. You on the other hand are basing your argument on saying you were at the games and didn't see them.... A barely credible argument, were you on the gate for every game and ID every person going in?!

I know a handful of the players on the panel. None of them had ever met Niall Lynch prior to him becoming U21 manager. Yet somehow their positions on the team are being questioned by you because they are connected with the manager that they have never met somehow. There are players on the panel that did not play Minor or U21 for Cavan before, how does that fit in with your "usual faces" argument? You have continually ignored that point.

You are ranting against the old men being in charge in the GAA but you want these men in the clubs to decide who to send in for trials. Is this not where your nepotism would come into play?

I don't know Niall Lynch, but can I ask you what he would have to gain by not bringing in the best players in the county? Do you think he wants anything but to win the U21 title? Who specifically would he be pleasing by bringing in these "usual faces" if there was better players out there?? You seem to think you have a better knowledge of football and talent that Niall Lynch and his management team. His CV off the top of my head boasts a few Senior County titles with different clubs and a Vocational Schools All Ireland. I presume yours stacks up as good or better than that?

Experiencedblue, where do you get the time to coach at all age groups?! Is that U-8 right up to Senior? I may not have the genius football brain that both of you internet warriors have but I would suggest you stop coaching at "all age groups" and focus your efforts on just one, hopefully with the county team so we can will an All Ireland or two.
We should inform the county board that there are two of the finest talent spotters from Kingscourt to Blacklion on the internet with the novel idea of bringing in the multiple all stars dotted around the county who have remained undiscovered as yet. It's time to stop appointing people who don't want to win titles and let these pair take the reins. We're right behind you lads.

JonSmith (Cavan) - Posts: 1446 - 05/02/2016 20:42:38    1822735

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JonSmith said:

"Experiencedblue, where do you get the time to coach at all age groups?! Is that U-8 right up to Senior? I may not have the genius football brain that both of you internet warriors have but I would suggest you stop coaching at "all age groups" and focus your efforts on just one, hopefully with the county team so we can will an All Ireland or two."

JonSmith - it might be time to step back from the screen as it would appear that you, at this stage, "can't see the wood from the trees" !!!

This link might assist in terms of understanding the phrase:

http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/edu/2002/02/19/stories/2002021900120201.htm

A point of clarification:

At no stage did I indicate that I coach all age groups at the one time (I didn't provide any time frame) and anybody with a sense of logic would work this out before making this nonsense statement.

experiencedblu (Cavan) - Posts: 19 - 11/02/2016 10:44:47    1824612

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just to point out that the expression is "can't see the wood FOR the trees" and not "can't see the wook FROM the trees"

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5227 - 11/02/2016 11:10:40    1824624

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